Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[marni1971]

Kinda what I was getting at earlier.
If I opt out, I clearly am going to have a "lesser" experience than someone who has opted in, such as being subjected to longer wait times.

That being the case, shouldn't an "opt out ticket" cost less?

It's almost bribery. They'll give you extra benefits in exchange for you subjecting yourself to the data mining/tracking, etc.

To me, that's maybe the most important part if this whole thing. The obvious negative impact on guests who opt out.

Still no answer to this?

 

[PhilharMagician]

Still no answer to this?

The answer is opt-out of going to WDW and it will cost you less. There are plenty of things to do down the road a few miles.

 

[disneyflush]

Do you consider the $200 million that Universal spent on WWOHP part of this race to the bottom? I doubt you'd find anyone within Universal's management that would think that money was anything other than the best ROI they have ever seen. The attendance increase netted from that has probably paid for itself three fold by this point and been a publicity windfall.

You seem to be really enamoured with the technical possibilities of NextGen which I find admirable. I must admit that those aspects of it, the technical specifications and inner workings of such a complex system, are fascinating to me as well. However, I do not trust the management of Disney to derive anything beneficial to the guest from this system. This was designed from the outset to be a BUSINESS PROCESS TOOL. A way to streamline operations and resource allocation with the enormous side benefit of mining nearly invaluable consumer spending data from a highly coveted demographic. The fact that it MAY provide SOME cool benefits to the guest SOME DAY are coincidental to the true purpose of the entire project.

Will that $2B investment pay off? Probably, because the general public is either ignorant to or indifferent about the implications of this system. It's not that I think the system is evil I just don't like the blatant misdirection that this was created to meet guest demands and create an environment of whole new non existent park experiences.

Your logic is that somehow spending $2b dollars on tangible additions would not have been as valuable as the money spent on NextGen. I agree, but the fact is that the benefactor will be TWDC and not the guest.

I agree with you here. I'm not sure we are seeing a "race to the bottom". There are a lot of posts talking about the increased quality and value in SW and Universal and how much better those parks have become. Disney had a pretty healthy profit last year so I don't think investing a small percentage of it into a new ride would necessarily be the death knell of the company. Are there specific negatives you envision from parks adding attractions, increasing attendance, and increasing revenue such as Universal is currently?

 

[DisneyLeo18]

The answer is opt-out of going to WDW and it will cost you less. There are plenty of things to do down the road a few miles.

Boom


I'm leaning towards this. Not even thinking twice about it really.

 

[flynnibus]

EMH is different since it's outside the regular operating hours of the parks

It's an artificial separation created solely for this purpose.

So the uneven playing field just got more uneven, and you're championing that?

No - I'm simply debunking this theory that everyone has equal opportunity in the parks.. and this new stuff takes it away. It's not there to start with.

 

[flynnibus]

1)Nope I have no problem them spending money on actual attractions

So again.. what about things that don't collect revenue. Like transportation? Customer Service? Grounds keeping? etc etc. The list goes on and on.. you can't hold onto this theory that it's attractions or nothing.

2)I trust the travel agent as I haven't given up my privacy to get the holiday I wanted. E.g. It is like me wanting transfers to and from the airport. Then the travel agent says I can only have that if I accept my data being sold to third parties

And again... you jump to the unproven assumption of selling the info as the basis for your dismay. You stand on jello.

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

From looking at interviews and such this is what I have gathered the future of FP to be.

FP+ offered for future ride reservation for hotel guest before coming on property/FP still available to regular guest through the old ticket way

And therein lies the problem.

If original FP -- we'll call it original recipe -- is kept at the same distribution quantity after FP+ -- also known as extra crispy -- is introduced, then the standby queues are going to grow even longer. For some popular attractions, those lines are already at ridiculously long lengths.

But if the original recipe offerings are reduced in number after the extra crispy option is introduced, in order to keep the standby queues from exploding, then the potential for non-NextGEN guests acquiring same-day original recipe tickets decreases, thereby forcing them into very long standby lines for practically everything they ride. And that's not fair for the casual park visitor who didn't have the luxury of booking their visit months in advance.

