Space Mountain track replacement questions

Phonedave

Well-Known Member
I love DVC, I'm planning on buying into it myself, but there is coming to be an excessive amount of those being built when nothing else is really being done throughout Walt Disney World..


Apples and oranges. DVC is a seperate business unit. It supports itself, it pays for its own construction, and with shared services it pays the business unit it is "borrowing" the services from.

Building DVC is not taking money from any of the parks. It's because DVC itself is making money, and it is using the money it generates to expand, that more and more DVC is being built.

-dave
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
And just because no one has talked about it for a while, doesn't mean the arguments against FastPass are any less valid.
Training and enforcement of FastPass may be an issue, but the fundmentials of the system are sound.
Phonedave said:
DVC is a seperate business unit.
That's what I thought as well. Construction of DVC is in no way a reflect on WDW with regards to the parks.

My understanding is that the complaint of DVC detracting from WDW is the equivalent of ESPN buying channels detracting from it.

Oh man, way off topic...um...er....I hope the track is smooth.
 

Enigma

Account Suspended
WHHAAAAT??? :eek:

Please tell me you didn't just go there. New Pres always equals a shutdown.... Just this time the whole format is getting a redo... not just because of WHO the new pres is/will be. Please leave the politics at home.

This has nothing to do with politics we are talking about Obama in celebrity/marketing terms not about what he believes.

If you don't believe me then why don't you explain why Disney is getting after him to put his 2 daughters on Hannah Montanna hmmm? Do you know how fast the Obama/Spiderman team up comic sold from Marvel? It was an instant sellout and I believe there already on there 3rd printing. It would be foolish for disney not to capatilize on him.

I was told directly by someone in accounting that if it had been ANY other canidate the HOP refurb would not be as extensive as it is going to be.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
I consider them to be somewhat overrated as well. I just find the design of the BLT to be completely uninspired, with minimal work done to have it vibe at all with the classic A-frame. To me, they should go with a design that doesn't look like it could just be built anywhere. I bet you that several decades from now, the BLT will still be something you can show a picture of to the average joe and they won't identify it with Walt Disney World.

This could just be considered personal taste, but I don't think curves should part of the Contemporary's architecture, it's just like saying you can throw up any abstract shapes and that works somehow.

No ... this BLT is designed to look like it 'should' fit it with the classic A-frame, but it doesn't ... much like the convention center that ruined the look of the front when it was attatched in the 1990s.

It looks very, very ordinary.

You may not like the look of the WL ... or the BW ... or the YC etc ... but you can't say they look like they'd fit in just anywhere.

This building ... well, it kinda does look like it could be built anywhere in Orlando ... or Miami ... or Atlanta ... or Tempe ... or Tulsa etc ...

As for comments on a BLT2 coming soon, I can only tell you that won't happen in any near term ... two reasons ... first is that Disney spend tens of millions to upgrade Contemporary South's rooms and facilities in the past 24 months ... second is the next 'scheduled' DVC at WDW is the Grand Flo as Disney is looking to get the affluent end of the market (the ones who buy Four Seasons ... hint ... hint ... type fractional ownership).

And frankly, as bad as this one is, if they did a second ...don't even want to think about that thing looming over the WL and Bay Lake.

ICK!!!!!
 

Pirate665

Well-Known Member
Now, these are just my opinions:

For SM, I think the love it's getting, though small, is a step. Encouragement is needed to make more happen. Don't expect a "Relaunch" package though... DL's SM was in disrepair to inspire that. It was more of a need. Sure, the coaster would've been fine for a little longer, but it was needed. And DL's POTC is not that great. One of the things that WDW prided itself on, and I simply adore, is the speed ramp. At WDW, you didn't have to go "up the waterfall" as it wasn't outside the berm. That's the part I've hated about DL's POTC. (If you really wanted something special in your POTC experience, then ride DLP's... Amazing.) Another thing you all have to keep in mind, given the size of WDW compared to DLR, DLR just "looks" better because there's not as much. If you really look, there's problems. I'm not defending choices, just pointing out that DLR is not perfect as some try to point out. It's just spackle and glue...

Second, DLR does have it's own problems here and there. DCA needs some major love to get it going, though it is something you can visit and be happy with... DL itself is just as bad in some instances with needing some TLC. IASW was a prime example. We do what we can when we can. Different audience out here though. And PL (Pirates Lair for those who do not know), very poor. Yes, neat things to interact with, but poor. TSI = a classic. And, yes, even DLR leaves things to the last possible second to fix... And even it has it's share of horrible ideas (Tarzan's Treehouse, none of my friends nor myself go there...). It's not immune. It's management makes just as bad decisions (and if you really look at TSMM, it's really just plopped into PP) so, I mean, it's not like DLR gets love and WDW gets none...

