Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[the.dreamfinder]

I heard that at the recent DVC annual meeting they crowed about the fact all DVC resorts will be gaining triple sheeting on beds and how it's the industry standard. All I can say to that is they're only about a decade behind the industry in that.

Shifting deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[Rasvar]

People have lost the basic ability to form lines. Forget WDW (although I love getting in a QSR line where they take orders on both sides and people are all on one side ... or standing to get in the parks when turnstiles have green arrows and no one is using them but 63 people are lined up at another) ... the 'California' line phenomenon has gone cross country. So you enter a fast food outlet with 3-4 registers and instead of people getting into lines, they form the giant blob and sorta hang back 5-6-7 feet from the counter and think they're in line or that it's first standing, first order taken. Crazy. I love watching as we head back to becoming monkeys again.

So correct. My favorite thing is being the person who makes the move to the empty side or the green arrow and then seeing the delayed reaction line fill in like I was some modern day Pied Piper. I don't care if I get a dirty look, I'm being a master of line efficiency. I'll make that slide into the adjacent turnstile while a family of seven has one parent trying to figure out the finger reader.

 

[scout68]

I do NOT want this thread turned into yet another discussion on ECVs (would rather we talk about lifetime refillable mugs and how anyone who uses them will burn in Hell! ... need a devil smiley ... where is that?) ... but morbid obesity is certainly a medical condition, but it's also a self-inflicted one too and one that's becoming very politically incorrect to point out simple facts.

Beyond that, I'd wager that 85-90% of guests who are in EVCs truly do not need them. Not wanting to walk distances or wanting to get sore feet isn't a legit reason. But that's really all I wish to say about that.

I must admit have a problem with the 90%ers that have worn out soles on the very shoes that occupy the no skid deck plate of the EVCs you speak of.

 

[WDWFanDave]

Reading through the last few pages caused me to have to return to the OP to figure out what the heck the thread was supposed to be about.

I'll interject just one stroller comment, as I'm likely one of those parents that would receive the glaring looks from those with the strongest opinions in this forum. My daughter is six. Although at quick glance, you would likely not even notice, she was born with a birth defect that affected both of her feet. She's been through years (yep, six years worth) of serial casting, surgeries, custom built orthotics, and countless doctor visits, many thousands of dollars in medical costs, and even luckily seen by the a chief of pediatrics at one of the finest childrens' orthopedic centers in the country. Through all of that, we have been blessed with results that allow her to function fairly normally...that means that she can stand upright, walk, and even participate in some more 'complex' functional activities like dance (things that are of course, not 'complex' to those of us without these same issues). However, too much on her feet, and she's in for some very significant pain, and pain that persists. More than a couple of hours of walking around the parks, and that's where she ends up. So, we spend the money to get her a stroller...and this past visit, we actually rented one from off-site so we'd have it for the whole week. It was a single wide, though

So, back to the OP...EMH...have enjoyed using it in the past, but it's not a deal breaker for us. Honestly, if we're on site and using the bus system, having to leave so much earlier or get back so much later than those hours is almost as obscene as them taking them away. (Although this past trip, we drove and did not ride a WDW bus ONCE, and it was AWESOME) I do hope they use it for something constructive, but this is TDO we're talking about.

Fantasmic...well, saw that in 2000 and haven't been back since. Not even to see the new benches this time. Have heard/read that the new CA show is quite something...sure would be nice to see an upgrade in FL and have a reason to see something there again.

EPCOT makes me sad. Really sad. Was there on the 30th, loved the Illuminations tag (although I still call it the 'laserphonic' show...since that's what it was all those too many years ago). But, that day was nothing more than a terrible "buy all kinds of overpriced, limited edition stuff so you can sell it on eBay quickly and then we'll put the rest at the outlet store" kind of day. I got a t-shirt, mostly because my favorite color is orange and the print on the shirt was orange. Went to the old WoL pavilion for the first time as the 'Festival' building (never paid enough attention when I've been there for F&W before to know they actually even still used that building). All I could think, the whole time I was there, was what the hell happened?! I have the original brochure handed out at the welcome center in the MK the year before EPCOT opened. It has been my favorite place at WDW ever since, until now. I'll probably go back to ride TT next time so I can see it in person, and maybe indulge in the strawberry shortcake at The Land. Might even do the Princess dinner in Norway again (yep, have taken the Princess in my family there 2 years in a row for her birthday dinner). Other than that, it's a waste of time, other than to walk around and look at the pretty buildings. Such a disgrace.

