Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[CTXRover]

Maybe I missed something, but even if Disney ultimately plans to use your data or your purchase history at the parks to sell to third party companies for marketing purposes, won't I have to agree to that? In basically anything you sign up for today, you're giving the option whether you want to receive offers from companies outside, in this case, the Walt Disney company. What makes us think that we won't have option here too. Their own privacy policy mentions they will not sell your personal informatiom to third parties without your permission. I honestly don't believe if you don't opt in to have your info used in such a way that you won't be able to use Mymagic+/FP+.

 

[Lee]

If it is the first option, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but if it's the latter I'm not sure how molding your Disney vacation around your likes is a bad thing for the consumer? It certainly is a good thing for the company. They would make a lot of money. Am I missing something?

Of course they aren't selling personal info like socials or card numbers, nobody has seriously argued that ther are planning to do that.
But they do now, and will continue to, sell/share more general data with marketers and third-parties. That will be a key component of NextGen's profit-generating side.

Bottom line that gets lost in all the bickering...they aren't doing this for purely guest benefit. It is a profit-making scheme, with some aspects that can be spun as being "enhancements" for guests.

I don't want to book all the details of my trips through their nosy- site, I don't want a FP or ADR months in advance, i dont want a (collectable!) bracelet, and I care nothing for paying for everything with an RFID chip.

I want better maintenance and new, fresh attractions. Period. No need to reinvent the wheel, or fix what ain't broke.

 

[Lee]

I honestly don't believe if you don't opt in to have your info used in such a way that you won't be able to use Mymagic+/FP+.

I believe that very thing. Wholeheartedly.
It is, or will be, a condition for using the system. You either "opt-in" and get all the benefits, and agree to have your data shared, or "opt-out" and suffer the consequences.
Opting-in will act as accepting the terms. I'm confident of this.

 

[flynnibus]

Let's leave Corless out. He loves the attention because he never reads here, after all (none of them do!) Let's just agree that if Disney hires him for any position after what he pulled this weekend that he was doing something for them all along, right? Can we at least agree on something as common sense as that?

I guess - I don't read his site at all so it wasn't until you mentioned him by name did I know which site you were referring to over the last day or so. All the 'site that must not be named..' was getting annoying

I am not attacking you. But you keep repeating yourself like a drone. Or, yes, a BRAND ADVOCATE. Why don't you come up with something new and different.

It would sound different if I didn't have to keep correcting the same misinformation. The song remains the same because others keep playing the same broken record. It's getting pretty close to the 'Avatar threshold' where one just needs to stay out of those threads all together and let the people beat each other up on the same crap ad nauseum.

You like this. Great. Many of us, don't

I'm not even sure I like it - but I don't have to like it to keep things on a level keel and correct those who can't. I think the net result of FP+ inputs will mean FP+ will be available virtually anytime you want it.. but I think the net effect on non FP+ waits is going to be a net negative effect on visiting attractions.

Today I see FP as a net positive. I think the sum of the parts for FP+ will cross the threshold into a net negative on ride waits as a whole. The other aspects I don't have an issue with largely and I think there will be benefits to guests. I just don't know if for me, I will get a net positive. That is hard to say when there are so many variables Disney has the strings to and its going to be hard to see when they pull them and change things. So much will be behind the scenes in how they massage availability, quantities, etc. The amount of MISinformation out there about what they are doing will probably be just as annoying as any byproduct of the program itself.

And I'm sure you don't think any eyes at Disney are reading this thread, do you? Eyes that know exactly who we both are and are respective positions?

I hope they are reading.. but who knows what they take away. Even with objective material out there.. you can't force them to take it away as such. I doubt anyone cares who flynnibus is.. but it's not a secret. If my posts make the WDW1974/Spirit morning brief folder.. then I can sleep well knowing I keep good company.

You don't feel good-looking enough to me!

I'm like Mick Jagger.. butt ugly but still got the special sauce

I don't like cinnamon rolls period. So I can't help you. But I have had the MK ones and they're tasty, but huge (about the only food item that is oversized at WDW!)

