Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[WDW1974]

Glad to see this is getting actual media coverage outside Disney-themed blogs and discussion boards. As much as I hate this thing. It might actually be preferable to going through those god-awful Interactive Queues.

It will only get more as more details poor out and more people become aware of the database Disney wants to compile.

I've already been approached by several media outlets (REAL ones) with interview requests.

 

[GoofGoof]

More like taking a quote that shows his mindset about harvesting sellable data and applying it to the company's latest, and largest effort, to do so.
It's Exhibit A against the idea that they aren't looking to monetize the collected data, no matter how they collect it. Your Honor, it goes to show motive and intent.

I agree it shows his desire to monetize collected data in the past. I never said I didn't think they may look to sell data just that there is no proof that that is the intent, no smoking gun.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I'm hoping the CPSMC gets a couple slices with the axe and a new strategy with these layoffs...
A Totoro can dream...

 

[DonaldDoleWhip]

This post sums up a bunch of ways to make a return on NextGen besides selling data. I stole it from another thread, but it's a good summary worthy of a repeat:

I've read that post before and it definitely makes some great points. To me, the bottom line is that Disney will make money from this project, even if that revenue is seen over the long-term rather than immediately. However, the impact on guests' actual experience is questionable. The lack of transparency about Disney's intentions is what bugs me. I feel like this whole project will be detrimental to my Disney experience (and to many others as well), but Disney is acting like it's an improvement for everyone. If they were more open about the purposes of some of these 'enhancements' (after all, not everyone knows they'll be in WDW 180 days in advance - I guess these people will have to settle for the 100-minute standby lines at Soarin' and TSMM), I'd feel a bit less peeved right now.

 

[flynnibus]

More like taking a quote that shows his mindset about harvesting sellable data and applying it to the company's latest, and largest effort, to do so.

Here we go again.. taking half-truths and trying to extrapolate them. The bolded part you added.. extrapolating his comments made 3 years ago to be about this initiative. A progression that is feasible, but not actually part of the quote nor article.

A desire to does not make the ability to, nor plan too...

We're talking about statements made at a technology conference when discussing how to combat the changing landscape of advertising. While in the same conversation had to address the very issues that prevent him from carrying through on what his opinion on the matter was. Again.. comments made 3+ years ago and yet they haven't crossed into doing it. This is also the CEO winding his way down and out of the company.

Since you are so confident in Iger's comments - why would you argue they haven't done anything with it in the 3 years since then?

 

[spacemt354]

I think we can safely assume what Iger is thinking, based on his quote:

"If we could sell your behavior to an advertiser -- I am actually pretty bullish about what technology is going to allow in terms of behavioral tracking. I think we are going to have information to sell to marketers."

Here is the quote from the article in question in full context:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/07/23/media-disney-idUSN2235171720090723

Personally, my two cents. I agree with flynn and goofgoof. It's not a smoking gun. There is too much assuming, and much less fact in this quote and article to prove this same philosophy will occur with NextGen.

 

[WDW1974]

Your logic is that somehow spending $2b dollars on tangible additions would not have been as valuable as the money spent on NextGen. I agree, but the fact is that the benefactor will be TWDC and not the guest.

In essence, that is @flynnibus 's whole argument (well, beyond technology is super awesome and those of us who have issues with it just need to get with the changing times like he has!)

I'm a shareholder and I want to see my investment improve in value. But I'm also a fan, and this entire project is one where TWDC gets the vast majority of benefit, while some guests (to varying degrees in proportion to how much they likely paid) get the rest.

That doesn't appeal to me at all. I understand that techies love it ... I believe our own fearless leader @wdwmagic would be one. I don't. The privacy issues are only one facet of the problem I have.

I see four stale parks that have largely gotten very little new product in the last decade and THIS is Disney's answer. They're so cheap, they won't even add a new parade at the MK (I don't want to tell you how many parades are held annually at TDL and how many of those are NEW).

UNI and SW parks are adding some of the best product in the industry (please don't bring up Mermaid or I'll laugh you off the continent!) and THIS is Disney's answer. THIS is Disney's Potter-Swatter. A data-mining, trip-planning tool. THIS is what they think will drive traffic to WDW.

THIS is why I think they have a severe issue in management.

 

[Lee]

Since you are so confident in Iger's comments - why would you argue they haven't done anything with it in the 3 years since then?

I have no reason to think that the company hasnt been selling data to marketers. Not necessarily personal information, granted, but likely general data.

Iger clearly showed a desire to monetize the data they were collecting from the websites. To think that the same idea didn't play a big part in the development of NextGen, knowing the massive amounts of data they would be harvesting...well, I can't get my head around that kind of thinking. It strains credulity. Ridiculous. Silly.

 

[WDW1974]

This is why I believe FP+ is wrong. NextGEN will now treat the park attractions as if they were on par with the resort rooms and restaurants. They're not. But Disney believes that they are.

Yep. And if the prices for admission aren't high enough, imagine a day that isn't say Christmas or NYE when folks wind up doing 4-5 attractions and waiting in long lines for virtually (pun intended) everything.

