So, You Want to be an Imagineer Season 18 HYPE THREAD!

[Pi on my Cake]

I wonder what the attraction will be called. And since it takes place after the first movie, will Dr. Facilier be present?

My first instinct based on what they told us is an epilogue ride like Frozen Ever After. And the plot they gave us doesn't include any hints at a villain or conflict. But Dr F taking over the Laughing Place and the "Are you ready" chanting part of Friend on the Other Side as you go up the lift hill would be really cool

 

[Brer Panther]

Soooooooo, basically, what I'm getting at here is that everyone hates Splash Mountain now and that anyone who DOES like it is racist?

 

[NateD1226]

I wonder what the attraction will be called. And since it takes place after the first movie, will Dr. Facilier be present?

I'm guessing its mostly about them planning a Mardi Gras party like the article stated. But I think the lift-hill will be the ending of Dig a Little Deeper.

 

[Disney Dad 3000]

I'll post more full thoughts later, but I think this is a dumb move using the current climate to disguise a cheap cash grap IP overlay of a classic. If this was about inclusivity or racism, they would've fixed the mistakes of the past and given the Brers a proper adaptation by black creators instead of erasing one of the last examples of African folklore in pop culture. Remember, Brer Rabbit pre-dates Song of the South and could have easily been updated to outlive it if this was about inclusivity. The whole IP could've been reclaimed and become a celebration of the folklore of early African Americans instead of just being forgotten and hidden away.

No. This is Mission Break Out or Incredi-Coaster with a timed announcement for good PR. And I think visually and thematically that concept art is a poor fit for it's location at WDW. It doesn't look like it will blend into the surrounding area and the jazz music the movie is known for won't flow with the country/folk/western music Fronteirland is known for. This is a shoehorned in IP that they'll probably bend to fit just enough like GotG in Epcot.

Don't get me wrong, I love PatF and think it deserves a ride. And I understand the reasoning behind this decision. And I'm sure the new ride will be great (Tony Baxter is involved which is always a good sign and there is clearly a ton of passion). But I fully disagree with this decision and think it is dumb and I don't give Disney any progressive brownie points for this when they could have actually fixed mistakes of the past rather than just pretend they never happened.

This is where I'm with it and you worded it perfectly.

I really hate to see it go, as a white guy though, I have no way to understand how I would feel if my skin was a different color. All I can, and should do is continue to be open, and listen.

What bugs me more than losing splash is this whole process. "Refresh/overlays" will never have the potential of new builds. Maybe they'll prove me wrong but I know how often we bemoan Disney adding by subtraction instead of just adding. I would love to see a PATF attraction. The park needs diversity. There are some great tunes and it could be a fun ride. Heck, I was on a team that came up with a pretty solid one a few years ago. But build it from the ground up and don't shoehorn it. If you are determined to change splash, do as you suggested and enlist the same imagineers leading PATF, or I don't know, come up with something original that fits the attraction that's there.

 

[NigelChanning]

I think it would be cool if we saw Dr. Facilier at the end of the ride and the smoke effect from Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Crystal Skull in Tokyo was used. I can’t include a video of the effect but someone may know what I’m talking about.

 

[Suchomimus]

omg...

New Adventures with Princess Tiana Coming to Disneyland Park and Magic Kingdom Park

Today we are thrilled to share a first glimpse of a project Imagineers have been working on since last year. Splash Mountain – at both Disneyland park in California and Magic Kingdom park in Florida – will soon be completely reimagined. The theme

disneyparks.disney.go.com

While I do wish Princess and the Frog could've gotten something more than a retheme; maybe Tiana's Palace; WDW's Splash Mountain was rethemed into something more Western related and Disney never made Song of the South and instead adapting Uncle Remus Stories into its own mini-series, on the other hand, I'm glad that Tony Baxter, Tiana's original voice actress; Anika Noni Rose; and Charita Carter; who also spearheaded M&M's RRy are behind this project and I'm confident this will be a worthy successor.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

I learned the history of Brer Rabbit and how it pre-dates Uncle Remus and Song of the South from black Disney fans and fellow cast members back when I worked there. It was what turned me onto the idea of reclaim over replace in the first place. Of course, we're both just two white guys debating what we think black people would want based on something we've heard from black people in the community we don't personally know. So, neither of us can claim any authority really.

