Space Mountain track replacement questions

[epcotWSC]

...Words...

Toy Story Mania- A shooting attraction..based on Toy Story...wait a second? Ok, its a bit different but out of all the things to theme it after..all the Disney properties and ones they work close with...we get another Toy Story shooting attraction? That does not seem creative at all. And got a priority for Synergy with Toy Story 3.

...Words...

While I agree with much of what you say (and most of which has been stated here multiple times), I do think that Toy Story Mania is something that is a great addition (and more fun than Buzz too). Everything in that ride is Grade A. Not only is it extremely fun (especially for someone who's competitive like myself), the queue itself is probably my favorite in all of WDW. I got stuck waiting on line for that ride for probably an hour if not more last summer. I was having so much fun looking at all the stuff they had laid out in the queue that while the wait still seemed like a long time, it was much more enjoyable than most rides in the park. The games that I grew up playing, the talking Mr. Potato Head, just every little detail was fun and was quite awesome. If more rides were done with the kind of detail and creativity that TSM was done, I think there would be much less complaints.

It is sad that certain things are the way they are (although when I'm there I'll admit I don't care to notice them), but there are splashes of good that are thrown in with the bad. I know that some people love to focus on the bad, but that's not the whole picture. That said, looking at Space Mountain, what they're doing will be both great and disappointing at the same time. It's sad to see greed and cheapness being responsible for the ride in Florida (the most visited park in the world) being inferior to the one in California while pretty much summing up the management team's attitude towards the parks.

 

[tirian]

TSMM is a very solid D-ticket! Granted, I can play better games on my Wii, but the sets, effects, and spinning are much better than just spinning in a chair in my living room.

^^ EpcotWSC, you're right. I hate the fact that DL, which is legitimately a fabulous theme park, gets all the WDI attention while the MK—the main moneymaker—gets its budgets repeatedly slashed.

 

[Enigma]

The only GOOD thing happening at WDW right now is the Hall of Presidents redo (I think) and its only because Obama has become insanely popular and a huge cash-cow.

It almost seems like Liberty Square has its own team of Imagineers/management making sure the attractions in that section get good overhauls...

 

[Skyway]

I don't believe MK management is truly afraid of "complaints". The heat, the long lines, the overpriced food....all of that will generate as many or more comlaints than a SM closure. Disney deals with complaints every day. And they are skilled at making amends whenever possible.

So what are they TRULY afraid of by closing SM? Oh, I believe the fear is legitmate----and I'm certain it all relates to $$$--- I'm just trying to figure pit how.

Circuit City just collased this weekend. And that's small change compared to the major financial institutions that have evaporated. This has implcations greater than just "a bad economy". It's tangible proof that corporate decisions can make or break a company. People didn't stop going to Circuit City because it had old carpet or management opted against a paint job. Nor is it simply poor consumer spending, otherwise Best Buy, hhgregg, and other electronics stores would also be collapsing. How corporate leadership ran the company---in good times and bad--- determined Circuit City's ultimate fate.

My point of this is--- call them "cheap", call them "shortsighted", accuse them of only looking out for their bonuses----the undeniaable fact is that WDW leadership has kept their division financially strong even as other mighty corporations implode. They're doing something right. Sure you could debate whether current decisions will help or hurt future business. But you can't get to the future without surviving today first. And that, we all can agree, they are doing well.

So why are they supposedly scared to close Space Mountain? Perhaps the ride's absence will truly cost them visitors. (And before you try to compare this to the Disneyland SM rehab, remember that a DL visitor spends a fraction of what a WDW visitor spends). A closed SM could mean a postponed trip -- hurting attendance at all four parks, the hotels, restaurants, shops, recreation, etc.

Sure a SM closure won't deter ALL visitors. But even a 1% decline, when multiplied by the $2000 or more spend on a weekly WDW vacation, and then multiplied by EACH WEEK SM IS CLOSED, it will have a very significant financial impact. And in this economic cliamte, could a fiscially-responsible manager truly afford to ignore that??????

I don't know if the ultimate decision was right or wrong (heck, NO ONE here even knows what the decision is!). But it's ignorant to have this discussion without asking how such a closure will effect the bottom line (and with no bottom line, there would be no $$$ to do future improvements or additions. )

 

[jt04]

Nope, I don't think that at all.