 

[Lee]

There is too much assuming, and much less fact in this quote and article to prove this same philosophy will occur with NextGen.

So...you think that this company, the Walt Disney Company, would choose to pass on the opportunity to sell the gathered data? They'd just say, "Nah...lets not sell it. We didn't get into this NextGen thing for the money."

I never realized how many people viewed the company as so altruistic...

 

[WDW1974]

Still no answer to this?

Are you asking if there's an opt out?

There will be, apparently, in the legal sense only. Somewhere here I compared it to having to agree to a 33-page contract at a kiosk in order to rent a car. You have a choice? Sure, you can spent a week reading it and consulting with your lawyer or you can walk or you can just do what 99.9999% of people do and go right on through to the 'I accept' button and drive away.

WDW's ticketing operation and $7.83 an hour CMs simply aren't/won't be trained in how to explain to guests what RFID tech is how they can 'opt in' ('cause that's a positive ... you're in ... you're getting something special ... you don't really want to be out do you? Like a loser?)

But don't ask me, ask Nick.Franklin@Disney.com. Or one of my pals in Celebration, I'm sure Blondie would love to help you if Tommy is under his desk after this week and Crazy Gary is out staking his dragon over at IOA.

 

[WDW1974]

No - I'm simply debunking this theory that everyone has equal opportunity in the parks.. and this new stuff takes it away. It's not there to start with.

Nah, you're being argumentaive because that's in your nature.

You are correct that complete equality has never existed in the parks. It doesn't exist now when I bypass a line of 68 rubes waiting a turnstile and walk to an empty one with no CM and a green light next to it.

BUT ... Disney has never so actively sought a cruise line (of today's) model ... or, more accurately, today's airline model for how guests will be treated.

The whole 'everyone is a VIP' notion is being shredded by this. And, yes, folks largely were on an equal footing completely when in the parks from a corporate standpoint before FP and, mostly, after. Now, they won't be ... not at all.

And they're also counting on social media to stick to their drum beat and be louder than many in real media that will attack it (although my local CBS-owned and operated affilate had a positive piece on tonight's news).

If Nick Franklin yesterday was the best public face they are going to put out on this, then I'm going out on a two-foot limb and telling you they're in mucho trouble.

 

[nytimez]

Here we go again.. taking half-truths and trying to extrapolate them. The bolded part you added.. extrapolating his comments made 3 years ago to be about this initiative. A progression that is feasible, but not actually part of the quote nor article.

A desire to does not make the ability to, nor plan too...

We're talking about statements made at a technology conference when discussing how to combat the changing landscape of advertising. While in the same conversation had to address the very issues that prevent him from carrying through on what his opinion on the matter was. Again.. comments made 3+ years ago and yet they haven't crossed into doing it. This is also the CEO winding his way down and out of the company.

Since you are so confident in Iger's comments - why would you argue they haven't done anything with it in the 3 years since then?

I don't even think you believe this.

 

[Captain Chaos]

So...you think that this company, the Walt Disney Company, would choose to pass on the opportunity to sell the gathered data? They'd just say, "Nah...lets not sell it. We didn't get into this NextGen thing for the money."

I never realized how many people viewed the company as so altruistic...

Lee, it's the dust... I'm telling you, it is more potent than any other white powder...

 

[WDW1974]

And therein lies the problem.

If original FP -- we'll call it original recipe -- is kept at the same distribution quantity after FP+ -- also known as extra crispy -- is introduced, then the standby queues are going to grow even longer. For some popular attractions, those lines are already at ridiculously long lengths.

But if the original recipe offerings are reduced in number after the extra crispy option is introduced, in order to keep the standby queues from exploding, then the potential for non-NextGEN guests acquiring same-day original recipe tickets decreases, thereby forcing them into very long standby lines for practically everything they ride. And that's not fair for the casual park visitor who didn't have the luxury of booking their visit months in advance.


And that's inherently unfair to those who don't have the technology available to do that, which isn't necessarily a judgment of socioeconomic status. Not every single technology professional who vacations is wired out the wazoo.

Isn't that often the point of taking a vacation in the first place: unplugging one's life? I know that's always been the case for me. But I guess that's no longer allowed in the 21st Century Disney Theme Park Universe™.

Not at WDW ... there's a reason why I always prefer DL and the international resorts. There's always a more relaxing vibe and never the sense that 'we paid CRAZY money to come to this packed overrated Mousehole and we need to do everything to come close to getting our money's worth!'

BTW, I am now in the mood for KFC!

 

[spacemt354]

So...you think that this company, the Walt Disney Company, would choose to pass on the opportunity to sell the gathered data? They'd just say, "Nah...lets not sell it. We didn't get into this NextGen thing for the money."

I never realized how many people viewed the company as so altruistic...

I never said they wouldn't. But that article and quote did not provide evidence that the company is doing this with NextGen. To be honest it seemed to me that you had posted that quote just to drum up negativity towards this project. I'm not trying to insult you, so if it comes off that way I apologize. I think if quote was posted in its original context from the get go, then it would have been easier for me to agree with you on the idea that it "may" happen again.