I never put too much stock in Twitter reactions since it is a site with a notoriously terrible, over-reactionary community. Especially the much maligned DisTwitter community. The reaction I've seen from POC friends and Disney fans of mine has been significantly more mixed. Same on other social media sites. Even if mostly everyone gets it, not everyone agrees this was the best course of action. Even Twitter gets more mixed in the reactions for POC Disney fans once you get past the top layer of popular influencers and overwhelmingly majority of white people trending. Heck, even what you posted, two were the same guy and two were just about a PatF ride with no real connection to Splash itself.

I do understand and fully agree that something had to be done to address Splash Mountain and it's heritage. I just don't think this was the best option for that and that Disney is just using the current to cover up the backlash of replacing a classic, (essentially) IP ride with a much more marketable and merchandisable IP that doesn't fit the land it is in. Modern Disney Imagineerings go to move that always gets significant backlash, but now Disney can hide behind looking progressive.

Again, I have no doubt in my mind the new ride will be fantastic even if it clashes with the surrounding area (Splash was not a perfect fit either, but it did fit visually and tonally. Plus, the music and time period lined up a LOT better). I just feel this is Mission Break Out on both coasts disguised as something progressive. Rather than actually trying to address the issues and fix past mistakes or do better.

Indeed. I'd LOVE to hear from our POC members on what they think of this because ultimately, I think we can only educate ourselves in a vacuum so much and we can debate this till the end of time but, as you said, we're two white dudes having this conversation.

Soooooooo, basically, what I'm getting at here is that everyone hates Splash Mountain now and that anyone who DOES like it is racist?

I don't think anyone is saying that in earnest. It's more the issue of the very problematic source material.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

As I said earlier, if Critter Country at Disneyland eventually gets transformed into an extension of NOS, along with Winnie the Pooh being replaced by a better attraction, even if the ride turns out to be terrible (not saying it will be), It'll be an overall plus to Disneyland.

Plus I expect Tokyo's excellent SM won't be replaced for a while if you're that desperate for it.

For WDW, I wish PatF got it's own new ride (let's say in Fantasyland) and Frontierland got something new that feels appropriate to Frontierland. Not to say SM didn't have this problem (country western music fixes the thematic inconsistencies Yee haw!), but I do wish they would fix it for its replacement.

 

[spacemt354]

This is where I'm with it and you worded it perfectly.

I really hate to see it go, as a white guy though, I have no way to understand how I would feel if my skin was a different color. All I can, and should do is continue to be open, and listen.

What bugs me more than losing splash is this whole process. "Refresh/overlays" will never have the potential of new builds. Maybe they'll prove me wrong but I know how often we bemoan Disney adding by subtraction instead of just adding. I would love to see a PATF attraction. The park needs diversity. There are some great tunes and it could be a fun ride. Heck, I was on a team that came up with a pretty solid one a few years ago. But build it from the ground up and don't shoehorn it. If you are determined to change splash, do as you suggested and enlist the same imagineers leading PATF, or I don't know, come up with something original that fits the attraction that's there.

Sydney Disneyland Resort - A Project By Club 32

Sydney Disneyland Resort An Imagineering Project by Club 32 Overview Sydney Disneyland Resort is the first Australian Disney Resort and 4th continent Walt Disney Parks and Resorts have landed on. With the international hub of Sydney a stones throw away from the resort, this resort will not only...

forums.wdwmagic.com

Original flipbook is down but the basis of the PATF attraction is in the link. It lends itself well to attractions, especially a bayou water ride, and if it's a step in the right direction sure. What affects me more personally and I'm sure many others is this attraction was one of the first 'big kid' rides, and one that the family tends to go on together. And especially since the attraction is probably the most popular on-ride photo in the park it lends itself to so many memories over the years.

The IP wasn't the memory, but the 'attraction' was, so that'll take some time to process but given how quick of a turnaround this got, I'd expect this is not the last change in the parks, especially when there are other attractions that have scenes/themes that didn't age well but are still nostalgic attractions.

 

[NigelChanning]

As I said earlier, if Critter Country at Disneyland eventually gets transformed into an extension of NOS, along with Winnie the Pooh being replaced by a better attraction, even if the ride turns out to be terrible (not saying it will be), It'll be an overall plus to Disneyland.

