Soarin' and The Land changes - what is your opinion?

[CTXRover]

CTXRover, no, don't hold back, tell us how you really feel! :lol:

I hope I didn't come across as rude or overbearing. I didn't mean to come across that way. I started writing that whole long spiel when I realized that one of the few negative things that I wanted to see improved on in the pavilion was the only thing quoted in the recent review from Grizz's D-troops. I am honored to be quoted, don't get me wrong, but was surprised to see my opinion distorted to further what seemed to be a negative review of the new design. Its probably apparent now to all ( ) that I don't just like, but love the new design, as does the majority here it seems (so far). I'll agree though with the arguments of the new design's critics that its sort of lost its earthy feel and cozyness. But not completely and the end result is fantastic in my mind, more in tune with the 21st century and future world, and remains true to celebrating the richness of The Land with sights, smells, tastes (and hopefully sounds....there's a better sound system in there anyways that hasn't been turned on yet to my knowledge). It has a lot dealing with the land, much of it more apparent than anything I noticed in the old version, imo. And when you put the whole package together, the Land is better than ever.

 

[CTXRover]

The music was folksy and relaxing, and while there were crowds at times, the crowdedness was balanced with a serene fountain and a sense of peacefulness conveyed by the deep, rich colors and the "homey" ambience.

You'd never guess there was that level of peacefulness on the really crowded days when it seemed there was a lack of adequate seating, difficulty navigating through the seating areas with no real pathways, the fighting for tables and people falling over the low stools j/k

Seriously though, I miss the fountain and the peaceful serenity running water creates, but the "deep, rich colors" of the pavilion didn't scream "homey" to me. I always found it dark, dreary and sort of dated in appearance. Something I didn't even give much thought to until I stepped inside the new, brighter, modern and inviting look embracing the Land's natural forces of the 4 seasons.

 

[Wckd Queen]

Very good insights, Epcot82Guy! But the former theming represented symbiosis in an even more general, more apparent sense. The elements of nature as represented in the "old land" (flowing water, suns and flowers on the table canopies) were a lot more richly and deeply colored and provided a more celebratory view of nature. It was playful and joyous, and it had its own sense of liveliness and humor. What we see today is less joyous and lively but more stylish and modern - - without the same *unique* charms.

The Sunshine Season Food Fair was also more "homey," and its theming represented a more intimate connection between man and the land. The stations were set up like farmhouses, painted with images of vegetables, and gave a sense of nostalgia in recalling old country-style food markets. The pavilion played to the past in this way, but in a good sense! Our most harmonious relationships with the land occurred long ago during the age of the farmer - - and the pavilion was meant to showcase new technologies and new ways of obtaining our food supply, but also while showing us how to keep that same respect for our land. This is the source of the *joy* of the older pavilion. The new theming doesn't show the "simple life," the essential harmonious relationship between men and women and the land they depend on. The theming was influenced by gardening, also - - and gardening is an art that still carries with it a respect for the land's beauty.

The new theming is not in tune with this homey, intimate sort of spirit. The new food court is contemporary and "fast-paced" in its design, no longer hearkening back to the more rich relationships that we enjoyed with our land. The pavilion continues to focus on new technologies and still offers a tour of the greenhouses via Living with the Land, yet it is this "simple life" spirit that the new pavilion lacks and yet truly needs to convey its full message. Everything looks white, clean, and industrialized. We have the concept of "modernity," but we lack that relaxed, simple life, earth-connected atmosphere. The decor is more streamlined - - patterns on the table, colored carpet, tree-like light structures. . . but the pavilion lacks the old sincerity and depth of spirit with the complete change in decor and theme.

The old pavilion was one of simple pleasures. The music was folksy and relaxing, and while there were crowds at times, the crowdedness was balanced with a serene fountain and a sense of peacefulness conveyed by the deep, rich colors and the "homey" ambience. But when the new pavilion becomes crowded, there will be little to balance the frantic elements. There is little that is lively or joyful or nourishing in the new whiteness or metallic flourishes. The benches that were around throughout the 1980s and 1990s on the upper level have been removed. Why? Because The Land is no longer the enriching place to relax and ponder and enjoy the truly simple pleasures. The style reflects the modern pace of life, and the new food court looks like most others in an airport terminal: FUNCTIONAL rather than conveying deep thematic meaning or significance.