I also have more things to do with my time than argue with people who know what they're talking about because "I" don't agree. Some people insist the moon landing was faked, too.

It's odd that everything I've said is 100% in line with Lee and Marni, yet this suddenly bothers you. I'm not claiming the magic doesn't exist anymore—I'm stating a fact that the mediocre management really escalated after the New Tomorrowland opened in 1994. That doesn't mean everything since then has been a bad idea, and I have never suggested that.

Please excuse me as I momentarily step away from the boards and return to my real, professional, highly paid life.

My point was not aimed at you either.

 

[jt04]

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And I agree with it, largely in theory. If WDW hadn't of built DAK its resources would not have been stretched so thinly. ...touchdown Eagles! ... oops, back to the post ... there's no doubt WDW is too big for its own good.

But since DAK is the second major reason I go to WDW (EPCOT being first), I am glad they built it.

Hey you got something 100% right. The Eagles did score a touchdown today!:lookaroun:lol:

 

[Enigma]

My point was not aimed at you either.

Why dont you just give it a rest and stop defending idotic management?

It's ok to have a differnet opinion but when all the insiders are telling you the facts and people on the outside like myself are saying the products value is declining you have to realize that there is a problem at Disney and it would be wrong for me or anyone else to blindly go along with it especially when they are asking so much money for their products.

 

[jt04]

Why dont you just give it a rest and stop defending idotic management?

Simple, Disney is a publicly traded company. The first priority is keeping the fiscal house in order. Management is doing a GREAT job of doing just that and NO layoffs have been announced either during these very difficult times! It's not realistic to think an internet forum poster is going to make an ounce of difference in how WDW is managed.

I have no problems with critisizing Disney's decisions when warrented. Been doing it for years right here on WDWMagic.

 

[CaptainMichael]

NO layoffs have been announced either during these very difficult times!

Orly?

Key word, announced.

I have no problems with critisizing Disney's decisions when warrented. Been doing it for years right here on WDWMagic.

Link?:lookaroun

 

[jt04]

Orly?

Key word, announced.



Link?:lookaroun

I guess that is a joke. If it is, it's very good. If not, just search my posts, there is plenty they could do better and when I think so I say so.

I don't have a secret agenda or vendetta so I am free to praise what they do right at WDW. And that is plenty. Plenty.

*applause:sohappy:*

 

[CaptainMichael]

I guess that is a joke. If it is, it's very good.

Thanks, I'm in a playful mood. No school tomorrow:sohappy:

 

[Mr.EPCOT]

There are many logistical reasons as to why that wouldn't have worked.

But the whole discussion is kind of ... how do I put it gently? ... Ah ... dumb.

Disney was never going to add live animals to the MK and, for lack of a better term, zoo-up the place.

It wouldn't have made any sense of so many reasons.

I don't honestly think it would have ever happened, the point I was trying to emphasize was that many of Animal Kingdom's experiences could have been built elsewhere, with a little bit of fanboy dreams of a combo Jungle Cruise/Kilimanjaro Safaris thrown in there for good measure. :lol: I know that doing such a thing would be prohibitively expensive, if even possible.

DAK exists because it is an amazing concept and a viable stand alone one. Its numbers have proven that. It's also one of the things that Disney has done so very right at WDW of late (even though it opened 11 years ago now!!!)

And that point has merit and legs ... the same could be said about DD Westside or the last 10,000 resort rooms built too.

And I agree with it, largely in theory. If WDW hadn't of built DAK its resources would not have been stretched so thinly. ...touchdown Eagles! ... oops, back to the post ... there's no doubt WDW is too big for its own good.


But since DAK is the second major reason I go to WDW (EPCOT being first), I am glad they built it.

You'll get no argument from me, Animal Kingdom is certainly a wonderful a park. The fanboy in me would also love to see DisneySea built here, too, but my rationale side just screams about what that would probably do to the rest of Walt Disney World. To think how WDW might be now if DAK hadn't been built certainly puts a damper on my enjoyment of that park.

