So is the Hyperion Wharf project dead?

[TP2000]

When does reassessing mean canceling?

Hyperion Wharf is being reworked (improved), yes - cancelled, no. This is what "we identified opportunities to further refine our master plan and are pausing to evaluate them" is alluding to. It is going to be better than originally planned, which is great news.

This type of news, along with the mention by Al Lutz in his Miceage column this morning, is encouraging.

But Disney appears to have totally backed away from any mention of Hyperion Wharf. The blog post today didn't use the words Hyperion Wharf once, which is odd since it's a big brand name they launched with great fanfare last year. Now they don't even mention those words in an official blog update on Downtown Disney? That's odd. http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/07/downtown-disney-update/

Whatever they've got up their sleeves for DTD; World of Color II, mega-theme restaurants, trolley systems, parking garages, etc., it appears they have abandoned calling the middle portion of it Hyperion Wharf.

 

[jt04]

This type of news, along with the mention by Al Lutz in his Miceage column this morning, is encouraging.

But Disney appears to have totally backed away from any mention of Hyperion Wharf. The blog post today didn't use the words Hyperion Wharf once, which is odd since it's a big brand name they launched with great fanfare last year. Now they don't even mention those words in an official blog update on Downtown Disney? That's odd. http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/07/downtown-disney-update/

Whatever they've got up their sleeves for DTD; World of Color II, mega-theme restaurants, trolley systems, parking garages, etc., it appears they have abandoned calling the middle portion of it Hyperion Wharf.

It could be they just want to get away from dividing DTD into "lands" as I am sure this confuses more than a few guests that only visit occasionally.

I am glad Steve stepped in to verify many points I have been making for years. More than a little frustrating being the lone voice for so long. And only needing to post once on this subject will mean I can actually eat dinner tonight. :lol:

 

[wm49rs]

It could be they just want to get away from dividing DTD into "lands" as I am sure this confuses more than a few guests that only visit occasionally.

Lands such as, let's say, Hyperion Warf?

 

[disneyny]

I think seeing nothing happen for a long time and then having the first thing announced be "Apricot Lane" made everyone wonder about the direction they were headed. Todays announcement about the bowling alley on the westside was so much better and I think makes a big difference in making people feel optimistic. I am glad Steve is enthusiastic about the plans.

 

[djkidkaz]

This type of news, along with the mention by Al Lutz in his Miceage column this morning, is encouraging.

But Disney appears to have totally backed away from any mention of Hyperion Wharf. The blog post today didn't use the words Hyperion Wharf once, which is odd since it's a big brand name they launched with great fanfare last year. Now they don't even mention those words in an official blog update on Downtown Disney? That's odd. http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/07/downtown-disney-update/

Whatever they've got up their sleeves for DTD; World of Color II, mega-theme restaurants, trolley systems, parking garages, etc., it appears they have abandoned calling the middle portion of it Hyperion Wharf.

Woah Woah.....Trolley System?? Nobody said anything to me about a trolley! Things might just be looking up after all! A trolley makes everything better.

And I know it was said that Disney wouldn't do a World of Color show in DTD because they couldn't charge for admission to it, but maybe they can. Look how many nights people book dessert parties around World Showcase and Wishes Dessert Parties at MK. Maybe Disney will do something along these lines where they setup areas for people who want the best seats in the house and then charge extra for them. The idea of a WOC type show around DTD makes great sense. It would also definitely increase popularity of one of their least popular resorts, Saratoga Springs.

 

[flavious27]

This type of news, along with the mention by Al Lutz in his Miceage column this morning, is encouraging.

But Disney appears to have totally backed away from any mention of Hyperion Wharf. The blog post today didn't use the words Hyperion Wharf once, which is odd since it's a big brand name they launched with great fanfare last year. Now they don't even mention those words in an official blog update on Downtown Disney? That's odd. http://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2011/07/downtown-disney-update/

Whatever they've got up their sleeves for DTD; World of Color II, mega-theme restaurants, trolley systems, parking garages, etc., it appears they have abandoned calling the middle portion of it Hyperion Wharf.