Plus I expect Tokyo's excellent SM won't be replaced for a while if you're that desperate for it.

For WDW, I wish PatF got it's own new ride (let's say in Fantasyland) and Frontierland got something new that feels appropriate to Frontierland. Not to say SM didn't have this problem (country western music fixes the thematic inconsistencies Yee haw!), but I do wish they would fix it for its replacement.

I would’ve honestly preferred the Western River Expedition that Big Thunder Mountain was based on.

 

[mickeyfan5534]

For WDW, I wish PatF got it's own new ride (let's say in Fantasyland) and Frontierland got something new that feels appropriate to Frontierland. Not to say SM didn't have this problem (country western music fixes the thematic inconsistencies Yee haw!), but I do wish they would fix it for its replacement.

Honestly, BTM aside (which wasn’t exactly a perfect blend with Splash in the first place), PatF will fit surprisingly well into Frontierland with the steamship, Rivers of America, and TSI.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

I would’ve honestly preferred the Western River Expedition that Big Thunder Mountain was based on.

I was going to mention WRE, but I could see that being controversial, just because the offensive Native American depictions have become so associated with it. The plans for WRE by WDW's opening had already removed all those stereotypes, but I could see it being controversial just because of that early concept art.

To armchair something on the spot, I'd go with a Nature's Wonderland 2.0 to replace Splash at WDW.

 

[NigelChanning]

I was going to mention WRE, but I could see that being controversial, just because the offensive Native American depictions have become so associated with it. The plans for WRE by WDW's opening had already removed all those stereotypes, but I could see it being controversial just because of that early concept art.

To armchair something on the spot, I'd go with a Nature's Wonderland 2.0 to replace Splash at WDW.

The hard part is knowing how offensive does it have to be to be removed. Peter Pan and Dumbo all have very racist depictions of minorities but their attractions are still there.

 

[Sharon&Susan]

The hard part is knowing how offensive does it have to be to be removed. Peter Pan and Dumbo all have very racist depictions of minorities but their attractions are still there.

I have a feeling that Peter Pan will be in hot water someday even if they remove the Native Neverlanders (which I expect to see on both coasts by the 50th anniversary). A good portion of the original movie is about hunting for "savages", singing about "What makes the Red Man red" and white actors talking like Tonto.

If Splash Mountain can get cancelled for the movie it's based on, I see the same for Peter Pan. And even if PPF isn't my favorite Fantasyland dark ride, I'm afraid of them touching with the nearby wonderful Toad or Alice.

 

[NigelChanning]

I have a feeling that Peter Pan will be in hot water someday even if they remove the Native Neverlanders (which I expect to see on both coasts by the 50th anniversary). A good portion of that movie is about hunting for "savages", singing about "What makes the Red Man red" and white actors talking like Tonto.

If Splash Mountain can get cancelled for the movie it's based on, I see the same for Peter Pan. And even if PPF isn't my favorite Fantasyland dark ride, I'm afraid of them touching with the nearby wonderful Toad or Alice.

Not to mention, Dumbo has a huge presence in Storybook Circus. I honestly don’t know what is too much. I’m all for correcting rides with racist undertones but I’m super sentimental to PPF and I’d hate to see it go.

 

[Pi on my Cake]

I have a feeling that Peter Pan will be in hot water someday even if they remove the Native Neverlanders (which I expect to see on both coasts by the 50th anniversary). A good portion of that movie is about hunting for "savages", singing about "What makes the Red Man red" and white actors talking like Tonto.

If Splash Mountain can get cancelled for the movie it's based on, I see the same for Peter Pan. And even if PPF isn't my favorite Fantasyland dark ride, I'm afraid of them touching with the nearby wonderful Toad or Alice.

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a new animated Peter Pan (soft reboot/sequel) to try to future proof the franchise. Peter and Tinkerbell and Neverland all too iconic to Disney as a whole to go away completely. I could definitely see the Native American stuff taken out of the ride pretty easily without effecting anything though.

 

[NigelChanning]

I was going to mention WRE, but I could see that being controversial, just because the offensive Native American depictions have become so associated with it. The plans for WRE by WDW's opening had already removed all those stereotypes, but I could see it being controversial just because of that early concept art.

To armchair something on the spot, I'd go with a Nature's Wonderland 2.0 to replace Splash at WDW.