New Fantasyland...got to see a preview of Belle's place when we were there, along with the opening of SBC. Liked what I saw, and appreciated the quality. Looking forward to taking my little one through Little Mermaid, as Ariel is her fave princess, and may consider trying to dine at BOG, but that will not happen if we have to wait in line from park opening. And I can't really see doing dinner there, but who knows. Besides SDMT, it's a shame, IMO, that the conversation about NF stops there. Whoops...I forgot, PFH for meet & greets (a waste of money, if you ask me, as the current set ups work just fine), and the new Tangled bathrooms.

I've never been to Disneyland, or Uni FL/CA, but I can honestly say that my future vacation planning will be taking those into consideration, and likely before a WDW trip happens again.

Anyway, just my two cents worth. Oh, and I didn't jump on the ECV bandwagon above with my notes about the stroller, so I'll just say that I choose to also not judge folks that rent/own those. Personal decisions, and I know too many folks personally that would appear to have no need for one, but if you really knew them...

Happy New Year!

 

[The Empress Lilly]

People have lost the basic ability to form lines. Forget WDW (although I love getting in a QSR line where they take orders on both sides and people are all on one side ... or standing to get in the parks when turnstiles have green arrows and no one is using them but 63 people are lined up at another) ... the 'California' line phenomenon has gone cross country. So you enter a fast food outlet with 3-4 registers and instead of people getting into lines, they form the giant blob and sorta hang back 5-6-7 feet from the counter and think they're in line or that it's first standing, first order taken. Crazy. I love watching as we head back to becoming monkeys again.

So correct. My favorite thing is being the person who makes the move to the empty side or the green arrow and then seeing the delayed reaction line fill in like I was some modern day Pied Piper. I don't care if I get a dirty look, I'm being a master of line efficiency. I'll make that slide into the adjacent turnstile while a family of seven has one parent trying to figure out the finger reader.

....but the truly well mannered thing to do would be to inform the people in front of the single line of the presence of the empty line, then to join either the old or newly formed line at the back oneself.


'The Others' are not dumb sheep that therefore deserve to be taken advantage of. This is the very mentality of the line cutters in the first place. Complain, but always lead by example.


[/end insufferable righteous pedantry mode, itself completely at odds with the spirit of the above ]

 

[EpcotFanForever]

And it's still a madhouse. DLR is a bit more 'strict' in their enforcement because the crowding issue is virtually an every night issue for them not just when the crowds are super high. F! would choke the entire area if it weren't this way.. and the hub crowd control is a constant sore spot for people because of the one way traffic. The 'released' group into watch F! is only for a portion of the viewing area and is done to cope with the Wishes->F! rush I believe.

I think the main difference might be how far and wide DLR pulls it's CMs into 'parade' control vs WDW.

Maybe I am stupid, but I have visited both locations regularly. The crowd control at World of Color is exceptional, and has always been so. There is no comparable example in WDW.

California laws require strict crowd control measures, and WDW is unwilling to invest in adequate crowd control in the absence of strict laws.

 

[flynnibus]

California laws require strict crowd control measures, and WDW is unwilling to invest in adequate crowd control in the absence of strict laws.

Cite these 'laws' then you keep referring to.

 

[WDW1974]

I agree with your stance on karma and on treading lightly on ECV's. Strollers, however, should be limited in width and that can be easily done (single wide only for example). At some point, the little pirates and princesses need to get their @$$ up and walk. I have 3 kids and with the youngest two, I stopped using a stroller when they were 4 (the oldest didn't go to WDW until he was 9). When I see near middle school kids in strollers, it brings out the Drill Sergeant in me that wants to make both parent and child do push ups and mountain climbers for a few hours (mostly the parents)!

I've posted this before and probably will again (I need to have a file that answers everything from strollers to why RC was closed to what WRE was to why there will not be a fifth or sixth gate ...) but at HKDL and TDR strollers are in very small quantities because Asians don't raise lazy fat kids. When a child can walk, they do. It's just a simple thing. Americans coddle their kids and then push them at WDW (if a kid would rather be at a pool than standing in a queue for PoC then that's where they should be).