Yeah I saw that too in this blog post, he mentioned pleasure island but not HW. The concept for HW would work better as part of a new resort, it will be better than the usual pool area / main building.

 

[MKCP 1985]

I would not call DTD a ghost town by any stretch but there is a "ghost block" feel to PI. The only thing I can compare it to is the feeling you get in one of those small out croppings in a mall where 5 of the 6 stores are empty. There are people there because they have to walk through the area to get to the open section of the mall but something just feels wrong about it. This is PI right now. There is life at the beginning and end of PI but in between is a dead zone.

Richard, I could honestly say the same thing about Pleasure Island clubs when they were open. I did a trip report back in 2004 and included the Sunday night of Easter (an incredibly busy time of the year at Disney) and how dead things were at Pleasure Island (and how disappointing that was.)

 

[puntagordabob]

trolleys? World of Color (like) show at DTD? Sounds like this could be a good turn of events if it comes to reality!

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Last we heard, something along the lines of World of Color would be very difficult to do. The show needs a closed lagoon in order to work and DTD obviously doesn't have that. They would have to do some sectioning to make part of the lake artificial, which just doesn't seem like something they would do.

 

[Master Yoda]

Richard, I could honestly say the same thing about Pleasure Island clubs when they were open. I did a trip report back in 2004 and included the Sunday night of Easter (an incredibly busy time of the year at Disney) and how dead things were at Pleasure Island (and how disappointing that was.)

That is quite possible but I can honestly say that I would not have noticed that from inside the AC.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Last we heard, something along the lines of World of Color would be very difficult to do. The show needs a closed lagoon in order to work and DTD obviously doesn't have that. They would have to do some sectioning to make part of the lake artificial, which just doesn't seem like something they would do.

Elsewhere, Lee made it sound like he had seen a plan that included an artificial lagoon being created in the parking lot near Planet Hollywood. That was my impression, but he will have to clarify.

 

[jt04]

Lands such as, let's say, Hyperion Warf?

yes. They may be planning on not using the monikers of marketplace, westend and HW but that would not mean they would not still build the HW concepts plus.

trolleys? World of Color (like) show at DTD? Sounds like this could be a good turn of events if it comes to reality!

I doubt seriously you will see a trolley. They already have a very effective transport system. TP2000 is obsessed with rails. :lol:

 

[flavious27]

Elsewhere, Lee made it sound like he had seen a plan that included an artificial lagoon being created in the parking lot near Planet Hollywood. That was my impression, but he will have to clarify.

They could close off the lagoon around planet hollywood, but what would be the point in that location? A WOC would be better placed in Village Lake.

 

[Mouse Detective]

This is the part I keep reading and just don't understand where this is coming from. I have a lot of contacts through the site who are regulars in these areas, and they all tell me that the former PI is not dead.

PI is deserted after about 10pm. That's when the clubs were just opening up. Lot of money lost having everything closed.

The clubs were not crowded every night and they probably should have been closed early in the week, but they were crowded on weekends. Yeah, Easter Eve, Christmas Eve, Thanksgiving Eve, probably not so crowded.

 

[Skyway]

I've seen the rumors here and elsewhere about a WoC show for DtD.

I know this is fairly "Blue Sky", but does anyone know if they're proposing a full-blown 30 minute show, or just shorter episodes to enjoy while walking by?

Also, can anyone confirm what I already suspect: this WoC proposal would be primarily aimed at recruiting vendors/tenants?

Unless they're planning on an enclosed, separate fee stadium (which doesn't seem feasible), it seems unusual that Disney would invest big $$$ on a free show at DtD that guests at DCA are willing to pay for. My guess is that Disney may need to make such an investment in order to attract vendors willing to set-up shop at DtD and pay the excessive leases.

 

[Lee]

Elsewhere, Lee made it sound like he had seen a plan that included an artificial lagoon being created in the parking lot near Planet Hollywood. That was my impression, but he will have to clarify.

You are correct on all counts.
Seen a plan. Not a clone of WoC, but a show using that tech. New lagoon, smallish compared to the lake, in a new "Central Park" area in what is now the lot near Planet Hollywood.

