So sad!

[olinecoach61]

Thank god the boy is ok. Pools scare the beans out of me now that I have a child.

 

[unkadug]

I would agree that the child's health is the most important factor.. And I choose to not share any details beyond what is out there because it could compromise certain individuals..

The parents threw caution to the wind here, it happens a lot.. thankfully it doesn't seem to be a fatal mistake here..

They'll surely never forgive themselves for what happened, and that's enough for me..

"First hand" means you saw it yourself in person--no research.

"Second hand" is when you get information from someone who made an observation themselves.

"Third hand" is when you hear something from someone who heard it from someone who claimed to have observed an event or item.


So you were on the boat and now choose to condemn the parents as unfit parents?

 

[wdw71fan]

"First hand" means you saw it yourself in person--no research.

"Second hand" is when you get information from someone who made an observation themselves.

"Third hand" is when you hear something from someone who heard it from someone who claimed to have observed an event or item.


So you were on the boat and now choose to condemn the parents as unfit parents?

Guess you'll never know..

 

[Gabe1]

Oh man, this is so sad! What a way to start a family vacation. And I'm sorry to say this, but 4 years old is WAY too young to be left unattended (especially in a pool that has no lifeguard). I really hope he'll be ok

Link here- http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news...ntasy-drowning-child-20130330,0,2927140.story

Hey Joanna, do you have any idea why Disney doesn't post lifeguards in their cruise family pool? I realize it says it is posted but I am curious more as to why the heck not, just for circumstances like this.

"First hand" means you saw it yourself in person--no research.

"Second hand" is when you get information from someone who made an observation themselves.

"Third hand" is when you hear something from someone who heard it from someone who claimed to have observed an event or item.


So you were on the boat and now choose to condemn the parents as unfit parents?

Considering the ship is out to sea, it is likely everything is second hand or worse, information, only the family got off the ship. The story has been updated many times now and as usual real facts have come to light. I'm surprised this story grew so many legs, at least the one at Pop had guests that remained at the resort to recount, however this story, first hand, true and real eye witnesses are out to sea.

Hoping and praying the child is OK.

 

[sweetpee_1993]

Hey Joanna, do you have any idea why Disney doesn't post lifeguards in their cruise family pool? I realize it says it is posted but I am curious more as to why the heck not, just for circumstances like this.

I'm no expert but its my understanding that its pretty standard across the cruise industry to not provide lifeguards.

 

[DISNEY FANTASY]

I would agree that the child's health is the most important factor.. And I choose to not share any details beyond what is out there because it could compromise certain individuals..

The parents threw caution to the wind here, it happens a lot.. thankfully it doesn't seem to be a fatal mistake here..

They'll surely never forgive themselves for what happened, and that's enough for me..

So can you answer the question everyone is asking you, were you there? If so I assume you went over to help?

 

[DISNEY FANTASY]

like I said... First hand knowledge. not getting my info from wesh.com, that's for sure.

Please explain.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I would agree that the child's health is the most important factor.. And I choose to not share any details beyond what is out there because it could compromise certain individuals..

The parents threw caution to the wind here, it happens a lot.. thankfully it doesn't seem to be a fatal mistake here.

They'll surely never forgive themselves for what happened, and that's enough for me..

I am sure they will be so relieved you have forgiven them, after enough punishment as judged by you.

AKK

 

[unkadug]

Guess you'll never know..

I guess your credibility just fell to ZERO !!

 

[Nemo14]

from....?

 

[ChuckElias]

Pools scare the beans out of me now that I have a child.

On our first Disney cruise in '01, my daughter was 6. We took a Christmas cruise sailing from Port Canaveral, obviously. The kids had never been on a cruise and of course wanted to jump in the pool as soon as humanly possible. It was Florida, but it was December, and it was still cold.

But there I was, in my bathing suit, on the side of the Mickey pool, freezing. I was an idiot, because I didn't need to be in a bathing suit just to hover next to the shallow pool. But it was my first time on the Wonder, my tiny little girl was in a public pool, and there was no way I was leaving to get warm.

My brother-in-law has some "hysterical" video of me sitting there, freezing to death.

 

[DISNEY FANTASY]

The first and most important thing is to think and pray for the family, we know the boy of 4 is reported to be in a stable condition. Now whilst people posted on a forum what they think they saw, or what they heard, the information posted has clearly not been accurate, one example is posts said the boy was 10, that's quite an age difference, one said sailaway party moved inside another said it didn't. So the next point is, unless you were there and saw it, then we really do not know the finer details. I think we should keep positive thoughts for the family of this situation that could have been a fatal tragedy at Easter if the quick and well trained support hadn't kicked in and looked after this boy. Next what concerns me is that people think they now, 'own' this situation, yes newspapers are reporting it, but in a very careful and professional way, but some Internet forums are allowing things to get out of hand and one DCL blog is reporting this on a site whereas they are not trained journalists. (Even having adverts for the blog), If we put ourselves in the parents shoes, they already have suffered so so much thinking the worst will happen, not just on ship, but at the hospital, awaiting that doctor coming around with potential bad news. Then during that waiting time hey see everyone writing about them on Blogs etc, it makes the tragic situation doubly worse. We do not know the full facts, if someone thinks they know everything, then source it, but please think about the family, they are human, and leave speculation and 'reporting' to the professional journalist, this shouldn't be on blogs etc where they discuss Palo, or Remy, people should have some respect.