The quality of life has completely changed, and The Land has lost an important part of its message. The simple, beautiful, intimate relationships with our land are no longer part of the atmosphere, and it will be a tremendous loss to the pavilion and its important, nourishing, mind-and-soul-feeding message of symbiosis.

This is all well and good, Buzzy, but much of what you are saying regarding your objection to the new designe is quite subjective.

To say that the food court was "homey" is just an opinion. While you view it as "homey", there are those of us who viewed it as cramped. The music to you was "folksy and relaxing", but that doesnt mean it affected everyone in the same manner.

You cite the Land as a place "to relax and ponder and enjoy the truly simple pleasures", and that is fine. But...what has this to do with theming? I have sat at a table in front of the bakery on Main Street, relaxing and pondering.

My point here is that this is all very very subjective. What one person enjoys or finds insitefrul, others may not. Some people will like the new pavilion, others will not. There is no right or wrong. There are only opinions. My suggestion is that everyone go to the Land, take in the newness and ENJOY!

 

[DarkMeasures]

You'd never guess there was that level of peacefulness on the really crowded days when it seemed there was a lack of adequate seating, difficulty navigating through the seating areas with no real pathways, the fighting for tables and people falling over the low stools j/k

Seriously though, I miss the fountain and the peaceful serenity running water creates, but the "deep, rich colors" of the pavilion didn't scream "homey" to me. I always found it dark, dreary and sort of dated in appearance. Something I didn't even give much thought to until I stepped inside the new, brighter, modern and inviting look embracing the Land's natural forces of the 4 seasons.

I always found the land to be supercrowded on the bottom floor and a pain in the back to get food at and yet I also found the pavilian too empty at the same time. I guess that is what happens though with such a huge open ceiling. But I always hated the farm theming with a passion. Living with the Land is enough. There are many other more important aspects of nature needed to be brought out. Such as beauty. I think the new design does that about 100 times better than the old design.

 

[dxwwf3]

Grizz, there are more important things to worry about (CoP, Timekeeper, Stich) than The Land. It's obvious WDI did a good job and the metal railings you always complain about are just as un-Land like as the colored pavement from previous incarnations of the land.

You've got a point there. I might personally prefer the look of the old Land, but I don't have that many problems with the new look at all. There are certainly bigger battles to be faught over at the Magic Kingdom, in my opinion.

 

[mickhyperion]

I'm very happy that "homey" and "folksy" are not part of the new design. This is Future World, not Frontierland.

 

[SpectroMan]

I may be the only one, but I think The Land was much more seperated when Food Rocks was in there. You had learning about the land and learning about nutrition. Isn't nutrition part of Wonders of Life?

Next point, I don't see the new design as taking away the thoughts of the Land. It is just changing the vehicle of that thought. The new desing is a modern view of the Earth. Just because you have to think about the "symbiosis" more, doesn't mean that it isn't there.

 

[Lee]

Ya know what I hate...the notion that the whole pavillion suffers because there is no strong emphasis on "symbiosis".
I couldn't care less about symbiosis.
I don't want to "learn" at Epcot.
I don't want to be lectured to.

I just want to be entertained...and the new design, along with the addition of Soarin, delivers on that better than the "old Land" did.

But that's just me.....

 

[Pioneer Hall]

While I do like the changes that have occured in the pavilion, I do agree that it seems like there are two totally different atmospheres in the pavilion now. You have the natural atmosphere of the Land mixed with the busy trendy airport. Although I am happy about the expanded seating, I think the pavilion is a little "hectic" now.