Just a plan...not greenlit or close to it so far as I know.

 

[TP2000]

Woah Woah.....Trolley System?? Nobody said anything to me about a trolley! Things might just be looking up after all! A trolley makes everything better.

Sorry, that was just a free-association comment I made based on a lengthy discussion some of us here had this past winter regarding Hyperion Wharf trolleys.

I live in SoCal, where several big, fancy outdoor malls have these custom built trolley systems that circulate shoppers around the retail/dining/housing that are intertwined in the malls. The vehicles are fully wheelchair accesible and gorgeously crafted and piloted by conductors in fancy uniforms more polished and upscale than anything on Main Street USA. :lookaroun

There's one of these trolley malls just down the street from WDI headquarters in Glendale, so I know the Imagineers are very familiar with the concept of trolleys zipping around outdoor shopping malls.

Glendale, California Mall Trolley - The Americana Shopping Center

Los Angeles, California Mall Trolley - The Grove Shopping Center

Wouldn't those be neat zipping around Downtown Disney, connecting one side of the sprawling facility to the other? And when I say zip, they really can zip, as seen in this 20 second YouTube clip of a trolley at The Grove moving down the mall at Christmastime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPN2qvy8NtE

 

[jt04]

Sorry, that was just a free-association comment I made based on a lengthy discussion some of us here had this past winter regarding Hyperion Wharf trolleys.

I live in SoCal, where several big, fancy outdoor malls have these custom built trolley systems that circulate shoppers around the retail/dining/housing that are intertwined in the malls. The vehicles are fully wheelchair accesible and gorgeously crafted and piloted by conductors in fancy uniforms more polished and upscale than anything on Main Street USA. :lookaroun

There's one of these trolley malls just down the street from WDI headquarters in Glendale, so I know the Imagineers are very familiar with the concept of trolleys zipping around outdoor shopping malls.

Glendale, California Mall Trolley - The Americana Shopping Center

Los Angeles, California Mall Trolley - The Grove Shopping Center

Wouldn't those be neat zipping around Downtown Disney, connecting one side of the sprawling facility to the other? And when I say zip, they really can zip, as seen in this 20 second YouTube clip of a trolley at The Grove moving down the mall at Christmastime. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPN2qvy8NtE

Except it is not a "sprawling facility". The distance from the entrance of Epcot to the American pavilion is far greater and yet people can walk that far and back. Plus DTD already has a very effective transport system. A trolley system would only create traffic flow and safety issues. But the main problem would likely be that it ends up being nothing but an unending drain of capital expenses with little ROI (see California HSR:lol. Unless Disney builds a series of hotels that could then be joined by a monorail or trolley system around the entire lake, then the idea makes little sense. :wave:

 

[zulemara]

I trust my sources on the clubs not being profitable 100%, so we'll just have to disagree on this one.

I don't see how 8-trax wasn't profitable. It had what? 6 CMs, a DJ, and a light tech to the thousands of dollars in alcohol sales.

That aside, any profitability problems in other clubs were the direct result of mismanagement. They cut out a lot of reasons to come, the special events, the performances, the fireworks, they cut everything down until there was nothing left. In my opinion, they WANTED it closed and hacked away at the place until they could justify doing so based on numbers(if indeed your sources are correct)

So now they can fix it. 2 ultra lounges combined with other nightlife elements(bowling is a good start) and comedy and they will be set.

 

[jt04]

I don't see how 8-trax wasn't profitable. It had what? 6 CMs, a DJ, and a light tech to the thousands of dollars in alcohol sales.

That aside, any profitability problems in other clubs were the direct result of mismanagement. They cut out a lot of reasons to come, the special events, the performances, the fireworks, they cut everything down until there was nothing left. In my opinion, they WANTED it closed and hacked away at the place until they could justify doing so based on numbers(if indeed your sources are correct)

So now they can fix it. 2 ultra lounges combined with other nightlife elements(bowling is a good start) and comedy and they will be set.

IMO all the "special events" are what kept it from being profitable. In addition to security and other added costs. You have to view PI as a whole and not as individual venues when it comes to profit.

Agreed that the CW and AC would be good to keep though.