As for those 10,000 hotel rooms, I think we all can agree that WDW could do with much less DVC, especially that new ugly Bay Lake Tower! Talk about brand erosion! And I don't think building Downtown Disney West Side at the sacrifice of Pleasure Island was such a bright idea. I don't have an issue with them having added a few more shops and restaurants, but it didn't need to be on that scale, and should have all been kept on the Marketplace side to prevent creating that Pleasure Island-sandwiching problem.

My point of this is--- call them "cheap", call them "shortsighted", accuse them of only looking out for their bonuses----the undeniaable fact is that WDW leadership has kept their division financially strong even as other mighty corporations implode. They're doing something right. Sure you could debate whether current decisions will help or hurt future business. But you can't get to the future without surviving today first. And that, we all can agree, they are doing well.

Except that they are totally just riding the success of everything that has been done before. They don't need to do anything to be financially successful, their predecessors have done all of the work to create an amazing product. It's like saying "Oh, the Eiffel Tower is still making great money, their management must be doing something right!" That's not really saying anything, people will want to visit it even if it was falling apart! The difference with Walt Disney World is that current management knows it will make money no matter what and is willing to cut quality to serve the bottom line. Everything is in place already to ensure people will visit for years to come, the cash will just keep rolling in. They are standing on the shoulders of giants, as it were.

 

[tirian]

Except that they are totally just riding the success of everything that has been done before. They don't need to do anything to be financially successful, their predecessors have done all of the work to create an amazing product. It's like saying "Oh, the Eiffel Tower is still making great money, their management must be doing something right!" That's not really saying anything, people will want to visit it even if it was falling apart! The difference with Walt Disney World is that current management knows it will make money no matter what and is willing to cut quality to serve the bottom line. Everything is in place already to ensure people will visit for years to come, the cash will just keep rolling in. They are standing on the shoulders of giants, as it were.

Also, the people pointing this out online are mostly CMs or folks with connections. The habitual complainers like Kevin Yee, who blamed Disney b/c he didn't know what to wear on a cruise (I'll never forget that one!), aren't being quoted here. We've got people who usually know what's going on suddenly becoming very upset—people who are usually optimistic, like Marni. That says something, don't you think?

 

[jt04]

Also, the people pointing this out online are mostly CMs or folks with connections. The habitual complainers like Kevin Yee, who blamed Disney b/c he didn't know what to wear on a cruise (I'll never forget that one!), aren't being quoted here. We've got people who usually know what's going on suddenly becoming very upset—people who are usually optimistic, like Marni. That says something, don't you think?

I just see it as Disney management going into a holding pattern while they determine what is happening with the economy. Some of the signs don't look good and I mean for everyone not just Disney.

So, Disney could green light many projects we have been hearing about but, who knows, that might be at the expense of personnel cutbacks. I think we can all agree nobody here wants to see rank and file folks losing their jobs. I'd rather wait on that SM outside lighting package myself.

And to leave on an encouraging note, refurbs are "business as usual". Just look at the list Master Yoda maintains.

 

[epcotWSC]

Circuit City just collased this weekend. And that's small change compared to the major financial institutions that have evaporated. This has implcations greater than just "a bad economy". It's tangible proof that corporate decisions can make or break a company. People didn't stop going to Circuit City because it had old carpet or management opted against a paint job. Nor is it simply poor consumer spending, otherwise Best Buy, hhgregg, and other electronics stores would also be collapsing. How corporate leadership ran the company---in good times and bad--- determined Circuit City's ultimate fate.

Possibly not, but the way a store looks does add to whether people enjoy going to a store or not. It adds to the total "experience." Best Buy stores are generally cleaner, better laid out, and much brighter. Also they tend to have better customer service (possibly paying their employees more, I'm not sure though).

Also, the decisions that management made for Circuit City set the wheels in motion for their demise years ago. The same can be said for Sears which did the same thing as CC and hasn't been a powerful retail chain in years as well. Once these companies took away commission sales they destroyed themselves (although Sears still has commissions in appliances and extremely low rate commissions in home improvement and electronics).

Why did this make a difference? Quite simply, customer service. Commission sales gives incentives to employees to know their products and to be as helpful as possible. Many people would be willing to pay a few extra dollars for the better service. Unfortunately, once you take that away, you can definitely see the difference in the quality of service you receive. All because management tries to cut costs by harming those employees who are the faces of their company. So once that happens, why would I want to go to Sears or CC when I can go to Walmart, pay less and get similar service? Why would I go to Sears or CC when I can just buy online? or better yet, go to Best Buy?