Now, sometimes Asians raise sappy, sentimental and, sometimes, awkward kids, but that is another story!

 

[WDW1974]

About Flower and Garden having food booths, how many booths are we talking? Are we looking at a scaled down F&W fest? If so, how scaled down?

I don't know an exact number. My feeling is they'll likely start with about half of what they have because Flower Fest has its own booths to go up ... the whole lagoon is really going to be quite crowded ... but EPCOT is viewed largely as a giant food and booze tab park by TDO now. ... With none of those profits actually going back into the park.

 

[Rasvar]

....but the truly well mannered thing to do would be to inform the people in front of the single line of the presence of the empty line, then to join either the old or newly formed line at the back oneself.


'The Others' are not dumb sheep that therefore deserve to be taken advantage of. This is the very mentality of the line cutters in the first place. Complain, but always lead by example.


[/end insufferable righteous pedantry mode, itself completely at odds with the spirit of the above ]

I actually used to do that. The problem was it that by the time I was able to get their attention and explain it someone else already jumped into the spot. It always amazed me at how many times the attendant would say "both lines are open" and no one moves. I'm not saying people are stupid but many do "check out" when on vacation. Plus seeing a flag in the air approaching me will also cause me to move quickly.

 

[WDW1974]

Speaking of food...did anyone notice that the Friar's Nook is open? Gotta love those seasonal treats! I can't wait to see what dust bunnies will collect at the Adventureland Verandah when the princesses move into Snow White's Shuttered Adventures.

hah-hah ... he said Friar's Nook ...

(seriously, is that the place near Pooh that used to serve McD's fries and was once Lancer's Inn, home to the only pizza at the MK?)

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I've posted this before and probably will again (I need to have a file that answers everything from strollers to why RC was closed to what WRE was to why there will not be a fifth or sixth gate ...) but at HKDL and TDR strollers are in very small quantities because Asians don't raise lazy fat kids. When a child can walk, they do. It's just a simple thing. Americans coddle their kids and then push them at WDW (if a kid would rather be at a pool than standing in a queue for PoC then that's where they should be).

This. Wanna learn how NOT to parent? Hang out around DISNEY PARKS(R)(C)TM for a hot minute.

 

[WDW1974]

Alas I will miss it as well because it starts on the 10th. Instead I get 'three kings day' in BTR.. blech. They are just kicking me while down. I'm going just in between two discount periods. You can get discount tickets good through end of 2012.. and can get discount tickets that start on Jan7.. but anything in between is full price.

And AAA and travel agent discounts are like $5.. not even worth the taxi fare to go get them. I liked it better when disney gave discounts for buying electronic tickets.. but even that is gone now.

Sorry to hear that, but Three Kings is still about 1000 times better than the kiddie/foamhead dance parties at MK.
I think there are discounted multi-day tix available at Costco (if you are a member) in SoCal that also include Disney gift cards. You may want to check it out.

I haven't had a need to buy tix to DLR since 2007 (except for a day last December) when I lived out there part-time, so I generally don't pay attention to ticket prices except when they raise them.

How many days are you planning to do the parks?

 

[flynnibus]

I think there are discounted multi-day tix available at Costco (if you are a member) in SoCal that also include Disney gift cards. You may want to check it out.

Yeah, but it's an item they only carry in-store, and in certain areas. I'm not a member now, and without the assurances of availability.. its a bit of a hassle to do while on the way to the site. Costco's are in the area.. but not really close. It's tempting tho.. if I can figure out if they have them in stock at all.

How many days are you planning to do the parks?

3.5 days.. it's a trip just for DLR. Small window of opportunity.. short trip just for the occasion. Gives her an escape from work and kids.

 

[WDW1974]

Haven't had a chance to read through this entire thread, and like most posters, I'm far too lazy, so I've only read the last few pages. A few scattered thoughts:

Lazy?!! Did someone say lazy?!?!? I read your entire DLP thread (with interest I might add) and even commented.