 

[wdw71fan]

I guess your credibility just fell to ZERO !!

I don't care who believes what I post , and who doesn't...

So, whatever 'credibility' rating you perceive me to care about..... Doesn't exist.

Stop pretending to be righteous here, it's only my opinions in the "Save the Adventurers Club" thread that you care about.

 

[Gabe1]

I'm no expert but its my understanding that its pretty standard across the cruise industry to not provide lifeguards.

I wondered why last night and was thinking more in terms of, 'why would Disney do that? Not have lifeguards, they know better in crowded pools and waterparks.'

And then this morning, after needed rest, I called myself stupid 'cause I was a Maritime surveyor/adjuster for cargo for many, many years in my previous life. lol Maritime law is very different from US common law and it protects the vessel from human liability and further guests sign away further loop holes in their contract with the cruise lines. Fraud or breach of services is easier, not easy to fight legally than harm or death and in reality there is only two cases in resent times that had traction in US courts. Ultimately legal decisions are made from Maritime law from the 19th century and have not really been altered in the last 100 years. This is why most employees that are general staff are not US citizens. There are not any restrictions governing labor laws because there are not any labor laws or anywhere really to pursue work related claims. It amazes me in modern times Maritime Law is still what it was however you would have to get every country that signed basically to come to terms with how rewrite the law.

Basically why would cruise lines have lifeguards if there was zip chance of any liability at sea? While I wondered last night why Disney, who is safety orientated wouldn't have lifeguards? But when it comes to their pools on ships they are not any better or worse than any other cruise line, if someone dies they are not responsible. If the ships Doctor is grossly incompetent that is OK too. Same if they are over served, drunk, hurt or killed. Not responsible. For the most part if you fall overboard they are not responsible. And guests agree in their contracts to this. You basically need a ship to hit a known rock, another ship have liability. Good will settlements for worldwide press are more often nominal offerings so the public still will cruise with their lines.
Think the Disney Ship that hit very bad storms coming back to port last year while others stayed out to sea another day. It was weather, no liability, it was far more important to get the ship to port on time and keep the ship on schedule. And we wonder why Disney has so many ships and keeps building? No labor laws, no liability or genuine risks, so little need for legal interaction, low overhead, high profit. Who could blame them for building their own ships.

Now I wonder what 'could' happen with this young boy. The ship was still in a US Port in US waters and passage booked through a US Corporation. Wonder if this will change the liability at all.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

The first and most important thing is to think and pray for the family, we know the boy of 4 is reported to be in a stable condition. Now whilst people posted on a forum what they think they saw, or what they heard, the information posted has clearly not been accurate, one example is posts said the boy was 10, that's quite an age difference, one said sailaway party moved inside another said it didn't. So the next point is, unless you were there and saw it, then we really do not know the finer details. I think we should keep positive thoughts for the family of this situation that could have been a fatal tragedy at Easter if the quick and well trained support hadn't kicked in and looked after this boy. Next what concerns me is that people think they now, 'own' this situation, yes newspapers are reporting it, but in a very careful and professional way, but some Internet forums are allowing things to get out of hand and one DCL blog is reporting this on a site whereas they are not trained journalists. (Even having adverts for the blog), If we put ourselves in the parents shoes, they already have suffered so so much thinking the worst will happen, not just on ship, but at the hospital, awaiting that doctor coming around with potential bad news. Then during that waiting time hey see everyone writing about them on Blogs etc, it makes the tragic situation doubly worse. We do not know the full facts, if someone thinks they know everything, then source it, but please think about the family, they are human, and leave speculation and 'reporting' to the professional journalist, this shouldn't be on blogs etc where they discuss Palo, or Remy, people should have some respect.

Well said DF

AKK

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I wondered why last night and was thinking more in terms of, 'why would Disney do that? Not have lifeguards, they know better in crowded pools and waterparks.'

And then this morning, after needed rest, I called myself stupid 'cause I was a Maritime surveyor/adjuster for cargo for many, many years in my previous life. lol Maritime law is very different from US common law and it protects the vessel from human liability and further guests sign away further loop holes in their contract with the cruise lines. Fraud or breach of services is easier, not easy to fight legally than harm or death and in reality there is only two cases in resent times that had traction in US courts. Ultimately legal decisions are made from Maritime law from the 19th century and have not really been altered in the last 100 years. This is why most employees that are general staff are not US citizens. There are not any restrictions governing labor laws because there are not any labor laws or anywhere really to pursue work related claims. It amazes me in modern times Maritime Law is still what it was however you would have to get every country that signed basically to come to terms with how rewrite the law.