If management is going to make cuts to save the bottom line, they have to know where to make cuts and where not to. All cuts have a negative outcome, some worse than others. I see the same idea at Disney, some cuts are worse than others. Some things will cause a stir and drop customer satisfaction for the large majority (Fantasmic show cuts), others will go unnoticed by most (a burned out light bulb not being replaced).

The problem for many people here is that they expect a 10 when they go to Disney, and with more and more cuts, they aren't even getting a 9 or even an 8. Probably lower. The problem is, you can't make 5 cuts, and give 1 thing back and expect people who know better to be happy about it.

Just my interpretation of what I'm getting from people.

 

[jt04]

Possibly not, but the way a store looks does add to whether people enjoy going to a store or not. It adds to the total "experience." Best Buy stores are generally cleaner, better laid out, and much brighter. Also they tend to have better customer service (possibly paying their employees more, I'm not sure though).

Also, the decisions that management made for Circuit City set the wheels in motion for their demise years ago. The same can be said for Sears which did the same thing as CC and hasn't been a powerful retail chain in years as well. Once these companies took away commission sales they destroyed themselves (although Sears still has commissions in appliances and extremely low rate commissions in home improvement and electronics).

Why did this make a difference? Quite simply, customer service. Commission sales gives incentives to employees to know their products and to be as helpful as possible. Many people would be willing to pay a few extra dollars for the better service. Unfortunately, once you take that away, you can definitely see the difference in the quality of service you receive. All because management tries to cut costs by harming those employees who are the faces of their company. So once that happens, why would I want to go to Sears or CC when I can go to Walmart, pay less and get similar service? Why would I go to Sears or CC when I can just buy online? or better yet, go to Best Buy?


If management is going to make cuts to save the bottom line, they have to know where to make cuts and where not to. All cuts have a negative outcome, some worse than others. I see the same idea at Disney, some cuts are worse than others. Some things will cause a stir and drop customer satisfaction for the large majority (Fantasmic show cuts), others will go unnoticed by most (a burned out light bulb).

The problem for many people here is that they expect a 10 when they go to Disney, and with more and more cuts, they aren't even getting a 9 or even an 8. Probably lower. The problem is, you can't make 5 cuts, and give 1 thing back and expect people who know better to be happy about it.

Just my interpretation of what I'm getting from people.

You know I have always thought that if a company was poorly managed it was CC. They never really responded to BB's threat and that always amazed me. Always! I guess they thought BB was not in the same business. Weird.:shrug:

 

[jakeman]

As for those 10,000 hotel rooms, I think we all can agree that WDW could do with much less DVC, especially that new ugly Bay Lake Tower!

No we can't all agree on that. The hate that is being pilled on DVC is bandwagon nonsense, much like the railings against FastPass from a few months ago.

Do we even know that the DVC resorts are coming out of the WDW budget?

 

[Master Yoda]

As for those 10,000 hotel rooms, I think we all can agree that WDW could do with much less DVC, especially that new ugly Bay Lake Tower! Talk about brand erosion!

Providing that the rumor of it being half sold out already it true I think the stockholders would disagree.

 

[jt04]

Providing that the rumor of it being half sold out already it true I think the stockholders would disagree.

It's true.

And that building is nice imo. It's got a very sedate minimalist Zen look about it.

But most important, it' not about the views from the outside but rather the views from the inside looking out. PRETTY:sohappy:

 

[CaptainMichael]

Providing that the rumor of it being half sold out already it true I think the stockholders would disagree.

Yeah, but when looking at the success of BLT, we have to take into account where it is. Even I would buy DVC right next to the MK...if I were gonna buy into to DVC. I also would wonder how many are already existing owners. I'm not sure if I'm right about this or now, but aren't they still having trouble selling Saratoga Springs (and perhaps AKL)?

I'm glad it's halfway sold though because if BLT fails, there's something really wrong.

Now, back to JT04. As far as layoffs or things of that nature, I really don't feel comfortable saying anymore than, just because you haven't heard anything, doesn't mean that it isn't happening.