The wife is a coffee drinker.. so I needed something from the cafe. Since all the anti-starbucks people are so upset about the potential loss of their 'buns.. I thought I'd give it a try. Meh.. nice but nothing to goto FL for!

 

[CTXRover]

I believe that very thing. Wholeheartedly.
It is, or will be, a condition for using the system. You either "opt-in" and get all the benefits, and agree to have your data shared, or "opt-out" and suffer the consequences.
Opting-in will act as accepting the terms. I'm confident of this.

Just for my own curiosity, is this a published fact or your opinion? You may very well be right and I will need to read the terms and agreement more carefully. I fully suspect by using my magic plus I need to agree that they can "track" me, but am i also agreeing to have my information sold to third parties? That seems to go against their own privacy policy.

EDIT: Per Tom Staggs on DPB regarding a question on privacy and using information for marketing "Ensuring the security of our guest’s information is obviously very important to us and no one is more focused on this than we are. Everything is opt in and guests will have the opportunity to choose what information they share with us. Nothing is more important to us than protecting that information.". May just be executive BS, but I don't know.

 

[flynnibus]

Of course they aren't selling personal info like socials or card numbers, nobody has seriously argued that ther are planning to do that.

So how does one justify all the complaints about invasion of privacy if the stuff everyone is discussing is aggregated or anonymozied data? The truth is your post didn't make a distinction.. which lets the uninformed take it for what they want it to be.. and the cycle continues.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Absolutely. Disney doesn't have to 'sell' anything when it comes to their third-party sponsors who are 'part of the Disney Family' ... Buy seven Dole Whips in two days? Suddenly, you might get offers from Dole for canned fruit or frozen treats when you get home.

The problem with any data derived from Next Gen is that it is based on stuff that happens exclusively on property, or via whatever Disney portal. You won't necessarily get data regarding what car a guest might want to buy, what type of laundry detergent they like . . . but you will get actionable intelligence for Disney regarding re-ride-ability of certain attractions for the same guest/family over multiple visits over the years. And no doubt those anonymous guest surveyors could ask you specific questions, or at least record your answers in way linked to your I.D..

The real world, internet surfing, offers more choices than Disney, on the property your brain is checked at the front gate and you don't have nearly as many options, hence Disney learns much, much less about your specific tastes of products not sold in the park.

What are they going to do, sell Coke or Pepsi data showing that guests overwhelming "prefer" Coke products for some secret reason, while in the parks?

Since Next Gen is a premium product, I very doubt Disney would allow marketers to contact you, even if "targeted", and of course the media will be watching what Disney does with the data very closely.

 

[Lee]

Just for my own curiosity, is this a published fact or your opinion? You may very well be right and I will need to read the terms and agreement more carefully. I fully suspect by using my magic plus I need to agree that they can "track" me, but am i also agreeing to have my information sold to third parties? That seems to against their own privacy policy.

It isn't published fact, it's my educated opinion based on the info I've been exposed to thus far. I could be wrong...but I'd be surprised.

The privacy policy can be changed/amended at any time.
I think it currently just says that they can't share/sell your data without permission. My bet is that we will see some language along the lines of "Use of the system implies consent to..."

So how does one justify all the complaints about invasion of privacy if the stuff everyone is discussing is aggregated or anonymozied data? The truth is your post didn't make a distinction.. which lets the uninformed take it for what they want it to be.. and the cycle continues.

Then my bad for not being more specific. I certainly did not intend to mislead anyone.
I would think that the privacy concerns relate to the idea of physical tracking and the sharing/sale of "personal data", by which I mean name, email address, address, buying habits, etc. (But certainly not identity theft type material such as socials and account numbers.)

 

[awoogala]

Just for my own curiosity, is this a published fact or your opinion? You may very well be right and I will need to read the terms and agreement more carefully. I fully suspect by using my magic plus I need to agree that they can "track" me, but am i also agreeing to have my information sold to third parties? That seems to go against their own privacy policy.

