Six Flags article: How they want to emulate Disney

[ssidiouss@mac.c]

The last time I went to Six Flags over Georgia, which I think was last year, I remember thinking to myself that I would feel safer wandering the streets of Los Angeles after midnight with an open bag of money and a sign saying "mug me".

BAHHAH!H!H! so true loL!!!! Six Flaggs can forget me until they price out the riff raff.

 

[shaelyn]

This exctited me, since I work at Six Flags New England.

*waves* We're in the same area

I agree with you that you can't judge an entire chain based on one park, but the same is true in the opposite direction; one good park doesn't mean that every Six Flags will be the same.

Every theme park has a huge proportion of young workers, but not every park has the same attitude and training. I've been to the NJ one, the NE one, and the one in San Antonio, TX, and each had a different feeling. i think a lot also has to do with the existing infrastructure of the park in the case of places that were bought out, ie SFNE. Either way, this is an ambitious undertaking on the part of the new BoD.

 

[aeillill]

ok so when did this forum turn to six flags bashing? seriously? the only reason y u dont like six flags is because is not up to par w/ disney. i personally love six flags. i love their roller coasters and think that maybe disney should start building more. six flags probably has the best roller coasters ever. yea the park may not be clean but do you see how many people are in the park every day. they arent as big as disney so they dont have the money and employees to keep up with it all. and great adventure draws some scary ppl cuz to the north we got new york, and to the left we got philadelphia. the park is still a great park and im sure the others are too. just because it isnt up to disney standards doesnt mean its a bad park. some of you sound like people who pester waiters at a resturaunt cuz the steak is medium when u ordered medium rare. im sorry if i seem to be over reacting, but you need to stop picking on other places just because it isnt disney.

Okay, well you shouldn't jump to assumptions that they only reason we're picking on Six Flags is because "it isnt disney". When I go to Six Flags I'm smart enough to realize that i'm not going to have a Disney experience. And why is that? Because it's an entirely different company, and an entirely different atmosphere.

I also realize that the area it's in is going to bring in the riff raff, there's the same exact problem over at Dorney Park. Also as for it being a great park, I'd mark it as an average park, maybe the new changes they're putting in will improve the place, and I really hope it does becaue I would love to have a place close to home to go and enjoy some attractions.

 

[TP2000]

you need to stop picking on other places just because it isnt disney.

Re-read the posts here. We are picking on Six Flags because their new president is on a nationwide media tour granting interviews to every local newspaper in a Six Flags town. This new Six Flags president, Mr. Mark Shapiro, is repeatedly telling the media that he wants to make Six Flags more like Disney parks. Mr. Shapiro has invited this comparison, and he deserves all the criticism he can get for starting the comparison in the first place.

And I still maintain that this Disneyfied family kick that Six Flags thinks it is about to embark on is doomed to failure within three years. There isn't enough money, there isn't enough will power, and there isn't enough passion in the Six Flags corporate and regional offices to even begin to get this off the ground. I hope the Six Flags employees out there don't put too much faith in Mr. Shapiro, because all he has done is steal a few key phrases and pages from a Jay Rasulo presentation given to Disney executives, of which Mr. Shapiro used to be one of, and he thinks he can remake the entire Six Flags chain by just being a cheerleader with a stolen playbook.

It's going to take lots and lots of money and a great deal of passion and patience to even begin this Six Flags transformation. And the Six Flags organization doesn't have any of those things.

Anheuser-Busch Parks, Universal and Cedar Fair are already way ahead of Six Flags in this game. I don't think Mr. Shapiro realizes just how low his new company has sunk compared to the competition, let alone the golden Disney standard that he is trying to compare his chain of amusement parks to.

 

[The Mak]

I see a lot of unfair dumping on Six Flags in this thread. Mainly Great Adventure. GAdv is probably the best park in the chain (it's also the biggest money draw in the chain). Some of the things said of Gadv are simply outright lies. For example: Sir Goofy's claim that 3 coasters on average are closed daily when that simply is not true. Sorry.

There's also a lot of dumping on Shapiro and his Disney aspirations. Shapiro was the head of ESPN programming before he way hired away by Snyder. ESPN was constantly filming shows in its parent companies parks in Orlando, Shapiro knows where the standard sits and he is aiming for it. Where else should he look for customer service and operations standards? Coney Island? The Jersey Shore? Come on people.

 

[Sledge]

Six Flags Over Texas is probably the worst of them I've been to. It's absolutely horrible.

 

[bgraham34]

I have not been to Six Flags in NJ since 94. The crowds were just out of hand. I have no desire to go back there.

