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Six Flags article: How they want to emulate Disney
- Thread starter Iakona
- Start date
coasterbill
New Member
I went to Great adventure the other week and did see some improvement over the last vist. Staff members seemed very friendly (for the area the park is in). It is a basicly a coaster park with a few shows that are nothing great. The park had a day opening little show such as Disney does. It was not bad for what it was. On the negative side, after the park opened most of the rides were not ready and we stood for about 30 minutes before any rides seemed to start to open. We waited in line for 2 hours and 45 minutes for the newer steel coaster and then got out as we had about another hour to go and could not deal with standing in the direct sun any longer. The ride kept going out of service for 15 to 25 minutes at a time. Poor choice to put in a busy park as it does not seat many guests per train.
Out of the park chains I have been to over the past 2 years I would rate them in this order
Disney parks Number 1
Dollywood/Silver Dollar City # 2
Bush Gardens # 3
Universal # 4
Six Flags # 5
Paramount Parks # 6
Out of the park chains I have been to over the past 2 years I would rate them in this order
Disney parks Number 1
Dollywood/Silver Dollar City # 2
Bush Gardens # 3
Universal # 4
Six Flags # 5
Paramount Parks # 6
coasterbill said:
I have worked with SFGAdv many times on productions and I know thanks to our productions we have kept guests waiting on a few occations. So there are many reasons for that. Also, for guest safety (and they are huge with this) they stagger opening times on the coasters to allow enough maintence workers to make sure it is running correctly. They work tirelessly to check every inch of the coaster before opening and sometimes they find something that will delay an opening. As far as the ride going 101, that I can't answer for other then the fact they they have crazy amounts of protection in their Allen and Bradley control system. If one thing is wrong it will E-Stop the attraction until its fixed. Superman's system goes down a lot. The reason is the way the ride tilts riders into flying position. There are a lot of safety features that keep the seat latched in that position and your harness locked.
I hope this wasn't posted here already, but I have to say that I thought that Six Flags' attempt to emulate Disney was a noble effort by new administration to save a failing franchise, but this means it has gone too far:
(as taken from about.com)http://www.smugmug.com/photos/60615476-D.jpg
PrincessTink
New Member
I was just at Six Flags Great America today. It in no way can compare to Disney in any aspect (except maybe rollercoasters). Its dirty, seems totally unorganized, and roudy people everywhere. The food is gross, and its pretty much just pizza throughout the whole park. I even saw a few stores with Disney merchandise. Don't even get me started on the parade, 4 floats (one being a car).
coasterbill
New Member
I will be intrested to see how Six Flags over Texas is now. I was there 2 years ago and at that point it was about the best Six Flags I had been to. No Disney for sure but at least they still did a rather good quality production show and had others shows that were ok as well. I like a mix of quality shows and rides at a park which is why I so like parks like Dollywood.
DW1
Active Member
crowds are terrible
I live near 6 flags new england and it is a nice way to spend a few hours on a weekend with the kids. I do believe the six flags c. is trying to improve it's rep. Everything is nicely painted and clean (sometimes hiding the fact that some of these rides are old rides dressed up with a character sign).
The one beef I have that they can never seemingly clean up is the crowd type. People with families avoid six flags here because of the scumbag visitors that swarm the park. Season passes are very cheap and it seem like area gangs are the ones most taking advantage of it. I constatntly see characters be swarmed and forced to pose with punks in their 20's flashing gang signs and invisible guns. Last week the first EMPLOYEE I saw (directing traffic in the parking lot) stuck out his chest at me and said "what, what you gonna do" just cause I walked by with my 2 little boys and wife. Last year a lady was SHAVING HER LEGS in the tide pool, razor and cream. unfreaking real. Thats why they will never get the Disney atmosphere.
I live near 6 flags new england and it is a nice way to spend a few hours on a weekend with the kids. I do believe the six flags c. is trying to improve it's rep. Everything is nicely painted and clean (sometimes hiding the fact that some of these rides are old rides dressed up with a character sign).
The one beef I have that they can never seemingly clean up is the crowd type. People with families avoid six flags here because of the scumbag visitors that swarm the park. Season passes are very cheap and it seem like area gangs are the ones most taking advantage of it. I constatntly see characters be swarmed and forced to pose with punks in their 20's flashing gang signs and invisible guns. Last week the first EMPLOYEE I saw (directing traffic in the parking lot) stuck out his chest at me and said "what, what you gonna do" just cause I walked by with my 2 little boys and wife. Last year a lady was SHAVING HER LEGS in the tide pool, razor and cream. unfreaking real. Thats why they will never get the Disney atmosphere.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
Expo_Seeker40 said:
The differance is that Story Town (The Great Escape) predated any Disney theme park.
Below thanks to www.gecentral.com
The Great Escape & Splashwater Kingdom is an amusement park and water park located in Queensbury, New York. It is near Lake George, New York.