Maybe this answer isn't known yet or it was said before, but what type of information are they selling to others? Private credit card information? Social Security? Or is it just your own personal likes/dislikes in the parks?

If it is the first option, I wholeheartedly agree with you, but if it's the latter I'm not sure how molding your Disney vacation around your likes is a bad thing for the consumer? It certainly is a good thing for the company. They would make a lot of money. Am I missing something?

 

[awoogala]

Are you asking if there's an opt out?

There will be, apparently, in the legal sense only. Somewhere here I compared it to having to agree to a 33-page contract at a kiosk in order to rent a car. You have a choice? Sure, you can spent a week reading it and consulting with your lawyer or you can walk or you can just do what 99.9999% of people do and go right on through to the 'I accept' button and drive away.

WDW's ticketing operation and $7.83 an hour CMs simply aren't/won't be trained in how to explain to guests what RFID tech is how they can 'opt in' ('cause that's a positive ... you're in ... you're getting something special ... you don't really want to be out do you? Like a loser?)

But don't ask me, ask Nick.Franklin@Disney.com. Or one of my pals in Celebration, I'm sure Blondie would love to help you if Tommy is under his desk after this week and Crazy Gary is out staking his dragon over at IOA.

you can opt out. BUT..to do that, you cannot get fp+, you cannot use the app, and you cannot use the new website to do online check-in. Do any of those things, and you have given them permission to mine your data, and the data of anyone in your party, including any minors. Read the fine print. It also says that at any point, disney will be able to make certain experiences dependent on certain purchases. Read the info on the app in full.

 

[flynnibus]

I don't even think you believe this.

Of course.. for the last X years.. Disney has actually been selling everyone's private info in direct violation of their privacy policy http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html and we should have known all along.. because Iger said he was bullish on the idea back in 2009! It was right under our noses all along! Someone wake me up when wdwmagic.com is on MSNBC tomorrow breaking the story...

Or.. we can be educated and understand what they do collect and what they do share with affiliates, joint marketers, and 3rd parties. But it always strokes the crowd better when we just take a sliver of truth and apply it broadly. Details are not for the mob...

And Disney has the common options for sharing your personal data - for anyone actually concerned.. go here
http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp_communication-choices.html

For those just looking to create FUD.. carry on.

 

[WDW1974]

Your right spirit.. I'm actually Tom Corless... and I've been sent by the weatherman to battle your campaign against the brotherhood of the mouse. I've been given unlimited numbers of comp passes to give out to my minions to rise up and squash your little crusade. Powered by turkey legs and cinnamon rolls.. I have unlimited energy for the mouse.

Let's leave Corless out. He loves the attention because he never reads here, after all (none of them do!) Let's just agree that if Disney hires him for any position after what he pulled this weekend that he was doing something for them all along, right? Can we at least agree on something as common sense as that?

Did you skip the day in journalism class where they said 'attacking the individual instead of he message shows you've got nothing left'? Honestly.. I expected more than you having to resort to the backhanded comments about the individuals instead of addressing the topic. But you don't have any gay jabs you can throw at me.. nor social media circle clinging.

I am not attacking you. But you keep repeating yourself like a drone. Or, yes, a BRAND ADVOCATE. Why don't you come up with something new and different. You like this. Great. Many of us, don't. And I'm sure you don't think any eyes at Disney are reading this thread, do you? Eyes that know exactly who we both are and are respective positions?

And, please, let's not make me a homophobe. That's sorta attacking the individual. And it's a bald-faced lie. I doubt you're gay. You don't feel good-looking enough to me!

Oh, and I did try a cinnamon roll this time while at DLR.. meh.. why on earth are people enamored with that thing? It's no better (worse I thought) than any mall cinnabon store.

I don't like cinnamon rolls period. So I can't help you. But I have had the MK ones and they're tasty, but huge (about the only food item that is oversized at WDW!)

 

[nytimez]

Of course.. for the last X years.. Disney has actually been selling everyone's private info in direct violation of their privacy policy http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp.html and we should have known all along.. because Iger said he was bullish on the idea back in 2009! It was right under our noses all along! Someone wake me up when wdwmagic.com is on MSNBC tomorrow breaking the story...

Or.. we can be educated and understand what they do collect and what they do share with affiliates, joint marketers, and 3rd parties. But it always strokes the crowd better when we just take a sliver of truth and apply it broadly. Details are not for the mob...

And Disney has the common options for sharing your personal data - for anyone actually concerned.. go here
http://corporate.disney.go.com/corporate/pp_communication-choices.html

For those just looking to create FUD.. carry on.

You're ignoring the obvious in favor of the unlikely. Sorry, but normally your arguments are much more rational than that even when I disagree with them.

And this one in particular seems to strike a rather personal nerve with you for some reason.

Oh, and this is a mob now? Creating FUD? What was that about attacking the messenger(s) someone said earlier in this thread? Hmmm... I could dig it up, but I'm pretty sure you know what that was. And who said it.

Carry on, indeed!