A lot of people still seem to think this is still a negotiation tactic on Sony's behalf to get Disney to agree to a worse deal not sure if its just fans in denial or maybe there could be something to it.
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Sony & MARVEL are friends again; Spider-Man is back in the MCU
- Thread starter Dead2009
- Start date
A lot of people still seem to think this is still a negotiation tactic on Sony's behalf to get Disney to agree to a worse deal not sure if its just fans in denial or maybe there could be something to it.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
I don't think so. I believe when the rights were revisited with Disney getting all of the merch money, the film rights were granted in perpetuity to Sony.
I'm surprisingly apathetic about this news. I enjoyed Spidey in the MCU and particularly liked Far From Home, but actually enjoy the idea of Marvel being able to spend time and attention on new/under the radar characters. I've seen plenty of Spider-Man in live action.
That said, I still think this is pandering and the two sides will eventually work out a deal. Both sides have more to gain by working together.
@AnotherDayAnotherDollar might be able to chime in here. But IIRC. This is from the amended contract in 2011. As far as we know this did not change in the 2015 amendment.
- SPE must commence production within 3 years 9 months and release it within 5 years 9 months after the release of preceding picture
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Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
So how will they deal with the cliffhanger ending to Far From Home?
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Well-Known Member
That is correct. A movie must be produced and started in the timeframe you mentioned or the rights revert. The 2011 merch deal was Disney giving Sony 280MM + up to 35MM backend per movie for their remaining 25% merch rights and Sony giving Disney 100MM for their film rights participation in the movies. The reversion rights are still in effect.
The rights are de facto in perpetuity because Sony ain't stopping making the movies, but in case they do then the rights revert. Rothman greenlit Fan4stic in 2015 so the rights wouldn't revert. It's not dissimilar to the theme park rights in Orlando where it's in perpetuity as long as it's in good standing, which of course it always will be as Comcast doesn't want it reverting.
Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
And then you have Universal sitting on Hulk's fim rights which hasn't seen a movie made in 11 years.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Well-Known Member
That's a completely different thing. Universal does not have production rights to Hulk movies. They have RoFR. That one seems to be in perpetuity and Disney would need to buy Universal out of that option, or produce a Hulk movie that would be distributed by Universal.
bclane
Well-Known Member
Does anyone think the fans will boycott future Sony Spidey movies if a deal isn’t made to keep him in the MCU? I mean, I’m not gonna lie, I’m still buying a ticket either way. But I just think a lot of people will be ed and this could really come back to bite them. Of course, if they make an epic next movie that fans absolutely love it may not matter. But even the slightest misstep will probably be blown completely out of proportion.
drod1985
Well-Known Member
As of today I won't be seeing solely Sony produced live action Spider-man films on opening night. I'll wait for reviews from trusted sources and then make a decision. Spider-verse is the only Spider-man film since 2004 that they've nailed on their own, and I'm not going to pay money to gamble on a so-so movie. If Marvel was involved it'd be guaranteed opening night seats for myself and my family, along with putting together a group of friends/family to tag along (as I do for most Marvel and all Star Wars movies).
I'm extremely inclined to say I won't see it at all, but I have a feeling my son is going to beg to see it, and I'll have to oblige.
doctornick
Well-Known Member
For me - if it's an MCU movie, I'm in the theater. They've earned my trust along with the larger connection means i'm committed (until such time as the quality significantly drops)
For a Sony Spider-Man film, they better wow be with the advertising and the word on the street. I didn't see ASM 2 or Venon in theaters and I sure as heck don't regret either of those choices.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
I'm sure it will have some impact. It will take away the "must see" element of Marvel's interconnected movies. How many people made a point of seeing Captain Marvel lest they miss part of the story leading into Endgame (and Disney cleverly didn't let audiences know that seeing it really wasn't necessary in that regard).
Sony is right to stand their ground though. It's unlikely the next Spider-Man will bomb completely. They're better off keeping 90% of the profits, even if the movie is 10% less successful for example. Being in the MCU just doesn't benefit them enough to meet Disney's ridiculous demand of a 50/50 split.
This was a win-win deal and Disney tried to flex their muscles. They gain nothing.
According to one story I read. Sony offered to sell Spiderman backb to Disney for 10 billion. I have to agree with Disney that it was too high a price. I wish a deal had been worked out. Sony was right it the Disney offer was 50% of the box office revenue. All I know is that only Sony and Disney know what the real offers were. The two companies should have been able to reach a deal. Disney will be fine without Spiderman and I hope Sony can figure out how to make a good Spiderman movie, I have my doubts. However, I wish Disney had found a way to buy the full Spiderman family rights back.