The parks have to sustain themselves. Money made in there is money put back in. And yes, management is partly to blame for skimping. (It's hard to see a place you've worked at for so long go down hill...) And it's not just you all who complain about these things. CM's and even Managers complain about it too. Bottom line is bottom dollars. While Walt did run things different (and Roy wasn't exactly like Walt, he aimed to do WDW's MK without debt... imagine the differences...) he was about the guests, Roy the money. Public or not (and the Parks are not publicly traded properties) the investments are there. You look at it now, we have nothing but Roy's and no Walt's, in my opinion.

It hurts me to see so much happening, but pressure is on. Correct, WDW has ALOT of first timers. But time can be spent to do things right and not hurt guest interactions and entertainment. If you really look at it, WDW is trying to invest in itself. Just not the directions we'd like to see... I hate The Seas with Nemo... but my niece and nephew love it... I hate BLYAB, but my nephew adores it. I hate the Laughing Floor, but my niece loves it. WDI is not WED. And while I hate to see these things I grew up with go, I have to realize it'll be the same for my niece and nephew. They don't know Pre-Movie POTC. Only the new. Better execution is required, in my opinion. While I hate the ideas, at least the execution could be better. Money has to be spent, and the guys upstairs need to change the feeling. They really need to focus on the guests... maybe they need to take some money out of their salaries to benefit the parks. I know I would. (And I don't make that much to began with... I barely make the bills as it is!)

Guys, we can complain on here as much as we can. Till we are blue in the face. Yes, the product is hurtful and the upkeep down. But, if you really want to wake them up stop pinning for the "old days". START WRITING! They do hear you. They do read. They listen. If people start complaining enough, even shareholders will change. Start writing, start calling!

One thing I can tell you, if it weren't for the fact people didn't complain about the lights, they wouldn't let it go... It's not really a one way road for WDW and DLR.

I don't speak alot on these forums. Look at how long I've been here and my post count. I think the only one who's posted on here who might have interacted with me enough is Marni! Blast me for what it is I wrote, but don't criticize me too much... I do care enough to work there. I do care enough to pick up every piece of trash I see on my day off in the parks when I visit as a guest. And I do it for what my father has disowned and haven't been allowed to speak to the entirety of my family for. I do it for the love of vision, the love of dreams. And I do it for pennies.


>Steve
 

Mr.EPCOT

Active Member
Training and enforcement of FastPass may be an issue, but the fundmentials of the system are sound.

That's what I thought as well. Construction of DVC is in no way a reflect on WDW with regards to the parks.

My understanding is that the complaint of DVC detracting from WDW is the equivalent of ESPN buying channels detracting from it.

I understand all that, I know that it's not taking money away from having other things built, it just sucks that they can build as much as they want, and the parks can't even get their act in gear enough to get Space Mountain the redo it deserves. My main beef with DVC is if they're going to be building hotels as thoughtlessly as the Bay Lake Tower.

No ... this BLT is designed to look like it 'should' fit it with the classic A-frame, but it doesn't ... much like the convention center that ruined the look of the front when it was attatched in the 1990s.

It looks very, very ordinary.

Same architectural firm, big surprise, ruin one side, ruin the other. What's amazing is that darned convention center is award-winning!

You may not like the look of the WL ... or the BW ... or the YC etc ... but you can't say they look like they'd fit in just anywhere.

This building ... well, it kinda does look like it could be built anywhere in Orlando ... or Miami ... or Atlanta ... or Tempe ... or Tulsa etc ...

As for comments on a BLT2 coming soon, I can only tell you that won't happen in any near term ... two reasons ... first is that Disney spend tens of millions to upgrade Contemporary South's rooms and facilities in the past 24 months ... second is the next 'scheduled' DVC at WDW is the Grand Flo as Disney is looking to get the affluent end of the market (the ones who buy Four Seasons ... hint ... hint ... type fractional ownership).

I love Wilderness Lodge (it's my second favorite Resort), and I can understand why people like Yacht & Beach, BoardWalk, and Grand Floridian. Grand Floridian just feels like it is stealing something special and unique from the Hotel del Coronado in San Diego. And I feel like they missed an opportunity to do something really special with the EPCOT Resort Area, being attached to World Showcase they could have done some amazingly-themed Resorts based on different countries.

I wish they'd gone with doing DVC at the Grand Floridian first, because I'm sure it'll be done quite tastefully, much in the way it was with the Villas at Wilderness Lodge. Although, I would assume they would have done that with the Contemporary, so who knows.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
I understand all that, I know that it's not taking money away from having other things built, it just sucks that they can build as much as they want, and the parks can't even get their act in gear enough to get Space Mountain the redo it deserves. My main beef with DVC is if they're going to be building hotels as thoughtlessly as the Bay Lake Tower.
I don't think it was thoughtless at all.