1) The ECV/stroller thing is always a hot-button issue because, on an individual level, it's impossible to know whether someone really "needs" one. You cannot tell simply by looking at someone. That said, I feel comfortable making high-level comments. You see fewer strollers and ECVs at Disneyland, and FAR fewer of both in Disneyland Paris. Part of the reason in Paris is because Europe, in general, isn't as accommodating to the disabled. But that doesn't explain away all of the difference. Another part is because people are generally more fit since they walk more frequently than Americans. I think it's undeniable that America has a problem with obesity, and I think it is undeniable that WDW has a problem with ECV abuse even beyond the disabled obese. There are plenty of solutions to the former issue, but I don't really think there's a good solution to the problem of ECVs at WDW, so complaining is really all we have. Just for the sake of clarity, I am not implying or stating that all people using ECVs are merely obese.

Yes, it is a hot button because some folks need them and you can't tell why. But it's more of a hot button topic because everyone who visits can plainly see and hear people talking about why they have them and it comes down to being fat and lazy. I am tired of getting rammed by them, tired of watching planters and trees disappear for wider paths and ginormous parking lots. There's a HUGE problem and WDW's answer is to encourage it. Just take a look at how much retail space is empty as shops get redesigned so these folks can drive or push right on through. Back in the 70s and 80s, people left the strollers and such outside and walked through shops, but no more ... you can now visit WDW and stay entirely on your (sorta like a fanboi Imagineer hookup!)

2) It's like a sick joke that "bling" days at WDW are countered with the Golden Horseshoe at Disneyland for Limited Time Magic. What's even more frustrating, for me personally, is that the Golden Horseshoe is probably the biggest draw for me, and I don't have sufficient notice to get out there.

Same here. It was the one and only 'draw' for me when this was announced as I visited only once when the original was playing and never saw it. But even with my faux-top one percent lifestyle that @Lee only dreams he could have (do you want it? ... you can also deal with all the baggage that goes with it!), I simply won't be able to drop everything and head to SoCal simply because Disney decided that less than two weeks notice was enough (to be fair, that's their plan largely ... this is to get the locals and APers out, especially in Anaheim).

3) Don't the sudden perks being handed to DVC members suggest that there's a satisfaction problem amongst members and that their collective voice matters? You can easily come to the conclusion that a discounted AP is all it takes to buy that group off, or you can conclude that Disney thinks it's all it takes to buy that group off. In reality, Disney could have a serious problem on its hands if this group grows increasingly dissatisfied. I'm not saying it will happen, but why else hand out those perks? Disney certainly isn't doing it out of benevolence.

Disney absolutely has an issue with DVCers using WDW as base and never visiting its stale parks. Hence. the food discounts followed by the TiW and DDP discounts followed by the $399 PAPs (less than I get for my 31 years of loyalty and spending mucho dinero!) soon to be followed by free D23 membership and who knows what else? BUT ... my feeling is that DVCers still don't raise much of a ruckus except with things that directly affect them (hence them destroying the look of the amazing pool at DAK Lodge because they thought the water hole look made them think the pool was dirty and instead of educating them, Disney just made the pool look blue ... am I ranting yet? I just hate stupidity.)

4) @WDW1974 You had me at the other 'bans,' you lost me at tripods. Probably from a personal perspective since I have a vested interest in them sticking around, but I've never been run into by a tripod, been honked at by a tripod, etc., by a tripod. People wandering around taking photos with their iPads are far more "dangerous" and irksome.

I was almost hit by someone swinging one at EPCOT30. To be fair, I think he wasn't even a blogger. But I just don't believe we need all this pro photog equipment in theme parks. ... And the iPads and iPhones and cameras in the air during shows and pyro and on Pirates boats makes me want to take them away and smash them on the ground. Experience your damn vacation, don't record the whole thing to experience at a later date. Morons.

 

[WDW1974]

I actually used to do that. The problem was it that by the time I was able to get their attention and explain it someone else already jumped into the spot. It always amazed me at how many times the attendant would say "both lines are open" and no one moves. I'm not saying people are stupid but many do "check out" when on vacation. Plus seeing a flag in the air approaching me will also cause me to move quickly.

I agree. I am more than willing to teach the filthy masses, but that's not my job. I don't shut my mind off ever, likely why I am a poor sleeper.