 

[Timmay]

What amazes me is how many people don't know the difference between Marvel characters and DC characters.:veryconfu Last time I checked, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern all seemed to be seen best in DC comic books.

Living in Denver, we always get season passes to Six Flags Elitch Gardens. Obviosly not the best park around, but a great thing to have in our city anyway. I don't expect the Disney experience while I am there...why should I.

Why would I want to even compare the two...makes no sense to me. Our Six Flags park is what it is. So they are trying to improve on things and make it a better place. Yes, some of us reasonable types understand they will never come close to Disney (what will?), but some people need to untighten their backsides and realize not all of us can be like you and visit a Disney park 8, 15, 22, 40, 79 or 195 times in our life. Some of us have learned to appreciate what we have...not slam what others don't have.

 

[SewIn2Disney]

I see a lot of unfair dumping on Six Flags in this thread. Mainly Great Adventure. GAdv is probably the best park in the chain (it's also the biggest money draw in the chain). Some of the things said of Gadv are simply outright lies. For example: Sir Goofy's claim that 3 coasters on average are closed daily when that simply is not true. Sorry.

.

And what makes your word higher then the OP who said that the 3 coasters are closed?

I go a few times a summer, and that's only because my friends all get season passes that comes with get a friend in free pass. I was there opening weekend, and amazingly got on Kingda Ka, but about 30 minutes after I got off, it closed for the day. Superman was not working (and that's only 2 or 3 years old), and neither was Batman and Robin. Nitro was on and off all day.
My sister was there about two weeks ago with school. Kingda Ka didn't open until noon, but closed an hour later. She got stuck on superman (hanging face down for over an hour) and then that was closed for the rest of the day.
This is also not to mention all of the minor rides that weren't open such as the skyway, tea cups, etc.
Also, just beyond the main plaza, by the ferris wheel, they took out a ride. (I can't remember the name, its where you stand against a wall and they spin you like crazy) But, they didn't take it out. They took it apart, and there it sat, in a hundred pieces within a wired fenced in area. It had a few random tarps thrown over, but most of it was exposed. Disney would NEVER let that happen! And I saw this on opening weekend! They had all winter to remove this ride, but they left it there to rot.
My point is, dont make false accusations against others. No one's word is "offical" we all just call it as we see it. Disney and Six Flags will never be on the same playing field, they can try, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.

 

[VillainFan]

The Six Flags here in St. Louis is DISGUSTING. Granted, every year, it seems they get something new (this year we got an entirely new park for kids), but they need to focus on spending their money on park upkeep. I almost can't go there after going to Disney.

 

[SirGoofy]

I see a lot of unfair dumping on Six Flags in this thread. Mainly Great Adventure. GAdv is probably the best park in the chain (it's also the biggest money draw in the chain). Some of the things said of Gadv are simply outright lies. For example: Sir Goofy's claim that 3 coasters on average are closed daily when that simply is not true. Sorry.

You're right, I just made up that atleast 3 coasters were closed each time I went there. I went there five times, and each time atleast 3 were closed. Included in them was Kingda Ka, the park's flagship ride. What kind of message is that sending?

Oh, and hypercatmatt04, I think it is fair to judge Six Flags on one park, especially because Great Adventure is supposed to be it's biggest and best park. It has great rides, but it's dirty and many of its main rides are closed more often than not. I don't want to see what some of the parks that are less popular look like.

*Edit* I typed that 5 coasters were closed when I was there instead of three. My bad.

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

And incidentally Kingda Ka is closed until further notice. :zipit:

 

[SirGoofy]

And incidentally Kingda Ka is closed until further notice. :zipit:

What a suprise. :lol:

 

[ssidiouss@mac.c]

What a suprise. :lol:

Fast Pass would help Six Flaggs.. do they even have that yet?

 

[lilphil6487]

i wish i could see what thrawn would have to say about this argument.

 

[wdwishes2005]

I think this article and the comments by the new management team are very revealing.