So essentially I can wake up at 6, log on to get my 10:30 FP+ for TSMM and go back to sleep knowing my FP is secure and i dont have to go to the park super early to get it.

And that's inherently unfair to those who don't have the technology available to do that, which isn't necessarily a judgment of socioeconomic status. Not every single technology professional who vacations is wired out the wazoo.

Isn't that often the point of taking a vacation in the first place: unplugging one's life? I know that's always been the case for me. But I guess that's no longer allowed in the 21st Century Disney Theme Park Universe™.

 

[flynnibus]

What I'm saying was that for the price of a ticket, every guest was entitled to the same park experience. The same access to FP, the sane ability to visit a restaurant, to get a good parade or fireworks viewing spot, etc.
Under the new system, if you opt out...no FP for you. No booking a parade spot or FP in advance.

No they weren't entitled to the same park experience. What did exist was 'first come, first serve' - and even that has many limitations and many ways Disney has offered to buy around that limitation.

Of course there have always been extra-cost add-ons like tours or better hotels to enhance your visit, but the floor, the minimum, remained no matter what.

So what constitutes baseline vs upsold? The people buying ticket-only have been at a disadvantage compared to onsite guests for a long time now.

Disney's policies also severely favored the guests that ignored return times vs guests that conformed.

This new plan changes that. A $90 ticket doesn't provide the same experience to those who opt out. FP+ does gave a cost...you have to opt in and take part in NextGen.

One could argue you had to 'opt-in' to FP's model in the first place... the idea of returning later in return for shorter wait. You had to conform to Disney's model or lose out. You've had to give Disney the name for your tickets for some time now. A RFID enabled ticket isn't going to offer Disney a whole lot more than what you've been volunteering yourself for over a decade. You've been happily telling Disney which attractions and locations you've been at for some time.. every time you hit that FP machine... or every time you use that KTTW charge access, etc. Now the data collection is better and more granular... but the core concept of what you are trying to 'protect' you've been volunteering all along.

 

[flynnibus]

@flynnibus

Just a quick question for you.

Do you think this NextGen initiative is really going to have a positive impact on the guest experience? I don't see anyway that it does. Even if we take out all the possibilities that have been talked about here, and just stick to the very basic facts of what we know, ie...FP+, Magicbands, Cruise ship style payment system. How does any of this benefit the "guest"?

It can offer lots of things that will have a positive impact on guest experience..

• If I don't have to wait an hour for a fireworks place.. that's a benefit to me
• If they are going to offer order ahead.. even if you don't want that service, that means they'll likely post their menus online and you can't get it direct from disney (updated) rather than relying on 3rd party sites
• The idea that I can see return times and wait times on my smartphone is a benefit (this too was part of nextgen build up)
• The idea I can check FP/FP+ availability without having to cross the park to figure out is a benefit
• The idea I will have kiosks in the park I can check dining availability (as well as via my devices) is a benefit
• The potential for services like people locating would be a benefit
• The potential for improvement in services by knowing actual crowd loads (like bus stops) would be a benefit
• The potential for new show integration (just because you may not enjoy it doesn't mean all guests won't)
• etc etc

How can you argue any of those are NOT positives for the guest? The reality is people are taking the things they perceive as negative and throw out all the positive because of the negative.. and then argue there is nothing in it for the guests. Well certainly not if you've cleared the table of anything positive because you had something you saw as a negative first...

 

[crispy]

All arguments aside, the fundamental argument for me is that planning a vacation to a theme park just shouldn't be this hard. If I wanted to work, I would go to work instead of taking a vacation. I am usually pretty easy going about vacations. I like to plan, but I like to be flexible, too. This just makes everything seem so regimented and structured, and, well, not fun. We love WDW, but we take also love taking non-Disney vacations. I have learned that we can have fun in many places whether it's a theme park, a national park, or a historical site. I don't need WDW to have fun, and quite frankly, most places I visit are a heck of a lot cheaper anyway.

 

[SirLink]

So again.. what about things that don't collect revenue. Like transportation? Customer Service? Grounds keeping? etc etc. The list goes on and on.. you can't hold onto this theory that it's attractions or nothing.



