Spirited News & Observations II -- NGE/Baxter

[englanddg]

Pretending for a moment that the evil fanboi hating, magic killing, dream crushing Spirit doesn't exist in this argument, PhotoDave has actually worked for (and continues to do so?) newspapers. It seems to me, that his opinion should carry a great deal of weight in a discussion about ethics in the newspaper industry. But maybe, that's just me.

As for Spirit, his track record speaks for itself. I don't understand why folks feel the need to fight him. Embrace Spirited Change, it is good for the soul.


So Spirit, you were saying something about dropping some Uni news? :looksaroun:

"ethics in the newspaper industry"

Lets think about that statement and think politically.

 

[WDW1974]

Her last post was stupid, please don't make me look it up. Her blog as a whole is silly...it tells future visitors nothing, and offers nothing outside of useless drivel. What are you so concerned about? Obviously, Disney likes what they are getting, otherwise they wouldn't be cutting checks.

So, as I said in a previous post, none of your business.

First, it isn't HER BLOG. It is The Disney Parks Blog. Do you understand what it is? What it is supposed to be?

And this is MY business because I choose it to be, because I work in the field. If it doesn't interest you, yet you insist on posting in it and stirring things up, one can only wonder: is this guy trolling? Does he have a pony in the race? If you've read the thread, then I've been crystal clear in my problems with Blondie and if you haven't then I'd suggest you go back because I'm not repeating myself for everyone who suddenly joins in.

Why? It's not like she is reporting on anything well...she isn't reporting at all. She's just blogging stuff straight from Disney marketing...and since she's a reasonably (though not all that) attractive middle aged white woman, she appeals to the demographic who has the money and time to take Disney trips and convince Daddy to help pay for them...the eternal soccer mom.

Read what I and Dave and Lee and others have written ...

Again, with the arrogance. My pay grade is also quite removed from anyone at Celebration Place, I suspect, but I don't consider myself superior because of it.

How do you equate my pay level with arrogance. You were the one who said that the whole issue here was that Blondie won a contract over Dave and I. YOU.

And what if I consider myself superior to many folks who work for Disney? Maybe I have my reasons ... like I dunno ... say reality!

So, you've never taken a job where you haven't done that exact job before with success. I doubt that.

You can doubt it all you want. I don't have to lie to get hired. And I've worked on three continents. ... But you're playing the trolling/semantics game by using the word 'exact' ... no two jobs are ever the exact same ... maybe they're 97% the same, so does that make me a liar in your book ? On par with the great unwashed masses?

Ethics in journalism? Hahaha, do you even watch the news anymore? And, as far as PR, even Walt himself "embellished". Just read about the opening days of Disneyland. Or really, many of Walt's ventures. Embellishment is part of selling. And selling bring money, and money means results.

Yeah. Believe it or not from someone who actually has decades of experience in the field, but there most certainly are ethics. And most journalism isn't biased (real journalism, not the crap you get from FOX, CNBC, MSNBC and CNN -- no the international version as they are still quite good).

And, please, you want to use Walt to justify lying? That's your best stuff and you aren't just playing?

If you are willing you have an honest discussion about what you've been ranting about for a week, do so. Otherwise, leave it alone. The whole thread is turning into a rant.

Well, if two regulars hadn't decided that hair-splitting wasn't more important than ethics, then maybe it wouldn't seem like a rant. But I'm always amused when someone joins a conversation late at night (damn well knowing no moderating is going on pretty much from 10 p.m. Eastern until likely 10 a.m.) and wants to chat all night ... just wants to understand.

Guess what? If you can't get what the issues are by reading the last 15 pages, then you're never going to ... so you can stay here and about the thread or you can move on to something else.

Who is playing semantics? I chose my words very carefully, as I respect both you and Dave, and merely wish to understand why this upsets you so much.

And we've already explained it. Multiple times. In multiple posts. In multiple ways. You either get it or you don't. I'm sorry, but I can't explain it better than I already have.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Pretending for a moment that the evil fanboi hating, magic killing, dream crushing Spirit doesn't exist in this argument, PhotoDave has actually worked for (and continues to do so?) newspapers. It seems to me, that his opinion should carry a great deal of weight in a discussion about ethics in the newspaper industry. But maybe, that's just me.