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2006/05/21/six_flags_embarks_on_a_new_adventure/?page=full


Six Flags embarks on a new adventure

After years of steep financial losses, the amusement park chain is changing its strategy to focus less on thrill rides and more on families to boost its bottom line

By B.J. Roche, Globe Correspondent | May 21, 2006
AGAWAM -- If you're planning a trip to Six Flags New England this summer, be prepared for the subtle and not-so-subtle effects of a corporate regime change.
Babies are in -- there's a new child-care center; cigarettes are out -- smoking is banned. There's no need to adjust the anti-anxiety meds for this year's two new rides; one of them, Splash Water Falls, is downright tame.
And fuggedabout Mister Six, the Junior Soprano lookalike with a bus who appeared in Six Flags commercials. He's stepping aside to make room for the Marvel Comics Justice League: Batman and Robin, the Flash, the Green Lantern, and Wonder Woman.
Six Flags visitors will be shaking more hands than a mayoral candidate with some two dozen characters, including the Looney Tuners, roaming the grounds. Add a daily parade, and Six Flags is not just your teenager's theme park anymore.
''We've been a company that's about hardware," said new chief executive Mark Shapiro, referring to its roller coasters. ''But we need to be more than that. Theme parks take you away from the everyday, and they recreate a sense of wonder."
''You're not checking your PDA. You're not checking your e-mail. You're walking around and you're escaping," he added. ''That's the experience you're going to have at Six Flags."
It's a strategy to turn the company around in this, its 45th anniversary year. Shapiro, the energetic, 36-year-old former ESPN programming whiz, took over Six Flags Inc. in December, after a bruising proxy fight for the company led by Washington Redskins owner Daniel M. Snyder. Other changes include an expanded board of directors, which now includes movie mogul Harvey Weinstein and former vice presidential candidate Jack Kemp.
Shapiro quickly declared an end to the costly roller coaster ''arms race," emphasizing instead what he calls the ''DNA of the parks," entertainment, character interaction, maintenance, and customer service.
''I don't want to lose the teenager," Shapiro said on a recent tour of the Agawam park. ''But I don't think you ever make money on a $20 million roller coaster. We need to concentrate on families. I think we chased them away."
To large shareholders -- including Fidelity Investments and Bill Gates -- the change in leadership was welcome news. Over the past several years, operating losses reached the hundreds of millions, while the stock price plummeted. Six Flags Inc. operates 30 parks, including Six Flags New England. Overall, the chain attracts about 33.7 million visitors annually but faces more than $2 billion in debt.
In the first quarter of this year, overall revenue was down 14 percent to $42.7 million, compared with a year ago, and losses grew 35 percent to $241 million, largely because Easter vacation fell later this year. But one bright spot: Revenue per capita rose 13 percent to $37.13, a shift the company credits to its family focus.
Meanwhile, some parks are being sold off, and a Texas real estate firm is evaluating what to do with 3,500 acres of undeveloped land, estimated to be worth about $300 million. The company intends to cut $40 million off its capital costs, reduce its television advertising and marketing budget, and increase parking fees.
Dennis Speigel, president of International Theme Park Services, an industry consulting company, says previous management spent an ''exorbitant" amount on testosterone-fueled rides, like the Kingda Ka, a $20 million, 460-foot tall roller coaster at Great Adventure New Jersey, to draw teenagers at a time when consumer preferences were changing.
''They kept fostering this longer, higher, faster armaments war, and it didn't pay any dividends," Speigel said. ''People say, give us something besides roller coasters, give us the golden days of Disney, 'The Pirates of the Caribbean,' 'It's a Small World.' That's what's been lacking in the last four years."
Families are good business. They spend about 25 percent more than the $30 per day per person average at the regional parks, Speigel says, because they tend to stay longer, play more games, and eat more than teenagers, who generally visit parks under cheaper season passes.
Shapiro spent 12 years at ESPN, ending up as executive vice president for programming and production. His résumé includes two Peabody Awards and 16 Emmies, and in 2003, he was named a ''rising star" in Entertainment Weekly's list of the 101 Most Powerful People in Show Business.
At Six Flags, Shapiro is in the role of the turnaround guy, but he says his job is essentially the same as it was at ESPN: broadening the brand.
When he arrived at the sports-entertainment channel, the view-ership was predominantly male. By the time Shapiro left, entertainment-oriented sports programming helped bring the male audience on ESPN2 down to nearly 70 percent.
''We didn't lose any men. We just succeeded in getting more parents, more moms, more casual sports fans," he said.
Though it still has the trademark roller coasters and thrill rides, Six Flags New England also retains bits of its former life as Riverside Amusement Park, with its charmingly retro Main Street, which features games of chance housed in '50s-style storefronts like Fast Eddie's Diner.
The park, which became part of Six Flags in 2000, is among the largest seasonal employers in Western Massachusetts, with 100 full-time and 2,000 summer employees.
The company doesn't release individual park attendance figures, but Shapiro complained that the state could do more to help.
''We seriously lack signage on the highways," he said. ''If you haven't grown up here, you don't know where Six Flags is. We're getting obstacles from the state, and that's not the case in Atlanta, that's not the case in New Jersey. We can make a greater impact, but we need their help in promoting this park."
Paul Sacco, executive director of the Massachusetts Office of Travel and Tourism, says the state features Six Flags in all of its promotional materials, including the state getaway guides and websites. ''We do a lot with them," he said.
Shapiro's family focus naturally invites comparisons to Disney. He doesn't mind.
''I love Disney," he said. ''But at the same time, I know the hardship on the American consumer. The American family goes to Disney an average of 1.2 times in their lives. You've got to buy an airline ticket, car rental, hotel, expensive food when you get there, expensive merchandise.
''But most importantly, you've got to take time off work," he added. ''If instead, you can offer a similar experience for just a car ride away, more convenient, more affordable, that's what Six Flags is going to be."
Disney has another competitive advantage: warm weather. Six Flags New England, which is open weekends until Memorial Day, is among the last parks to open each year. In Queensbury, N.Y., near Lake George, Six Flags Great Escape has become a year-round destination with the addition of an indoor water park and hotel.
There are no such plans yet for Six Flags New England, Shapiro said: ''We want to fix what we have."