If it’s considered racist even though it was removed from the concept art, I’m also wondering if Aladdin is in danger. There was one verse in the opening song, Arabian Nights, that was pretty offensive to Middle Eastern culture. The verse was removed but, like I said, nothing is impossible.

 

[Pi on my Cake]

Plus I expect Tokyo's excellent SM won't be replaced for a while if you're that desperate for it.

Last negative thing I'll say because I don't like to be negative, especially here.

BUT

Didn't realize that about Tokyo. Tokyo keeping their Splash Mountain the same is all the proof I need that this isn't done for "inclusivity" or "diversity" and is not a decision based on moving past ties to a problematic and racist film or fix the mistakes of their past. If it was something Disney wanted to cut ties with, they wouldn't leave it in one of their biggest international parks. This is just another IP overlay to create something more "marketable" and "Disney" using the current climate to defend it from any criticism. I could be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. And I'm sure the new ride will be amazing just like Mission Break Out and frozen Ever After are both pretty great. And I definitely appreciate that this will mean a lot to people even if I think there were better and more meaningful ways to address their problematic past without scrapping Splash. BUT them keeping Tokyo just screams to me that this is nothing but another in a long line of Iger style overlays of classic attractions (coupled with his "replace instead of expand" mentality) disguised as something more.

 

[JokersWild]

Last negative thing I'll say because I don't like to be negative, especially here.

BUT

Didn't realize that about Tokyo. Tokyo keeping their Splash Mountain the same is all the proof I need that this isn't done for "inclusivity" or "diversity" and is not a decision based on moving past ties to a problematic and racist film or fix the mistakes of their past. If it was something Disney wanted to cut ties with, they wouldn't leave it in one of their biggest international parks. This is just another IP overlay to create something more "marketable" and "Disney" using the current climate to defend it from any criticism. I could be wrong. I'd love to be wrong. And I'm sure the new ride will be amazing just like Mission Break Out and frozen Ever After are both pretty great. And I definitely appreciate that this will mean a lot to people even if I think there were better and more meaningful ways to address their problematic past without scrapping Splash. BUT them keeping Tokyo just screams to me that this is nothing but another in a long line of Iger style overlays of classic attractions (coupled with his "replace instead of expand" mentality) disguised as something more.

I think the real question is how popular the film was in Japan. That, and I’m sure that SotS isn’t seen as problematic in Japan. BLM is just barely starting to hit the Japanese consciousness.

TDL is oddly stuck in the past anyway.

 

[TheOriginalTiki]

Here's my copy and pasted response from my Facebook post. Not trying to start any political arguments, of course. Genuinely speaking I'm absolutely all for the renovation in Disneyland considering Splash Mountain's proximity to New Orleans Square, but I very much question how the WDW equilvent will work out with their Splash being smack dab in the middle of Frontierland with no connecting thematic ties in sight.

Alright, let's talk Splash Mountain since I'm sure at least a few of you are curious about my thoughts on this whole thing. The ride is a classic. We all know it, most of us love it. The fact of the matter is though, even outside of its obviously questionable source material, the Disneyland version of the attraction was pretty much falling apart at this point anyways.

Countless AAs that didn't move, missed lighting cues, and just a general state of disrepair. You have to remember, most of the Animatronics in the Disneyland version with the exception of the Brer characters are pushing 50 years old at this point, having been recycled from the old America Sings show.

While I'd love for Disney to reclaim the Brer characters as staples of African American folklore without the clear connotations that come with Song of the South, I welcome Princess and the Frog and think it's a strong IP to tie together the general vibes of Frontierland, Critter Country, and ESPECIALLY New Orleans Square right around the corner. Ya can't deny that thematic consistency. I'm more worried for the WDW version and its placement smack dab in the middle of Frontierland, but that's another can of worms.

Disneyland however, the placement is perfect and I'm genuinely excited to have a Haunted Mansion haunted by the "friends from the other side" right around the corner from a Princess and the Frog E-Ticket. It's those sorts of transitions that make me love Disney to begin with. Plus, who am I to say no to a passionate Tony Baxter?

I'll ALWAYS cherish my memories with Splash Mountain, but I'm also a firm believer that no attraction is forever and I'm genuinely excited to see what the Imagineers can come up with.