The Great Escape was opened in 1954 as StoryTown USA, a Mother Goose themed amusement park. In 1957 realizing that the park was geared only towards small children, the park opened its Ghost Town area, the first of many themed areas opened in the parks history.
In 1983 the park officially changed its name from StoryTown USA to The Great Escape. The next year the Great Escape opens its first of its eventual seven roller coasters, The Steamin' Demon.
Perhaps the most unique attraction at The Great Escape is The Comet. Re-opened at The Great Escape in 1994, this roller coaster already had a 41-year history as The Comet at Crystal Beach (an amusement park near St. Catherine's, Ontario). Roller coaster enthusiasts recognize it as one of the best wooden roller coasters in North America.
In 1983 the park officially changed its name from StoryTown USA to The Great Escape. The next year the Great Escape opens its first of its eventual seven roller coasters, The Steamin' Demon.
Perhaps the most unique attraction at The Great Escape is The Comet. Re-opened at The Great Escape in 1994, this roller coaster already had a 41-year history as The Comet at Crystal Beach (an amusement park near St. Catherine's, Ontario). Roller coaster enthusiasts recognize it as one of the best wooden roller coasters in North America.
The link below shows some pics and park map from the early years.
Now you can see what Six Flags has done to let this landmark of an amusement park deteriorate. Since my last visit last year I had seen many improvements and they continue. Thankfully it has been recognized by Mark Shapiro as a key in the growth of the amusement park chain and has put a safegaurd on its existance.
With the direction that Six Flags is going we should see a much changed theme park. At some point they might just come close to what a Disney park is. Na, it probably won't happen, but it would be nice to have a least a better theme park close to home for those weekend visits.
PhilharMagician
Well-Known Member
Here is the obituary for the creator for all that may be interested.
OBITUARY
<HEDLINE><HL1>Charles R. Wood; amusement park creator; 90</HL1></HEDLINE>
<HEDLINE><HL2><!-- SUBHEAD --></HL2></HEDLINE><!-- CUTLINE: --><B><BYLINE>By Douglas Martin</BYLINE></B>
<BYTTL>NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE</BYTTL>
<STORY.DATE>October 16, 2004</STORY.DATE> <BODY.CONTENT>Charles R. Wood, who dreamed up an amusement park based on Mother Goose rhymes, and then invested his life savings and hammered nails himself to create it, died Sept. 30 at home in Glens Falls, N.Y. He was 90, having lived 10 years after doctors ordered him to stop riding his own roller coasters.
Clad in loud sport coats and likely as not behind the wheel of Greta Garbo's 1933 custom Duesenberg, which he owned for many years, Mr. Wood presaged Walt Disney in developing new ways for people to have fun.
Beth Robertson, vice president of the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, said he was one of the first to develop the "idea of theming a park based on an idea and a character," when he opened Storytown U.S.A. in 1954 in Queensbury, N.Y., a year before Disneyland.
"Charley Wood is considered the grandfather of the American theme park," Robertson said in an interview.
But Storytown was preceded in 1946 by Holiday World in Santa Claus, Ind., and in 1949 by North Pole village, near Lake Placid, N.Y., so Mr. Wood was not the first person to conceive an organizing principle for a new kind of roadside attraction. In postwar America, a new and tempting market clearly beckoned: People were having lots of children, loved to drive and had grown leery of old-time garish midways.
Storytown stood out by offering horse-driven rides in pumpkin-shaped carriages, a replica of Cinderella's castle, and much more, including a Ghost Town for the hard-to-reach adult male customer.
He also amassed an empire of amusement activities in the Lake George area, including other amusement parks, all or parts of at least a dozen resorts, restaurants, hotels, a classic car museum, a wax museum and more.
Robertson said Mr. Wood was a pioneer in what she called "clustering of activities," offering "a destination vacation" with all kinds of things to do.
Charles Reeves Wood was born April 28, 1914, in Lockport, N.Y. Even in high school, he demonstrated an entrepreneurial bent by buying houses, including one for his parents, Funworld magazine reported in 2003.
He spent less than a year at the University of Michigan, and then worked for General Motors and Curtiss-Wright, the aircraft equipment maker. In World War II, he spent 38 months overseas, first servicing aircraft for the Royal Air Force, and then working for Douglas Aircraft in the Pacific.
After the war, his thoughts turned to a trip he made in 1937, at the age of 23, to Knott's Berry Farm, which made money during the depths of the Depression with what was later seen as a prototype of the theme park.
"I came back full of beans and wanted to get into the amusement business," he told Funworld.
He first tried to buy a roller rink but was unsuccessful. He then bought a mansion on Lake George and turned it into a resort. Even though guests thought the lake was gorgeous, they told him there was not enough to do in the area.