Basically why would cruise lines have lifeguards if there was zip chance of any liability at sea? While I wondered last night why Disney, who is safety orientated wouldn't have lifeguards? But when it comes to their pools on ships they are not any better or worse than any other cruise line, if someone dies they are not responsible. If the ships Doctor is grossly incompetent that is OK too. Same if they are over served, drunk, hurt or killed. Not responsible. For the most part if you fall overboard they are not responsible. And guests agree in their contracts to this. You basically need a ship to hit a known rock, another ship have liability. Good will settlements for worldwide press are more often nominal offerings so the public still will cruise with their lines.
Think the Disney Ship that hit very bad storms coming back to port last year while others stayed out to sea another day. It was weather, no liability, it was far more important to get the ship to port on time and keep the ship on schedule. And we wonder why Disney has so many ships and keeps building? No labor laws, no liability or genuine risks, so little need for legal interaction, low overhead, high profit. Who could blame them for building their own ships.

Now I wonder what 'could' happen with this young boy. The ship was still in a US Port in US waters and passage booked through a US Corporation. Wonder if this will change the liability at all.

The Maritime liability issues are always in question.

Whether any line would have lifeguards or should have lifeguards is highly debatable. However the one important reason DCL would/should/could have them would be reputation. More then any other line or corporation, the success of Disney rests on the public perception. They lose that, the peoples trust in the Disney name and they will soon wither on the vine.


AKK

 

[Gabe1]

The Maritime liability issues are always in question.

Whether any line would have lifeguards or should have lifeguards is highly debatable. However the one important reason DCL would/should/could have them would be reputation. More then any other line or corporation, the success of Disney rests on the public perception. They lose that, the peoples trust in the Disney name and they will soon wither on the vine.


AKK

I agree. Last night when I first read this thread I was so dang surprised Disney CL didn't have lifeguards just because they are Disney. Their main resort pools have lifeguards during crowded peak hours even if their parents are there inches from their children. Other than cutting costs I can't imagine why DCL would not guard the children's pool just because Disney has higher standards than a Motel 8 type resort and I did believe Disney thought about guest safety at sea as much as in their resorts. Disappointing.

What I did learn today was NCL is the only major CL that flies and American Flag.

 

[Tonka's Skipper]

I agree. Last night when I first read this thread I was so dang surprised Disney CL didn't have lifeguards just because they are Disney. Their main resort pools have lifeguards during crowded peak hours even if their parents are there inches from their children. Other than cutting costs I can't imagine why DCL would not guard the children's pool just because Disney has higher standards than a Motel 8 type resort and I did believe Disney thought about guest safety at sea as much as in their resorts. Disappointing.

What I did learn today was NCL is the only major CL that flies and American Flag.

The only line that does have lifeguards is NCL,I think, someone correct me if I am wrong. There is a question of whether they would be all that effective on the small ship pools, even counter productive. However I promised myself I would not get into that debate as we cannot settle it here, people are pretty polarized.

One ship the *Pride of America* in Hawaii. I understand the cruise is great and the service problems have been ironed out. I wish they had more, not to mention I wish they had followed though with the S/S Untied States.

AKK

 

[unkadug]

I don't care who believes what I post , and who doesn't...

So, whatever 'credibility' rating you perceive me to care about..... Doesn't exist.

Stop pretending to be righteous here, it's only my opinions in the "Save the Adventurers Club" thread that you care about.

I think the only pretending being done is on your part.

 

[Gabe1]

The only line that does have lifeguards is NCL,I think, someone correct me if I am wrong. There is a question of whether they would be all that effective on the small ship pools, even counter productive. However I promised myself I would not get into that debate as we cannot settle it here, people are pretty polarized.

One ship the *Pride of America* in Hawaii. I understand the cruise is great and the service problems have been ironed out. I wish they had more, not to mention I wish they had followed though with the S/S Untied States.

AKK

(Boy, 2 marine surveyors. Betting our life's have tripped over each others at some point, there are not that many of us. Gave it up to be home with my kids, the travel was sucidoodles.)

Both of my kids are certified Ellis instructors to train and certify lifeguards annually. My DS continues to certify on the side while my DD manages a waterpark over the summer along with 3 indoor pools over breaks. The kiddie pool is guarded, the zero depth pool that goes from zero to 4 ft is guarded and the lap pool is guarded. In the WaterPark every slide, slide pool, fun house and lazy river is guarded. So many guards are posted on the the lazy river. They are fully certified in CPR, First Aid and AED''s.

At Florida for Disney employees and their families there is a water rec area near the College Program housing called Mickey's Retreat. http://www.wdwforgrownups.com/forum/cast-member-rescued-mickeys-retreat It's pool is guarded with several lifeguards and overlapping shifts to keep the employees safe. I am just surprised the DCL children's pool is treated so differently than the main pools in the US. Disney does pump a great deal of money into certifying their lifeguards and paying their wages. Head scratcher as to why they feel so differently on their ships. I wonder if Disney guards it's pools in Paris.