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/media/park-experience-terms-and-conditions.html
read it very carefully.

 

[ToTBellHop]

So how does one justify all the complaints about invasion of privacy if the stuff everyone is discussing is aggregated or anonymozied data? The truth is your post didn't make a distinction.. which lets the uninformed take it for what they want it to be.. and the cycle continues.

I don't believe it would be wholly anonymous data. They could include email addresses, physical address, phone # pretty easily and wham, you start getting coupons for Dasani that you didn't really want. At least when this is "free," the argument can be made that both Disney and the guest see perks. When they move to a tiered system where those who pay more get more Fastpasses, I will be more annoyed (e.g. "Now I'm paying for something that used to be free AND you are selling info about me? Screw that...I'll be at Gringotts").

 

[CTXRover]

http://disneyworld.disney.go.com/media/park-experience-terms-and-conditions.html
read it very carefully.

I did, and directly from the Disney Experience FAQs on privacy:

"We will only share information about you that is automatically collected through your use of the RF Device with third-parties for their marketing uses if you elect that we do so."

I guess this can always change, but for now it seems my info won't be used for third party marketing without my permission.

Source:https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/faq/my-disney-experience/privacy-policy/

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

But they do now, and will continue to, sell/share more general data with marketers and third-parties. That will be a key component of NextGen's profit-generating side.

. . .

I want better maintenance and new, fresh attractions. Period. No need to reinvent the wheel, or fix what ain't broke.

I think you underestimate how much generalized guest data is worth, and furthermore, why Disney would part with data which is proprietary in the sense that it involves details of park operations that Mickey might not necessarily want telegraphed to the outside world.

Disney has been collecting such proprietary data for decades—in the form of daily ride counts, and guest satisfaction surveys, as well as how many plush Poohs are sold over Piglet each year. Ride counts at CBJ, Pooh's sold, dinning reservations at Le Cellier, . . . so much of this data is Disney specific, and has little value for the outside larger marketing world.

NextGen is a game that offers perks. Plain and simple, get guests hooked on making fast pass reservations months ahead of time, and whatever else Disney can cook up. Making the paperwork at the parks smoother is where the money will be made, especially allowing teenagers with RFID bracelets to run amok buying churros and plush Merida dolls.

We all know what you and WDW1974 want (and what the rest of us would like), a couple E Tickets added to each park, and the proverbial fresh coat of paint. Well, slamming NextGen won't make this come any faster as I think NextGen is going to catch on with seasonal guests big time, and the money is already spent.

APers already know how to smooze the system, and they don't like seeing this new group of premium guests getting perks they won't, while having fun doing it. I'm all for everybody being on equal footing, but I've also enjoyed Front of Line Passes and more perks than the vast majority of guests, so I think it is OK to let everybody have a similar sort of fun.

Eventually, though, total ride capacity issues at MK, and other Disney parks, will catch up with Burbank due to steady attendance growth and a relative lack of attractions.

 

[ToTBellHop]

I did, and directly from the Disney Experience FAQs on privacy: "
We will only share information about you that is automatically collected through your use of the RF Device with third-parties for their marketing uses if you elect that we do so."

And presumably in the near future, we will see explicit notice that use of the new site, app, and/or bracelets provides said consent. In addition to the consents we already provide on entry.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

"We will only share information about you that is automatically collected through your use of the RF Device with third-parties for their marketing uses if you elect that we do so."

I think that the big angle of the RF Device is that you can use your credit card wirelessly to buy stuff . . . Obviously, Disney hopes that this will enable impulse shoppers of degrees, and I happen to think it will.

 

[CTXRover]

And presumably in the near future, we will see explicit notice that use of the new site, app, and/or bracelets provides said consent. In addition to the consents we already provide on entry.

But beyond the possibility that it "could" or perhaps even been discussed or considered, nothing released thus far seems to suggest that. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious (and concerned).

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

But beyond the possibility that it "could" or perhaps even been discussed or considered, nothing released thus far seems to suggest that. I'm not trying to be argumentative, just curious (and concerned).