If people want to be lead, then I'm more than happy to show them the way to enlightenment ... but I won't stand around with people who have shut their minds off and pretend I did likewise.

 

[WDW1974]

Yeah, but it's an item they only carry in-store, and in certain areas. I'm not a member now, and without the assurances of availability.. its a bit of a hassle to do while on the way to the site. Costco's are in the area.. but not really close. It's tempting tho.. if I can figure out if they have them in stock at all.

I know there are quite a few Costco's pretty close to DLR. I'm not a member either, but I have seen those discounts and if I wasn't afforded comps, then I would likely go in that direction. I want an AP again, but until I'm back living in SoCal there's no way I can justify the prices that are ever increasing. ... I have had friends do the Costco deal, and they called stores in the area before their trips west.

3.5 days.. it's a trip just for DLR. Small window of opportunity.. short trip just for the occasion. Gives her an escape from work and kids.

Well, I'd take 3.5 days at DLR over seven days at WDW, but that's just me ... and the poor woman still has to go with YOU! Some escape.

 

[Rasvar]

I was almost hit by someone swinging one at EPCOT30. To be fair, I think he wasn't even a blogger. But I just don't believe we need all this pro photog equipment in theme parks. ... And the iPads and iPhones and cameras in the air during shows and pyro and on Pirates boats makes me want to take them away and smash them on the ground. Experience your damn vacation, don't record the whole thing to experience at a later date. Morons.

You would have hated me at WOC. I was up at the rail at the water with no tripod but I held my video camera over the rail so I could get an unobstructed shoot. But there was not bright viewscreen in someones sight-line. I actually made sure to see it twice so I could see it without worrying about camera the whole time.

 

[ParentsOf4]

Disney absolutely has an issue with DVCers using WDW as base and never visiting its stale parks. Hence. the food discounts followed by the TiW and DDP discounts followed by the $399 PAPs (less than I get for my 31 years of loyalty and spending mucho dinero!) soon to be followed by free D23 membership and who knows what else? BUT ... my feeling is that DVCers still don't raise much of a ruckus except with things that directly affect them

Guilty as charged.

We have 3 DVC trips booked for 2013 with exactly 2 days planned inside WDW theme parks. At this point, we've got better ways to spend our vacation money and it's not in WDW theme parks. I know several other DVC members who are doing the same.

The $399 PAP no doubt is WDW's attempt to try to get people like us back in the parks. Maybe it would have worked if it was $300 off the regular AP. For now, we're sticking with our $199 Universal AP. We had a great time at Universal in July & November and are looking forward to the next visit. Too bad Universal is not adding anything worth a visit in 2013 or 2014 but at least the "New" Fantasyland will have a new kiddie coaster by then.

I think DVC members are scaring TDO. These are WDW regulars who should be visiting the theme parks in droves. They fact that so many are spending their vacation dollars elsewhere has to be gnawing away at TDO. Despite its many problems, I tell people to go to WDW and enjoy themselves, just let TDO know. Companies listen to paying customers, not former customers. But, as a whole, it looks like DVC members are voting with their wallet.

 

[Longhairbear]

Guilty as charged.

We have 3 DVC trips booked for 2013 with exactly 2 days planned inside WDW theme parks. At this point, we've got better ways to spend our money and it's not in WDW theme parks. I know several other DVC members who are doing the same.

The $399 PAP no doubt is WDW's attempt to try to get people like us back in the parks. Maybe it would have worked if it was $300 off the regular AP. For now, we're sticking with our $199 Universal AP. We had a great time at Universal in July & November and are looking forward to the next visit. Too bad Universal is not adding anything worth a visit in 2013 or 2014 but at least the "New" Fantasyland will have a new kiddie coaster by then.

I think DVC members are scaring TDO. These are WDW regulars who should be visiting the theme parks in droves. They fact that so many are spending their vacation dollars elsewhere has to be gnawing away at TDO. Despite its many problems, I tell people to go to WDW and enjoy themselves, just let TDO know. Companies listen to paying customers, not former customers. But, as a whole, it looks like DVC members are voting with their wallet.

I was wondering how well that promotion did, the discount for the PAP. Was it a hit, or a flop? We didn't get any AP because we have no plans to go to WDW again.