As for Spirit, his track record speaks for itself. I don't understand why folks feel the need to fight him. Embrace Spirited Change, it is good for the soul.


So Spirit, you were saying something about dropping some Uni news? :looksaroun:

Thanks for the kind words, Henry. I work for myself these days as a contract photographer as several news organizations including the NYT are clients. Suffice to say, I've worked pretty hard to include NYT as a client and to see someone misrepresent themselves in this fashion is rather hard to swallow.

I will not speak bad of my former employer nor my days as a daily photojournalist other than the industry needs to change and page hits/hype is not how you go about it. People are drawn to quality.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

People in Burbank will be scratching their heads as they read this thread tomorrow morning.

 

[WDW1974]

So Spirit, you were saying something about dropping some Uni news? :looksaroun:

Maybe I'll be able to get to that this week, Henry ... ya know if I don't have to spend hours picking wings off of flies while ignoring the infestation.

But, suffice to say, LOTS of UNI action coming.

 

[englanddg]

And we've already explained it. Multiple times. In multiple posts. In multiple ways. You either get it or you don't. I'm sorry, but I can't explain it better than I already have.

I could respond to each and every one of your statements...but this is really the best. If you can't explain it better than you already have over several days, then you can't explain it at all to someone who doesn't give a flip what you are ranting (and yes, this is a rant) about.

If you've explained it so well, why are you still defending it and resorting to ad homs to do so. At least Dave is (or at least was) willing to discuss it. You, on the other hand, just seem bitter. I still don't get your issue with her, unless there was some personal slight (such as I suggested with a lost contract) that would make you hate her so much.

I don't defend her, I don't follow her blog, I have no friggin idea who she is, outside of the fact that you hate her and insist on insulting her.

I come back to...what do you hope to accomplish?

 

[englanddg]

Thanks for the kind words, Henry. I work for myself these days as a contract photographer as several news organizations including the NYT are clients. Suffice to say, I've worked pretty hard to include NYT as a client and to see someone misrepresent themselves in this fashion is rather hard to swallow.

Dave, having worked in theater, I can completely agree with this. I totally get the argument that she misrepresented herself by saying she worked for the NYT.

 

[PhotoDave219]

"ethics in the newspaper industry"

Lets think about that statement and think politically.

My background came primarily from community papers; they had no political bias other than trying to get people to advertise in the paper. Spot News - fires, shootings, death, etc., really dont have a political inclination one way or the other although we stopped covering car accidents unless it was "newsworthy." By that I mean "screwed up traffic for six hours" or was fatal or otherwise.

I don't never gifts more than a bottle of water unless it was something that everyone was getting. (Bowl Games give out a 'media gift' which explains why everyone clamors to be on the sidelines I suppose. People love free stuff). I never took free food, especially when I was covering the restaurant reviews. Always insisted I pay if I chose to eat there.

I owe it to the readers and the community as a whole to be honest with everything and as straight down the middle as I could be. When I quote people, i record it and make sure my subject knows they're being quoted. I dont pad my mileage. I never trespassed into Trayvon Marin's apt complex as I was asked not to. (Others did, I didn't. There wasn't a photo there a month after it happened). I dont photoshop things out of my photos and try to be as representative of the story with them as possible. (I ran across some sports photographers the other week who dont get that concept).

Its not a hard profession to be honest in when youre on the front lines; its the editors and the people who sit behind desks all day that clearly have a hard time with the concept. The Jason Blairs of the world who are looking for glory and awards are people who drive me nuts, mainly because if you work hard, the awards come without question. There are thousands of journalists who are ridiculously ethical (like Chris Branch of the Wilmington, Del., paper who is a very ethical sports journalist... just to show I'm not picking on the sports guys) and do their jobs day in, day out. The unethical ones get caught and theyre the ones whom get the attention.

I don't advertise my politically leanings, I don't discuss it with campaign staff nor my editors. I cover the candidate or politician equally whether I like the guy or not.