Given that minors will be involved, Disney obviously wants to maintain their sterling reputation with kids, they won't be sending out info about specific kids to anybody, and probably not even homogenized info as it really isn't worth that much to businesses outside of the parks, especially since social media offers so many opportunities for advertising and data mining anyway.

It would be like McDonalds tracking the names of kids who bought Happy Meals and selling their names and Happy Meal interests to marketing, as well as with "data collected in our restaurants of patrons activities." Nobody would really want to buy any of this data, or email lists.

 

[awoogala]

NextGen is a game that offers perks. Plain and simple, get guests hooked on making fast pass reservations months ahead of time, and whatever else Disney can cook up. Making the paperwork at the parks smoother is where the money will be made, especially allowing teenagers with RFID bracelets to run amok buying churros and plush Merida dolls.
d other Disney parks, will catch up with Burbank due to steady attendance growth and a relative lack of attractions.

did you notice anyone over the age of 10 automatically has charge abilities unless you read that fine print and remove that option?
and the rules of the app will "prevail" over the website rules, and that they can be amended at any time?
Not to mention the kids can receive text messages if parents give permission.
You don't think there are many companies out there that would love to jump on a gravy train for access to little johnny and jane's cell phone for direct marketing?
Innocently, a parent lets their kid get the texts in the park, since they are "just disney texts", and that number is now in Disney's hands, and can easily be used as a direct line. they don't have to sell it, just add more companies to their "trusted select businesses"

 

[CTXRover]

Absolutely. Disney doesn't have to 'sell' anything when it comes to their third-party sponsors who are 'part of the Disney Family' ... Buy seven Dole Whips in two days? Suddenly, you might get offers from Dole for canned fruit or frozen treats when you get home.

This is VERY simple.

Is that really true though? Per Disney's own privacy policy, the Disney Family doesn't seem to include any company that they just happen to work with. Maybe it does, but from the published policy:

"The Walt Disney Family of Companies refers to The Walt Disney Company and its subsidiary and affiliated entities, which offer their products and services under various brand names. These companies engage in a number of businesses, including theme parks and travel, motion pictures and television, publishing, consumer products and interactive services. The Walt Disney Company brands include, among others, the following:

ABC
Baby Einstein
BabyZone
Club Penguin
Disney
ESPN
Hollywood Records
Kaboose
Marvel
Muppets
Pixar
Playdom
Tapulous
Touchstone"

Source:
http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

did you notice anyone over the age of 10 automatically has charge abilities unless you read that fine print and remove that option?
and the rules of the app will "prevail" over the website rules, and that they can be amended at any time?

I haven't read anything, and I'm not claiming to be an expert on NextGen. But of course I figure that it is a way for moderately to very wealthy families to purchase more in the parks given that it is a pain to whip out the credit card all the time. Meaning, folks could/would buy more if it was easier, and also less associated with money, as in make it part of a game.

Remember Disney dollars? They did that so it didn't feel like you were spending real money in the parks, out of the hope that people would spend more. Same thing here, you're not spending money, your magical wristband is buying the stuff, and doing it in a fraction of the time.

I'm not stupid, I realize that Disney will make tons of money off of these wristbands if it means guests can wirelessly buy stuff.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Is that really true though? Per Disney's own privacy policy, the Disney Family doesn't seem to include any company that they just happen to affiliate with. Maybe it does, but from the published policy:

"The Walt Disney Family of Companies refers to The Walt Disney Company and its subsidiary and affiliated entities, which offer their products and services under various brand names. These companies engage in a number of businesses, including theme parks and travel, motion pictures and television, publishing, consumer products and interactive services. The Walt Disney Company brands include, among others, the following:

ABC
Baby Einstein
BabyZone
Club Penguin
Disney
ESPN
Hollywood Records
Kaboose
Marvel
Muppets
Pixar
Playdom
Tapulous
Touchstone"

Source:
http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html

Exactly.

NextGen is going to make so much $$$ for the parks, they will only risk having their own collection of brands asking for the permission to contact guests.