:lol: ... Like they can pull it off.....

 

[Expo_Seeker40]

Six Flags does, it;s called the Q-bot costs dumb money for it, and of all the times I;ve been to SFNE (5 exactly), never have I seen Q-botters getting the treatment like fastpassers do at disney. I have found standbiers especially for superman at SFNE are constantly going through into the rollercoaster vehicle while the q-botters just stay there holding their q-bot. :lookaroun

 

[TP2000]

Some of us have learned to appreciate what we have...not slam what others don't have.

Very true. But I get to slam Six Flags because I have both right in my back yard; Disneyland 15 minutes away, and Six Flags Magic Mountain 60 minutes away. And in between those two there is Knott's Berry Farm (Cedar Fair owned) and Universal Studios. An hour south of me is Legoland and the original Sea World in San Diego. Except for Paramount Parks, SoCal has every major theme park competitor well represented here.

And believe me, in this marketplace, Six Flags Magic Mountain ranks at the very, very bottom of the list in regards to cleanliness, operations, customer service, maintenance, etc.

They didn't get there overnight, as Magic Mountain used to be a rather pleasant place to visit in the 1970's and 80's. They used to have a nice collection of thrill and family rides, some neat shows, and even themed areas. It was no Disneyland, but they kept the place clean and friendly. But the last 15 years they have done nothing but slip and slide their way down the ladder to the point where all the non-thrill rides have been shut down, the themed stuff was left to rot or was closed, and all that's left is 16 mega-coasters covered in rust and peeling paint with graffiti filled queues. And the entire park is staffed by punky, sullen kids wearing giant pants barely staying on their hips and rumpled polo shirts. Every other theme park in SoCal does a noticeably better job at theme, service, upkeep, courtesy, and showmanship, with Disneyland and DCA obviously setting the gold standard. Magic Mountain is infamous in SoCal as the theme park shown on the TV news once or twice a year with riot police sweeping the park clear of people after a gang fight or small riot breaks out. It happens every year there, honestly, and the news flies a helicopter overhead and gets all the gory details in living color.

I think Six Flags Magic Mountain is one of the few Six Flags parks to stay open 12 months a year. Maybe they have something in Texas that can stay open year round too? But I believe the vast majority of Six Flags parks close in late October and reopen for Easter. Magic Mountain also has the most coasters of any Six Flags (16 at last count, with Tatsu just opened), and I believe they still rank as the most coasters in America after beating out Cedar Point by one. So, Six Flags Magic Mountain is probably the flagship property in the minds of the corporate office.

That said, Magic Mountain has seen it's attendance decline steadily in the last five years; from 3.3 Million in 2000 to 2.8 Million in 2005. (Disneyland was 13.9 Million in '00 and had 14.6 Million in '05) There are seasonal Six Flags parks back East with a smaller metro area to draw from that are only open 7 months out of the year that are getting higher yearly attendance than Magic Mountain. I would think Mr. Shapiro would be pouring money into Magic Mountain since it has the ability to operate and return profits year round. Although he's been talking this game since he began his national media tour in late February, Magic Mountain is still the seedy, grimy place it's been for the last 15 years.

And that's my real point; Mr. Shapiro has simply stolen a few key phrases from a Jay Rasulo presentation he once heard when he was still with Disney and now he's going around the country talking a good game to any local newspaper in a Six Flags town. Talk is cheap, and I really don't think Mr. Shapiro or the Six Flags board has the money, the willpower, or the real desire to invest the years and hundreds of millions of dollars it's going to take to get Six Flags even close to where Mr. Shapiro says they should be.