At the end of the day my readers and community trusted me to be an advocate for them and represent them at whatever story I was covering. I owe it to them to be truthful and straightforward with my conduct and how I report the story. Since I started working in a contract basis for national publications and wire services, I guess I owe it to everyone. My work has gone globally at times and I'm proud to do it.

One last thought: The pressure to be accurate and honest will always outweigh the pressures of being first.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Dave, having worked in theater, I can completely agree with this. I totally get the argument that she misrepresented herself by saying she worked for the NYT.

No worries. Appreciated. That's exactly my problem with this situation.

Also when it comes to theatres, I look for two things: lighting & side doors I can discretely slip in and out of.
Nothing worse than trying to photograph a stage production and the actors miss their marks or the lights are overly low.

 

[PhotoDave219]

People in Burbank will be scratching their heads as they read this thread tomorrow morning.

I'd be horribly surprised if Burbank knew or cared who I was.

Alas I would love to work with them in a contract basis (like Bricker does).

 

[englanddg]

My background came primarily from community papers; they had no political bias other than trying to get people to advertise in the paper. Spot News - fires, shootings, death, etc., really dont have a political inclination one way or the other although we stopped covering car accidents unless it was "newsworthy." By that I mean "screwed up traffic for six hours" or was fatal or otherwise.

I don't never gifts more than a bottle of water unless it was something that everyone was getting. (Bowl Games give out a 'media gift' which explains why everyone clamors to be on the sidelines I suppose. People love free stuff). I never took free food, especially when I was covering the restaurant reviews. Always insisted I pay if I chose to eat there.

I owe it to the readers and the community as a whole to be honest with everything and as straight down the middle as I could be. When I quote people, i record it and make sure my subject knows they're being quoted. I dont pad my mileage. I never trespassed into Trayvon Marin's apt complex as I was asked not to. (Others did, I didn't. There wasn't a photo there a month after it happened). I dont photoshop things out of my photos and try to be as representative of the story with them as possible. (I ran across some sports photographers the other week who dont get that concept).

Its not a hard profession to be honest in when youre on the front lines; its the editors and the people who sit behind desks all day that clearly have a hard time with the concept. The Jason Blairs of the world who are looking for glory and awards are people who drive me nuts, mainly because if you work hard, the awards come without question. There are thousands of journalists who are ridiculously ethical (like Chris Branch of the Wilmington, Del., paper who is a very ethical sports journalist... just to show I'm not picking on the sports guys) and do their jobs day in, day out. The unethical ones get caught and theyre the ones whom get the attention.

I don't advertise my politically leanings, I don't discuss it with campaign staff nor my editors. I cover the candidate or politician equally whether I like the guy or not.

At the end of the day my readers and community trusted me to be an advocate for them and represent them at whatever story I was covering. I owe it to them to be truthful and straightforward with my conduct and how I report the story. Since I started working in a contract basis for national publications and wire services, I guess I owe it to everyone. My work has gone globally at times and I'm proud to do it.

One last thought: The pressure to be accurate and honest will always outweigh the pressures of being first.

I found that quite eloquent.

I just wish other media felt the same...the reality is...many don't. Many who make news don't, and most who shape opinion hide away from being journalists using terms like "comedians, commentary, or marketing"...

 

[kpilcher]

Ethics in journalism? Hahaha, do you even watch the news anymore? And, as far as PR, even Walt himself embellished"


Who is playing semantics? I chose my words very carefully, as I respect both you and Dave, and merely wish to understand why this upsets you so much.

