So is the Hyperion Wharf project dead?

[Master Yoda]

This is the part I keep reading and just don't understand where this is coming from. I have a lot of contacts through the site who are regulars in these areas, and they all tell me that the former PI is not dead. The walk-through traffic is there just as before, Raglan Road is packed, Cookes is packed, Curl is always full, as is Paradiso. No open businesses in that area are sitting empty, and it is not a ghost town. The closed business are obviously a problem (but are being addressed), so in terms of what is open, they appear to be busy. This concept of a ghost town is just not reality - the parking lots are just as busy as when PI was a club area. I'm gonna have to start getting PI crowd level photo updates I think to put this to bed once and for all LOL.

I would not call DTD a ghost town by any stretch but there is a "ghost block" feel to PI. The only thing I can compare it to is the feeling you get in one of those small out croppings in a mall where 5 of the 6 stores are empty. There are people there because they have to walk through the area to get to the open section of the mall but something just feels wrong about it. This is PI right now. There is life at the beginning and end of PI but in between is a dead zone.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hyperion Wharf was announced on Nov 18 2010. The improvements of those plans have taken place since sometime in early 2011 I believe. So we are currently just over half a year for talk on Hyperion.

The name, which was not at all used by Disney in today's blog post, is irrelevant. It is all a series of projects with the same goal to repurpose the island. Disney has basically admitted that once again they were premature to announce, which further makes the Hyperion Wharf announcement look like a [failed] attempt at getting the word out that Disney is looking for third party operators.

 

[wdwmagic]

I would not call DTD a ghost town by any stretch but there is a "ghost block" feel to PI. The only thing I can compare it to is the feeling you get in one of those small out croppings in a mall where 5 of the 6 stores are empty. There are people there because they have to walk through the area to get to the open section of the mall but something just feels wrong about it. This is PI right now. There is life at the beginning and end of PI but in between is a dead zone.

OK I understand that there are vacant buildings which is certainly not a good thing and I agree with what you are saying on that. I was referring to the actual open businesses and the foot traffic being far from dead.

 

[wdwmagic]

The name, which was not at all used by Disney in today's blog post, is irrelevant. It is all a series of projects with the same goal to repurpose the island. Disney has basically admitted that once again they were premature to announce, which further makes the Hyperion Wharf announcement look like a [failed] attempt at getting the word out that Disney is looking for third party operators.

You'll find out soon enough that it hasn't failed - quite the opposite.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

This is the part I keep reading and just don't understand where this is coming from. I have a lot of contacts through the site who are regulars in these areas, and they all tell me that the former PI is not dead. The walk-through traffic is there just as before, Raglan Road is packed, Cookes is packed, Curl is always full, as is Paradiso. No open businesses in that area are sitting empty, and it is not a ghost town. The closed business are obviously a problem (but are being addressed), so in terms of what is open, they appear to be busy. This concept of a ghost town is just not reality - the parking lots are just as busy as when PI was a club area. I'm gonna have to start getting PI crowd level photo updates I think to put this to bed once and for all LOL.

OK...just saying what I have seen in terms of open area. The restaurants themselves are pretty crowded, but from what I have seen the walkways at the Marketplace and West Side are much busier than the ones at PI. It could come and go, I don't pretend to be there every day to check. However, in the times I have been there since the closing of the clubs, the outdoor areas don't seem to have the volume of the other parts of DTD. This is something I assume they would want to be great as this is how most of the stores that will build there will get their business.

 

[njDizFan]

You'll find out soon enough that it hasn't failed - quite the opposite.

As soon as the D23 Expo?

 

[Master Yoda]

OK I understand that there are vacant buildings which is certainly not a good thing and I agree with what you are saying on that. I was referring to the actual open businesses and the foot traffic being far from dead.

The stores are full of people, there is no questioning that fact. Whether people are buying is anyone's guess. I'll just be glad when CW, AC, BET and the seed & mulch have something in them other than stale air, and the whole PI debacle is behind us.

 

[wdwmagic]

As soon as the D23 Expo?

A lot of the issues with DTD stem from the fact that third parties are having to negotiate with a very tough mouse. When you then factor in that there are lots of these third parties, timing tends to go out the window. I'm not sure on the timeline, but sooner rather than later.

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

I would not call DTD a ghost town by any stretch but there is a "ghost block" feel to PI. The only thing I can compare it to is the feeling you get in one of those small out croppings in a mall where 5 of the 6 stores are empty. There are people there because they have to walk through the area to get to the open section of the mall but something just feels wrong about it. This is PI right now. There is life at the beginning and end of PI but in between is a dead zone.

agreed, once you turn the corner past Fuego it just looks like a abandoned facility having Curl and Paridiso open does little to disguise all the other darkend and boarded up buildings. Are there ppl milling through the area (yes) but are they lingering there (no)

 

[JustInTime]

Steve, thanks for jumping in. It's good to have your reassurance. I personally loved the idea of Hyperion. Glad to hear that it's improving.