I bet two churros that three years from now Mr. Shapiro won't even work for Six Flags anymore, and they'll be right back where they started from in a graffiti filled queue. Am I "bashing" Six Flags? Yeah, but only cause they deserve it and Mr. Shapiro has invited the scrutiny himself. :lol:

 

[FourFourSeven]

I went to Six Flags Great America yesterday. I'm a dad, our family of five (myself, wife, kids 7, 5, and 1) haven't been to Six Flags for two years, because we were very unimpressed last visit. However, we decided to give it a try again. And we're EXACTLY the "new" target market for the parks.

Read on - this is interesting:

(Note that we didn't expect a "Disney-level" experience - just a fun day out with the kids.


The good
-Characters were everywhere! Last visit, we didn't see any. This visit, they were all over the place (and the costumes were pretty good - not quite Disney-level, but good). Even entering the parking lot, Bugs was out there waving.
-The staff. Believe it or not, almost every staff member was enthusiastic, helpful, smiling, and friendly. I don't know if it was only because it was a pleasant, uncrowded day, or if it's a result of new training, but the staff was the best I'd ever seen at a Six Flags park, by a long shot
-Cleanliness. The park looked MUCH cleaner. Lots of fresh paint. No smoking means no cigarette butts, and much cleaner air.

So yes, they've made some significant strides in aiming for the family market.

Needs some help
-The parade. They had one nice float with all the Warner Bros. characters on it, a car, and maybe a trolley or two. It was really, REALLY lame. The float was nice - they needed at least four or five more, but it needs work, lots of work. (The kids did like when the float exploded confetti out of the top). At least they're trying - maybe they'll figure it out over a few years.
-Some staff training. Most lines were very tolerable. However, the line for Ragin' Cajun (similar to Primeval Whirl at Animal Kingdom) was very slow. Why? Because they were sending cars with only two people in them, instead of four. It made no sense!

Needs HUGE improvement
-Food quality and selection - still pretty bad. The taco place I went to didn't have any forks - only spoons. No place seemed to have juice boxes for the kids (despite it showing on their menus). We saw some cotton candy that looked like it was from 2005.

-Prices! I understand that food/parking/etc. costs more in a theme park, I know why, and I'm okay with it. I know a Coke that would cost $1.25 elsewhere will cost $2 at WDW. And a slice of pizza will cost 25%-50% more than at a regular pizza place. But Six Flags food prices were BEYOND outrageous. A slice of pizza was EIGHT dollars! A coke was $3.50! Parking was FIFTEEN DOLLARS! Everything cost 50%-100% more than at Disney!

Our response? We got two slices of pizza for the kids, drank from the water bottles we brought in ourselves, didn't get any (eight dollar) ice creams, and left before dinner! They got sixteen bucks from us with their absurdly inflated prices.

What's amazing is that this cost Six Flags a lot of revenue! If the prices were Disney-like (not cheap, just not outrageous), we would have bought five meals at lunch, stayed for five more at dinner, bought ice cream, bought souveniers, and bought $25 passes to come back another day. Total revenue they would have gotten from us? About $180, PLUS the revenue they'd get from a second visit (another $100+ of food). So Six Flags is down about $300 in revenue from us because they priced a slice of pizza at eight bucks instead of $3.50.


The end result? Ultimately, we had a good time, but the food and parking prices are what stuck with me. At work today, I was talking to several co-workers in the same targeted demographic (families with kids). I told everyone about the improvements, but then talked about the prices for food and parking. EVERYONE was outraged, and three people who were talking about going with their kids this year decided against it.

So Six Flags pricing got an extra:
$7 or so for parking above a "fair" price
$9 or so for pizza above a "fair" price.

And lost:
$100 or so of additional food, snack, and souvenier purchases from me
$100 of "come back later" passes
$8 or so for future "fair price" parking
$80 or so of more food/snacks/etc.
about $400 X 3 more in revenue (3 families who aren't going because of pizza prices.

They gained sixteen bucks from me with their prices, and lost about $1,500. Only one word I can say... wow.


(And now, I hate to think how many more people I've turned off of Six Flags from this post!)

 

[wdwishes2005]

8 BUCKS FOR PIZZA?..... That's insane.. You're not exaggerating at all are you? I'm sorry, but for 8 bucks I want Filet mignon and Crab on my pizza.....