Well, sir. As someone who very rarely posts I can add something here. See, like Dave, I am a journalist. I don't just watch news I bring it to people every day. I am a tv news producer. It is a profession I chose over many, better paying, others because ethics DO matter. I don't know,personally any of the people in this thread. I do know that both Spirit & Dave are right that ethics matter. Even in PR. Even writing for the Disney Parks blog. As someone in the tv news biz in Orlando, I realize Disney (and Uni and Sea World and even FunSpot)'s PR and marketing and public affairs people (very different jobs ) have to look out for the best interests of their employer. But ya know what. If I know someone has a track record of being honest with me as much as possible it makes a big difference in how I approach or write things. Not saying it would stop me or my station on anything truly big or important but on a lot of other things trust matters. I'm going to be ( and was) aggressive but fair when a monorail operator dies in a preventable crash or a trainer is killed by a whale. But most real reporting on the tourism industry isn't that dire. Back to my point, though if I don't think I can trust Disney's messenger, I'm much less likely to listen to what they have to say on Disney's behalf. I'm blessed. Most of my contacts industry-wide are as honest and forthcoming as they can be. But I tell you this. Real journalists do not ever forget when they are blatantly deceived. I have never talked to nor met the woman in question. But knowing she misrepresented herself ( assuming it is true) as being a journalist I doubt seriously I'd listen to anything she has to say on or off the record. Most of the people who work to bring you newscasts do value integrity. And if I don't listen to what she is saying than chances are my audience won't hear what her employer wants them to hear. Right or Wrong. Social Media is a newish animal. But if everyone can say anything truth be damned it will, long term, burn them.

 

[George]

It sounds like job openings may be a' happening and Disney, may I be the first to let you know that I wouldn't mind a stress free few years as a social media Disney , whoops, I meant PR person while my wife earns the big bucks. I will even supply samples of my writings that in some cases of have taken years to publish whilst minor details have been argued and hashed out with my colleagues. Finally, and most importantly, I can supply a non-Tough Mudder picture that will certainly draw the attentions of ladies and fanbois alike. Thanks for your consideration in this matter...(I could also manage your stable of internetz writing fillies, but I'm not sure the wife would approve) :lookaroun

 

[Darth Sidious]

Folks come here to read you, Lee. ... Just like they come to read me, just like they come to read a handful of others.

That's not bravado, that's fact.

Agreed, anyone who doesn't... Look at views on a 74 thread and compare them to the rest. This isn't opinion, it's fact. For better or for worse, when running a forum you pray to get someone who draws numbers.

 

[Darth Sidious]

Does nobody remember this? ... http://www.cinemablend.com/pop/Yahoo-CEO-Fired-Lying-Resume-42461.html

 

[MattM]

I NEVER sit in the 'cheap seats' anywhere ... ever. But that game was boring as hell ... gonna be a long season for the Marlins, although it's great to see Juan Pierre back home.

Boring depends on which side you were on, I suppose.

I'm pretty sure that was you, though. The group of guys with marlins jerseys and Mickey Mouse ears on a couple rows behind you kinda have it away.

 

[Nemo14]

My background came primarily from community papers; they had no political bias other than trying to get people to advertise in the paper. Spot News - fires, shootings, death, etc., really dont have a political inclination one way or the other although we stopped covering car accidents unless it was "newsworthy." By that I mean "screwed up traffic for six hours" or was fatal or otherwise.

I don't never gifts more than a bottle of water unless it was something that everyone was getting. (Bowl Games give out a 'media gift' which explains why everyone clamors to be on the sidelines I suppose. People love free stuff). I never took free food, especially when I was covering the restaurant reviews. Always insisted I pay if I chose to eat there.

I owe it to the readers and the community as a whole to be honest with everything and as straight down the middle as I could be. When I quote people, i record it and make sure my subject knows they're being quoted. I dont pad my mileage. I never trespassed into Trayvon Marin's apt complex as I was asked not to. (Others did, I didn't. There wasn't a photo there a month after it happened). I dont photoshop things out of my photos and try to be as representative of the story with them as possible. (I ran across some sports photographers the other week who dont get that concept).

Its not a hard profession to be honest in when youre on the front lines; its the editors and the people who sit behind desks all day that clearly have a hard time with the concept. The Jason Blairs of the world who are looking for glory and awards are people who drive me nuts, mainly because if you work hard, the awards come without question. There are thousands of journalists who are ridiculously ethical (like Chris Branch of the Wilmington, Del., paper who is a very ethical sports journalist... just to show I'm not picking on the sports guys) and do their jobs day in, day out. The unethical ones get caught and theyre the ones whom get the attention.