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
They have to make one movie every three years, or three within 8 years (I.e. two movies could be more than 3 years apart). Every time they make a new movie the calendar resets. If Sony does not meet this criteria, the rights fall back to Marvel. Any movie within the Spiderverse qualifies to restart the clock. (Based on the contract which was released by Wikileaks, which neither Sony nor Disney has confirmed to be the actual 2015 revision. Sony’s documents were hacked and released, and the document appears to be consistent with both companies behavior)
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Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
No reputable industry trade is reporting this, at all.
tbf this isn't the first time I've heard the $10 billion dollar price tag. Back during the Sony hack in 2014 one of the leaked emails said Sony valued the IP at $10 billion dollars. I'm pretty sure thats where the number originated from.
bartholomr4
Well-Known Member
Ya, one of the items in the 2015 agreement is Disney gets 100% of the “Classic” consumer products royalties and Sony and Marvel split the revenue for any movie related consumer product royalties where the movie includes Spider-man for (something like)90 days before release and while the movie is in theaters. They share a LLC corporation which collects the revenue and splits the take, during this period of time.
If Sony doesn’t renew the deal with Marvel and the MCU, this agreement is still in place, and Marvel/Disney would still get half of the consumer product revenue, as long as Spider-man is in the movie. If they make a series of movies where Spider-man shows up in the movie (even for a small token presence) Marvel splits half the consumer products revenue from the movie. Something large like Venom vs Spider-man could be huge, and Disney would take a huge penny for doing nothing.
Also of note (and a bunch of argument here on these boards) is how they split animation. Disney Marvel own the rights for any animation less than 70 minutes in length, and Sony gets anything longer than 70 minutes. For non-animated live action television shows the language is hard to understand, with some posters thinking Marvel and Sony can both make their own short run (hour long) live action episodes, and others thinking only Sony can make the short run live action flics.
Disney controls all of the park rights, but because Spider-Man is an Avenger so the Universal contract prevents him from being in the parks east of the Mississippi. Sony controls some rights around gaming, but does share some of the rights associated with games associated with a specific movie release.
I am not sure if it is still true but a couple years ago, Spider-man had been in the top 3 Consumer Royalty products for something like 10 years running. The “Classic” version of Spider-Man creates a huge stream of revenue which Sony never sees, and anything Sony does to improve the loyalty to the character goes right to Disney/Marvels bottom line. The revenue within a year often would dwarf the revenue made on a single movie, and the cost of licensing the character is a drop in the bucket compared to making a movie and ongoing residual payments. I think this is a big motivation behind the original 2015 agreement, and why in and 30/70 split with Sony, Disney still will take home more money over the course of a year than Sony will.
Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
Then sources that are reporting this as recent news are largely misleading.
AnotherDayAnotherDollar
Well-Known Member
IIRC that was some crazy talk from one of the execs valuing the whole IP at 10B, not just the movie rights. I don't think SM IP is worth 10B.
Where are you getting information from the 2015 agreement? I have looked for it multiple times and have never found it.
Sony does not get a share of any merchandise (including movie specific ones), with the exception of some very specific instances IIRC. That was part of the buyout in the 2011 amended contract. Disney bought Sony out of the 25% ownership they had on all Spider-man merch.
The 2011 amended contract also states that Marvel/Disney owns anything less than 44 minutes in length, not 70. Where are you getting 70 from?
For Live action TV, while this is not the amended contract, the language is pretty clear. Something may have changed, but until I see evidence I am taking this as the most up to date info.
Disney controls all of the park rights, but cannot release SM East of the Mississippi, like you said, or in Japan. The Japan one may expire as Universal does not have a Marvel Land there like they do at IoA.
Sony does not control anything related to SM - or any Marvel property - in gaming. The Spider-man game license, previously owned by Activision, expired and reverted back to Marvel in 2014. Other Marvel characters, such as Deadpool, have also expired and reverted back. The PS4 SM game is co copyright owned by Sony and Marvel. Similar to how Star Wars EA games are co copyright owned by Lucas and EA. Reason being the publisher usually owns the copyright to the game code while the licensor own the rights to the story, characters, etc for the game.
You are right that SM classic merch is a consistent high seller. It does boost up whenever a movie releases, but it boosts up just as well under a bad movie like Amazing 2. Email leaks and the licensing letter have given us insight on those.