And again... you jump to the unproven assumption of selling the info as the basis for your dismay. You stand on jello.

1)Love how you leave out WWOHP which disproves your point, but if we want to play this game, the resort was envisioned with a transportation network in place, one which they don't like to invest in apart from letting Mears run more buses for them. WDW is supposed to a world class resort, customer service is free - best hotels in London - staff chat to you while being polite and courteous giving service with a smile. Talking of world class resorts I expect the grounds to be kept well.

The main draw are the Parks, the main draw are the Rides and Spectaculars without those why would anyone want to go visit a swamp. Futhermore seen as there Parks are already stale and have turned from what I remember in my first trip in 1994 an energetic World Showcase to a glorified food court. But it seems you are wanting to defend a company

2)What else are going to do with it after they have used it. They'll sell it .. or more likely but access to the data on the table when it comes for negotiations for sponsors for the Parks. I'm standing on terra firma, while you seemingly are trying out for a job at Celebration Plaza ...

 

[awoogala]

It can offer lots of things that will have a positive impact on guest experience..

• If I don't have to wait an hour for a fireworks place.. that's a benefit to me
• If they are going to offer order ahead.. even if you don't want that service, that means they'll likely post their menus online and you can't get it direct from disney (updated) rather than relying on 3rd party sites
• The idea that I can see return times and wait times on my smartphone is a benefit (this too was part of nextgen build up)
• The idea I can check FP/FP+ availability without having to cross the park to figure out is a benefit
• The idea I will have kiosks in the park I can check dining availability (as well as via my devices) is a benefit
• The potential for services like people locating would be a benefit
• The potential for improvement in services by knowing actual crowd loads (like bus stops) would be a benefit
• The potential for new show integration (just because you may not enjoy it doesn't mean all guests won't)
• etc etc

How can you argue any of those are NOT positives for the guest? The reality is people are taking the things they perceive as negative and throw out all the positive because of the negative.. and then argue there is nothing in it for the guests. Well certainly not if you've cleared the table of anything positive because you had something you saw as a negative first...

well, since so much of this is dependent on having a smartphone or standing in line at a kiosk, it has saved me no time in the parks. I don't want or need a smartphone, and I don't want one just because disney makes it harder for those of us who don't have one.
Don't get me wrong, I get that if I had one, I may feel better about some of these. My only option would be to do the way in advance fp+..everyone with a smartphone is now at an advantage, and I would have rather run for a fp, then stand in line at a kiosk.
(and the whole scary big brother info collecting)

 

[HMF]

Or you could buy Toy Story Mania on the Nintendo Wii and get someone to push you round your living room on an office chair, spinning you occasionally. You don't even have to wake at 6.00am then.

That was my first thought when they made it for Wii. Why bother having a ride then.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It can offer lots of things that will have a positive impact on guest experience..

• If I don't have to wait an hour for a fireworks place.. that's a benefit to me
• If they are going to offer order ahead.. even if you don't want that service, that means they'll likely post their menus online and you can't get it direct from disney (updated) rather than relying on 3rd party sites
• The idea that I can see return times and wait times on my smartphone is a benefit (this too was part of nextgen build up)
• The idea I can check FP/FP+ availability without having to cross the park to figure out is a benefit
• The idea I will have kiosks in the park I can check dining availability (as well as via my devices) is a benefit
• The potential for services like people locating would be a benefit
• The potential for improvement in services by knowing actual crowd loads (like bus stops) would be a benefit
• The potential for new show integration (just because you may not enjoy it doesn't mean all guests won't)
• etc etc

How can you argue any of those are NOT positives for the guest? The reality is people are taking the things they perceive as negative and throw out all the positive because of the negative.. and then argue there is nothing in it for the guests. Well certainly not if you've cleared the table of anything positive because you had something you saw as a negative first...

The biggest issue I see is Disney expecting the technology to do the work for them once it is in place. It's in the effeminacy and cost savings potential that I have always expected NextGen to make back its money. I do not believe that Disney will use the data to be more dynamic in their handling, but more rigid because people with little to no theme park operational experience will be making decisions based on what the computers are saying will happen. It'll intensify existing problems, not fix them.