 

[speck76]

Very good insights, Epcot82Guy! But the former theming represented symbiosis in an even more general, more apparent sense. The elements of nature as represented in the "old land" (flowing water, suns and flowers on the table canopies) were a lot more richly and deeply colored and provided a more celebratory view of nature. It was playful and joyous, and it had its own sense of liveliness and humor. What we see today is less joyous and lively but more stylish and modern - - without the same *unique* charms.

The Sunshine Season Food Fair was also more "homey," and its theming represented a more intimate connection between man and the land. The stations were set up like farmhouses, painted with images of vegetables, and gave a sense of nostalgia in recalling old country-style food markets. The pavilion played to the past in this way, but in a good sense! Our most harmonious relationships with the land occurred long ago during the age of the farmer - - and the pavilion was meant to showcase new technologies and new ways of obtaining our food supply, but also while showing us how to keep that same respect for our land. This is the source of the *joy* of the older pavilion. The new theming doesn't show the "simple life," the essential harmonious relationship between men and women and the land they depend on. The theming was influenced by gardening, also - - and gardening is an art that still carries with it a respect for the land's beauty.

The new theming is not in tune with this homey, intimate sort of spirit. The new food court is contemporary and "fast-paced" in its design, no longer hearkening back to the more rich relationships that we enjoyed with our land. The pavilion continues to focus on new technologies and still offers a tour of the greenhouses via Living with the Land, yet it is this "simple life" spirit that the new pavilion lacks and yet truly needs to convey its full message. Everything looks white, clean, and industrialized. We have the concept of "modernity," but we lack that relaxed, simple life, earth-connected atmosphere. The decor is more streamlined - - patterns on the table, colored carpet, tree-like light structures. . . but the pavilion lacks the old sincerity and depth of spirit with the complete change in decor and theme.

The old pavilion was one of simple pleasures. The music was folksy and relaxing, and while there were crowds at times, the crowdedness was balanced with a serene fountain and a sense of peacefulness conveyed by the deep, rich colors and the "homey" ambience. But when the new pavilion becomes crowded, there will be little to balance the frantic elements. There is little that is lively or joyful or nourishing in the new whiteness or metallic flourishes. The benches that were around throughout the 1980s and 1990s on the upper level have been removed. Why? Because The Land is no longer the enriching place to relax and ponder and enjoy the truly simple pleasures. The style reflects the modern pace of life, and the new food court looks like most others in an airport terminal: FUNCTIONAL rather than conveying deep thematic meaning or significance.

The quality of life has completely changed, and The Land has lost an important part of its message. The simple, beautiful, intimate relationships with our land are no longer part of the atmosphere, and it will be a tremendous loss to the pavilion and its important, nourishing, mind-and-soul-feeding message of symbiosis.

I am not sure where you ever got the idea that The Land pavilion was supposed to represent any of what you claim it did.....I have not been able to verify any of your claims in any of the Epcot produced books.

 

[mickhyperion]

...I do agree that it seems like there are two totally different atmospheres in the pavilion now. You have the natural atmosphere of the Land mixed with the busy trendy airport...

A reflection of our modern day society juxtaposed with nature, perhaps, and we are the link between the two.

On another note, funny that no one ever says that the hydroponic gardens are too modern or sterile.

 

[KumbaRider]

For those of you who are still complaining, I can understand. However, I must argue that whatever changes are made you will still find something to complain about. Please accept the fact that 1: the pavillion isn't done yet, and 2: imagineering knows what they are doing, they don't just slap things together(most of the time).....of course with that statement you'll start listing the things they "did too quickly".....and have spent a lot of time trying to make this all come together, and I must say, as fearful as I was, I am quite impressed with the new look.

 

[Brooke]

I love the changes! I was very impressed when I saw it. And, of course, I think Soarin' is a wonderful addition to the Land!

 

[dxwwf3]

While I do like the changes that have occured in the pavilion, I do agree that it seems like there are two totally different atmospheres in the pavilion now. You have the natural atmosphere of the Land mixed with the busy trendy airport. Although I am happy about the expanded seating, I think the pavilion is a little "hectic" now.

I'm glad someone else sees this too.