I don't advertise my politically leanings, I don't discuss it with campaign staff nor my editors. I cover the candidate or politician equally whether I like the guy or not.

At the end of the day my readers and community trusted me to be an advocate for them and represent them at whatever story I was covering. I owe it to them to be truthful and straightforward with my conduct and how I report the story. Since I started working in a contract basis for national publications and wire services, I guess I owe it to everyone. My work has gone globally at times and I'm proud to do it.

One last thought: The pressure to be accurate and honest will always outweigh the pressures of being first.

Well, sir. As someone who very rarely posts I can add something here. See, like Dave, I am a journalist. I don't just watch news I bring it to people every day. I am a tv news producer. It is a profession I chose over many, better paying, others because ethics DO matter. I don't know,personally any of the people in this thread. I do know that both Spirit & Dave are right that ethics matter. Even in PR. Even writing for the Disney Parks blog. As someone in the tv news biz in Orlando, I realize Disney (and Uni and Sea World and even FunSpot)'s PR and marketing and public affairs people (very different jobs ) have to look out for the best interests of their employer. But ya know what. If I know someone has a track record of being honest with me as much as possible it makes a big difference in how I approach or write things. Not saying it would stop me or my station on anything truly big or important but on a lot of other things trust matters. I'm going to be ( and was) aggressive but fair when a monorail operator dies in a preventable crash or a trainer is killed by a whale. But most real reporting on the tourism industry isn't that dire. Back to my point, though if I don't think I can trust Disney's messenger, I'm much less likely to listen to what they have to say on Disney's behalf. I'm blessed. Most of my contacts industry-wide are as honest and forthcoming as they can be. But I tell you this. Real journalists do not ever forget when they are blatantly deceived. I have never talked to nor met the woman in question. But knowing she misrepresented herself ( assuming it is true) as being a journalist I doubt seriously I'd listen to anything she has to say on or off the record. Most of the people who work to bring you newscasts do value integrity. And if I don't listen to what she is saying than chances are my audience won't hear what her employer wants them to hear. Right or Wrong. Social Media is a newish animal. But if everyone can say anything truth be damned it will, long term, burn them.

As a fairly cynical person who stopped reading our newspaper years ago because I couldn't stand the "slant", I just wanted to thank you both and '74 too for showing integrity and honesty in a profession where neither is championed enough. Nice to know it still exists.

 

[MattM]

No. Trust me, Dave.

It won't end because a few people here have agendas of their own and will keep going and going ...

Do you realize how often you accuse those who disagree with you of having an agenda? Kinda makes it seem like YOU may have....an agenda.

The fact that you get so angry when people disagree with you on your beloved thread makes me ask just one simple question...

You mad, bro?

 

[djlaosc]

Reading this thread is making me miss "The Newsroom"...



...so, about that Universal news?

 

[jt04]

I would never pay to be a contributor to a fan site's message boards. ... But since my threads tend to drive a lot of clicks/traffic here, I think I more than earn my keep. No offense, Frank, but I don't think people come here to see you gushing over Iger and the redevelopment of a mall.

This thread has had about 10,000 views in the last 24 hours. I'd say there's quite a bit of value there. You know any other Disney poster here who can drive those numbers and isn't compensated and doesn't seek compensation?

I've actually thought of making an offer to buy WDWMAGIC from Steve (or 75% of it) and the valuation of the site I've come up with is quite impressive. I don't really want to be in the Disney fan site business, but ... if I do ... I'd rather own a known commodity and one that gets real numbers, not the made up kind that most of the social media whores use to get Disney freebies.

But I do know my value here ... JT ... and I'm fairly certain that you do too.

Go ask my pal Doobie how his message boards are doing ... oh, and ask what happened to Tales From The LP and my pal Lee MacDonald (who I do miss) while you're at it.

And I am sure people who refill their water cups with soda at McBurger's can rationalize those actions too.

And those tanks at Marlin's Park are NOT complimentary Sushi bars either. I know you thought nobody was watching. The eye in the sky sees all.

PS- it is clear the only reason you would buy a majority interest in WDWMagic is to ban me and Lee and bring back EE and Merf.