This is all the realm of opinion. In your opinion, the building is horrible and was put up without regard to the A-frame. That's not really something we can argue about.

I think it is undeniably a good business decision though.

WDW1974 said:
As for comments on a BLT2 coming soon, I can only tell you that won't happen in any near term ... two reasons ... first is that Disney spend tens of millions to upgrade Contemporary South's rooms and facilities in the past 24 months ... second is the next 'scheduled' DVC at WDW is the Grand Flo as Disney is looking to get the affluent end of the market (the ones who buy Four Seasons ... hint ... hint ... type fractional ownership).
New building or conversion?
 

Mr.EPCOT

Active Member
I don't think it was thoughtless at all.

This is all the realm of opinion. In your opinion, the building is horrible and was put up without regard to the A-frame. That's not really something we can argue about.

It might be an opinion, but it's at least one that seems to be a general consensus. Many people seem to agree that it is a very plain building, standard condo tower that you might see anywhere. I'm sure there were other designs considered for the new tower that looked much better and got nixed because this design could squeeze a couple more bucks out of people.

I think it is undeniably a good business decision though.

Why did Cutler Beckett pop in my head just now?

Of course it's a 'good business decision', but so would filling in the Seven Seas Lagoon and building hotels and such on top of it right up to the Magic Kingdom.

I hope the Guests on the north side of the BLT enjoy the view! I wonder what they'll be charging for a "Backstage View"?
 

fosse76

Well-Known Member
To my knowledge, there are no earthquake requirements for coasters.
A coaster at Magic Mountain or Knott's or Disneyland is no differently supported than one at Universal or Cedar Point or WDW.

That's actually NOT true. At least as far as Magic Mountain is concerned.
 

joel_maxwell

Permanent Resident of EPCOT
Nope. It would not have. It closed suddenly for a very important reason. One that would prohibit the ride from running anymore.


I disagree completely. DL's PotC is that great, to me. And I love the "up the waterfall" portion. Love it!


Good to know...I was unaware.
Very frustrated that i have never made it out there. I think i hear a "solo" trip calling my name. I might wait till DCA is fixed. sooo, somewhere around 2015? :D
 

Lee

Adventurer
Do a search for the Terminator coaster at SFMM. It's one mammoth footer, instead of hundreds of tiny ones. It's impressive.
Yeah, I've seen it, they're using a slab.
But, to my knowledge, that is unusual even for Magic Mountain.

Still not sure how earthquakes effect the types of supports used.
 

pheneix

Well-Known Member
Earthquake regulations in Japan have all but prohibited the construction of wooden coasters. The few that have been built have ridiculous support structures like Terminator at Magic Mountain.

In California I think there are a few examples of coasters having beefed up supports. Ghostrider at Knotts certainly does. I don't think the state has any actual regulations that dictate a roller coaster's construction one way or another though. The steel coasters certainly are not any different than their Florida counterparts.
 

jakeman

Well-Known Member
It might be an opinion, but it's at least one that seems to be a general consensus. Many people seem to agree that it is a very plain building, standard condo tower that you might see anywhere. I'm sure there were other designs considered for the new tower that looked much better and got nixed because this design could squeeze a couple more bucks out of people.
Consensus doesn't make fact. Also, I think there is more than likely no consensus or majority on opinions of the buildings. There have been people on either side of the arguement in this thread alone.

Just because it is your opinion does not make it the majority. The same goes for me.

Why did Cutler Beckett pop in my head just now?

Of course it's a 'good business decision', but so would filling in the Seven Seas Lagoon and building hotels and such on top of it right up to the Magic Kingdom.
That's a rather obtuse and beligerant example that only detracts from the validity of your arguement.

You and I both know that would be a bad decision as the company would never recoup the cost of filling the lagoon.

You may not like it, but I bet there are several thousand people who are looking forward to this opportunity.
 

joel_maxwell

Permanent Resident of EPCOT
Do a search for the Terminator coaster at SFMM. It's one mammoth footer, instead of hundreds of tiny ones. It's impressive.
Man, i have seen that... one would think that individual footers would do much better then a slab that can crack, but what the hell do i know. :D
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
Not true.

HoP's redo was going to be extensive no matter who won the election.


Can't believe I am saying this.... but I agree with you. HoP was long overdue, and this was coming, just awaiting a new Presidential addition to do the work in one fell swoop.
 

hokielutz

Well-Known Member
Why did Cutler Beckett pop in my head just now?

Of course it's a 'good business decision', but so would filling in the Seven Seas Lagoon and building hotels and such on top of it right up to the Magic Kingdom.

careful......

Its Lord Beckett now.... :lol:
 

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