The look is definately growing on me as time goes on. I'm actually really excited to see it in person. But you can't deny that there is some serious schizophrenia going on.

 

[wannab@dis]

I am not sure where you ever got the idea that The Land pavilion was supposed to represent any of what you claim it did.....I have not been able to verify any of your claims in any of the Epcot produced books.

:wave:

You're fighting a lost battle here. People seem to think they have "figured" out what WDI "meant" for the pavilion to convey. I have a feeling nobody would be fully correct. Many teams at WDI created sections of the pavilion / attractions and they were added to a space put together by an architectural team. Sure, a little work by the interior decorating team accomplished a "synergy" across the pavilion, but let's not get carried away.

This symbiosis nonsense is just pure fantasy.

 

[Pongo]

What I don't understand is how people don't see the symbiosis theme. I happen to think it's staring us all in the face.

There are now two main "parts" to the pavilion - Soarin' and the nature aspect, i.e. Living with the Land. Imagineers apparently decided to go off on the Airport tangent for Soarin', but still had to keep the nature aspect, as it is The Land.

I think their integration and flow from a "Travel Agency" to a green house was flawless. They took something totally modern and technological and melded it with nature, something totally primordial and ancient.

The lighting fixtures are a perfect example of this. I like to take the unpopular view of them as clouds (in comparison to trees). The interpretation of something as abstract as clouds in the form of abstract art is genius in my opinion. I think the whole theme of abstractness was an excellent choice by WDI. Nature is most random, abstract, mysterious concept known to man.

Sorry to use "abstract" so many times in the previous paragraph.

In summary: Symbiosis is everywhere in The Land. WDI realized the connection between the modern airport and the antiquity of nature. They made the two concepts work of each other and help each other. They integrated symbiosis in a place where others could have tossed the concept aside.

I applaud them for it.

And I'm off the soap box.

 

[CTXRover]

I may be the only one, but I think The Land was much more seperated when Food Rocks was in there. You had learning about the land and learning about nutrition. Isn't nutrition part of Wonders of Life?

You are not alone. I've said this on a number of occasions and I know quite a few other members here have said this as well. Food Rocks did not fit into a pavilion about the land. The only link it had was that some of the food discussed in the show was grown from the land. The point of that show though was about good nutrition, not plant or vegetable growing.

Personally, I would love to see a new WOL pavilion next. Let the team that worked on the Land tackle this project next, imo. They proved to me they know how to revitalize a pavilion the right way. I like Cranium Command, but its characters are incredibly dated. In its place, I would recreate a version of Kitchen Kabaret or Food Rocks. Now that would make me and Epcot purists very happy.

 

[speck76]

You are not alone. I've said this on a number of occasions and I know quite a few other members here have said this as well. Food Rocks did not fit into a pavilion about the land. The only link it had was that some of the food discussed in the show was grown from the land. The point of that show though was about good nutrition, not plant or vegetable growing.

Personally, I would love to see a new WOL pavilion next. Let the team that worked on the Land tackle this project next, imo. They proved to me they know how to revitalize a pavilion the right way. I like Cranium Command, but its characters are incredibly dated. In its place, I would recreate a version of Kitchen Kabaret or Food Rocks. Now that would make me and Epcot purists very happy.

Kitchen Kabaret was only created because Kraft wanted something focused on nutrition.

 

[speck76]

:wave:

You're fighting a lost battle here. People seem to think they have "figured" out what WDI "meant" for the pavilion to convey. I have a feeling nobody would be fully correct. Many teams at WDI created sections of the pavilion / attractions and they were added to a space put together by an architectural team. Sure, a little work by the interior decorating team accomplished a "synergy" across the pavilion, but let's not get carried away.

This symbiosis nonsense is just pure fantasy.

So....these people are upset because the story that they themselves fabricated is no longer represented?

WOW :hammer:

 

[diddy_mouse]

unfortunately i have yet to see the new pavillion (and i won't til Oct) but i can say that i welcome a change to The Land and feel that Soarin' might help it grow (i mean that in a poetic sense). i am very anxious to see the changes!