 

[RSoxNo1]

When does reassessing mean canceling?

Hyperion Wharf is being reworked (improved), yes - cancelled, no. This is what "we identified opportunities to further refine our master plan and are pausing to evaluate them" is alluding to. It is going to be better than originally planned, which is great news.

I few the changes to Hyperion Wharf the same way I viewed the changes to Fantasyland. Fantasyland wasn't cancelled it wasn re-worked.

 

[71jason]

It has been said many times before, but the truth is the Adventurers Club was not self sustaining. At best, it broke even, and typically made a loss. The removal of the PI turnstyle gave it a few extra years as a last ditch attempt, but it still didn't turn a profit.

Sorry, but completely wrong. Even Kevin Lansberry admitted to the Sentinel in the final days that the Club was modestly profitable. I've compared the numbers leaked to Screamscape for actor costs vs. what the venue pulled in strictly in bar sales, and it should have been in the black on that alone--to say nothing of the $25 cover charge.

Removal of the turnstiles had little to nothing to do with keeping the AdvClub alive, as evidenced by the fact WDW never sold a single club ticket for it (despite offering them for the music clubs). Sure the AdvClub had a following of locals, but it had a larger following nationwide, and still managed to shock and surprise random guests who wandered in.

This is the part I keep reading and just don't understand where this is coming from. I have a lot of contacts through the site who are regulars in these areas, and they all tell me that the former PI is not dead. The walk-through traffic is there just as before, Raglan Road is packed, Cookes is packed, Curl is always full, as is Paradiso. No open businesses in that area are sitting empty, and it is not a ghost town. The closed business are obviously a problem (but are being addressed), so in terms of what is open, they appear to be busy. This concept of a ghost town is just not reality - the parking lots are just as busy as when PI was a club area. .

There are a ton of people walking by--the walkway is usually crowded. And yeah, the too small lots by the Marketplace a bear to navigate often (tho there's still acres of empty parking on the West Side). But Raglan and Paradiso are hardly "packed." Even in Summer, empty tables are a common sight. Guest are wandering through because it's the last free option at Disney (or, in a few cases, because they still expect to find clubs). But surprisingly few of those guests are spending any money.

 

[WDWFigment]

Steve - your excitement on this certainly lends credence to what I read by Al Lutz earlier today that the Hyperion Wharf concept may have an addition involving the technology from World of Color, and could be announced at D23.

Now that certainly would be awesome. Given how crowded DtD already is, though, I'd think some sort of admission would have to be charged. Hopefully the logistics of this are worked out if it is, in fact, true!

 

[lazyboy97o]

You'll find out soon enough that it hasn't failed - quite the opposite.

Which just goes back to my original question. Something "new and better" has been "coming soon" since the announcement of the clubs being closed.

 

[JustInTime]

Steve - your excitement on this certainly lends credence to what I read by Al Lutz earlier today that the Hyperion Wharf concept may have an addition involving the technology from World of Color, and could be announced at D23.

Now that certainly would be awesome. Given how crowded DtD already is, though, I'd think some sort of admission would have to be charged. Hopefully the logistics of this are worked out if it is, in fact, true!

You know, I have read that in passing a TON this week. And I think it would be welcome. it would give me reason to visit DTD on each trip. Now we typically skip it because DTD = less time the the parks.

 

[George]

This has been said for how many years now?

I dunno, but I have to admit that Steve's adamancy makes me happy.

 

[tirian]

Steve is right. PI hadn't been profitable for years before they finally closed it. The initial plans were to close everything except the Adv Club for its originality, but even it was eventually included in the wrecking ball's path.

 

[wdwmagic]

Sorry, but completely wrong. Even Kevin Lansberry admitted to the Sentinel in the final days that the Club was modestly profitable. I've compared the numbers leaked to Screamscape for actor costs vs. what the venue pulled in strictly in bar sales, and it should have been in the black on that alone--to say nothing of the $25 cover charge.

Removal of the turnstiles had little to nothing to do with keeping the AdvClub alive, as evidenced by the fact WDW never sold a single club ticket for it (despite offering them for the music clubs). Sure the AdvClub had a following of locals, but it had a larger following nationwide, and still managed to shock and surprise random guests who wandered in.
.

I trust my sources on the clubs not being profitable 100%, so we'll just have to disagree on this one.

 

[wdwmagic]

Which just goes back to my original question. Something "new and better" has been "coming soon" since the announcement of the clubs being closed.

Well I think initially following the clubs closing there is no doubt that it was not managed as well as it could have been. And those reasons will probably never come to light. Since then though, and in particular since the Hyperion Wharf announcements, there is a real desire by Disney to get this set once and for all, and it goes right to the top.

 

[marni1971]

Since then though, and in particular since the Hyperion Wharf announcements, there is a real desire by Disney to get this set once and for all, and it goes right to the top.

They need to. Up to now this farce makes FLE seem well managed.