 

[flynnibus]

And why can't I help that but thinking that someone here is auditioning for a job ... Brian Charles Kohn proved that doesn't work back in the RADP days.

I think some of us who can post 24/7 can ... others of us, unfortunately, can't ...

Your right spirit.. I'm actually Tom Corless... and I've been sent by the weatherman to battle your campaign against the brotherhood of the mouse. I've been given unlimited numbers of comp passes to give out to my minions to rise up and squash your little crusade. Powered by turkey legs and cinnamon rolls.. I have unlimited energy for the mouse.

Did you skip the day in journalism class where they said 'attacking the individual instead of he message shows you've got nothing left'? Honestly.. I expected more than you having to resort to the backhanded comments about the individuals instead of addressing the topic. But you don't have any gay jabs you can throw at me.. nor social media circle clinging.

Oh, and I did try a cinnamon roll this time while at DLR.. meh.. why on earth are people enamored with that thing? It's no better (worse I thought) than any mall cinnabon store.

 

[SirLink]

That was my first thought when they made it for Wii. Why bother having a ride then.

Don't even need a Wii it is also on PS3 and 360, I believe the PS3 version even has built in 3D.

 

[Jane Doe]

Don't even need a Wii it is also on PS3 and 360, I believe the PS3 version even has built in 3D.

I make it even more realistic by standing outside for four hours before playing.

 

[DisneyLeo18]

• If I don't have to wait an hour for a fireworks place.. that's a benefit to me - Never did this, and honestly shocked people have done it, but sounds like a benefit if you do.
• If they are going to offer order ahead.. even if you don't want that service, that means they'll likely post their menus online and you can't get it direct from disney (updated) rather than relying on 3rd party sites - To me, I would like an app that listed the menu's (or even on their website). Then again I don't get booking reservations 6 months in advance
• The idea that I can see return times and wait times on my smartphone is a benefit (this too was part of nextgen build up) - Put this in the app I wanted
• The idea I can check FP/FP+ availability without having to cross the park to figure out is a benefit - This too
• The idea I will have kiosks in the park I can check dining availability (as well as via my devices) is a benefit - and this
• The potential for services like people locating would be a benefit - Like a lost child? I suppose. I'm not a parent so can't comment
• The potential for improvement in services by knowing actual crowd loads (like bus stops) would be a benefit - This from a service standpoint I agree with. If they will actually use it? I'd be shocked
• The potential for new show integration (just because you may not enjoy it doesn't mean all guests won't) - Lost on this one
• etc etc...

Good post Flynn, I can see some of your points on a service standpoint, but most others can be solved with a simple smart phone app, that anyone can download (say with a pin provided upon check-in?) and not have to worry about opting out of Nextgen and losing the experience.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm more interested in how the database look-up is supposed to fast YET encrypted securely enough...

Encryption overhead really isn't a limiting factor in such a system... it's the actual database design and transaction/query sizes that are far more significant. I don't need ALL of your data to process a transaction - just the data relevant to the transaction type. It's posible to design the system with layers of information so things can be optimized for lookups and checks.

Such a system will likely also be multi-layered with Real-time and batch handling to update less time sensitive systems. If the location processing isn't needed for real-time lookups.. I can just log data.. and then batch process it on other job handlers without slowing down the loggers.

The real task is making queries/searches fast and as non-blocking as possible.

 

[SirLink]

Encryption overhead really isn't a limiting factor in such a system... it's the actual database design and transaction/query sizes that are far more significant. I don't need ALL of your data to process a transaction - just the data relevant to the transaction type. It's posible to design the system with layers of information so things can be optimized for lookups and checks.

Such a system will likely also be multi-layered with Real-time and batch handling to update less time sensitive systems. If the location processing isn't needed for real-time lookups.. I can just log data.. and then batch process it on other job handlers without slowing down the loggers.

The real task is making queries/searches fast and as non-blocking as possible.

Also depends on the design of the server farm and how they are splitting the databases across them. I wonder if they purchased via the recommendation of Accenture or going of their own steam. But anyway...