So in 1954, he and his wife, Margaret, invested $75,000 in five acres of swampy land in Queensbury, five miles outside the village of Lake George. Mr. Wood worked feverishly, sleeping just three hours a night, to build the park.
In 1982, he renamed Storytown the Great Escape to broaden its appeal. Also that year, he acquired Fantasy Island, an amusement park in the Buffalo, N.Y., area.
In 1989, he sold both parks to the International Broadcasting Corp., and then bought them back when the buyer went bankrupt. In 1996, he again sold the Great Escape, this time to Premier Parks, now known as Six Flags. He sold Fantasy Island to a Buffalo businessman.
Between the sales, in 1994, he bought the Comet, a roller coaster that once stood in Crystal Beach, Ontario, where it was called the Cyclone. Coaster enthusiasts consider it one of the world's best wooden coasters. He moved it to Queensbury.
Mr. Wood's millions of dollars in charitable contributions went to health care, the arts and children in need. With the actor Paul Newman, he founded the Double "H" Hole in the Woods Ranch, in Lake Luzerne, N.Y., for children with cancer and blood-related diseases. Mr. Wood's first wife, Margaret, died in 1976. He is survived by his wife, Josie Beckos Wood; his daughters, Barbara Wages of Burlington, Conn., and Charlene Courtney of Saratoga Springs, N.Y.; his stepdaughter, Barbara Beckos McDonald of Syracuse; his stepson, Dean Beckos of Glens Falls; his sisters, Grace Wood Williams of Rochester, N.Y., and Frances Sterndale of Albany, N.Y.; 11 grandchildren; and three stepgrandchildren.
OBITUARY
<HEDLINE><HL1>Charles R. Wood; amusement park creator; 90</HL1></HEDLINE>
<HEDLINE><HL2><!-- SUBHEAD --></HL2></HEDLINE><!-- CUTLINE: --><B><BYLINE>By Douglas Martin</BYLINE></B>
<BYTTL>NEW YORK TIMES NEWS SERVICE</BYTTL>
<STORY.DATE>October 16, 2004</STORY.DATE> <BODY.CONTENT>Charles R. Wood, who dreamed up an amusement park based on Mother Goose rhymes, and then invested his life savings and hammered nails himself to create it, died Sept. 30 at home in Glens Falls, N.Y. He was 90, having lived 10 years after doctors ordered him to stop riding his own roller coasters.
Clad in loud sport coats and likely as not behind the wheel of Greta Garbo's 1933 custom Duesenberg, which he owned for many years, Mr. Wood presaged Walt Disney in developing new ways for people to have fun.
Beth Robertson, vice president of the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, said he was one of the first to develop the "idea of theming a park based on an idea and a character," when he opened Storytown U.S.A. in 1954 in Queensbury, N.Y., a year before Disneyland.
"Charley Wood is considered the grandfather of the American theme park," Robertson said in an interview.
But Storytown was preceded in 1946 by Holiday World in Santa Claus, Ind., and in 1949 by North Pole village, near Lake Placid, N.Y., so Mr. Wood was not the first person to conceive an organizing principle for a new kind of roadside attraction. In postwar America, a new and tempting market clearly beckoned: People were having lots of children, loved to drive and had grown leery of old-time garish midways.
Storytown stood out by offering horse-driven rides in pumpkin-shaped carriages, a replica of Cinderella's castle, and much more, including a Ghost Town for the hard-to-reach adult male customer.
He also amassed an empire of amusement activities in the Lake George area, including other amusement parks, all or parts of at least a dozen resorts, restaurants, hotels, a classic car museum, a wax museum and more.
Robertson said Mr. Wood was a pioneer in what she called "clustering of activities," offering "a destination vacation" with all kinds of things to do.
Charles Reeves Wood was born April 28, 1914, in Lockport, N.Y. Even in high school, he demonstrated an entrepreneurial bent by buying houses, including one for his parents, Funworld magazine reported in 2003.
He spent less than a year at the University of Michigan, and then worked for General Motors and Curtiss-Wright, the aircraft equipment maker. In World War II, he spent 38 months overseas, first servicing aircraft for the Royal Air Force, and then working for Douglas Aircraft in the Pacific.
After the war, his thoughts turned to a trip he made in 1937, at the age of 23, to Knott's Berry Farm, which made money during the depths of the Depression with what was later seen as a prototype of the theme park.
"I came back full of beans and wanted to get into the amusement business," he told Funworld.
He first tried to buy a roller rink but was unsuccessful. He then bought a mansion on Lake George and turned it into a resort. Even though guests thought the lake was gorgeous, they told him there was not enough to do in the area.
So in 1954, he and his wife, Margaret, invested $75,000 in five acres of swampy land in Queensbury, five miles outside the village of Lake George. Mr. Wood worked feverishly, sleeping just three hours a night, to build the park.
In 1982, he renamed Storytown the Great Escape to broaden its appeal. Also that year, he acquired Fantasy Island, an amusement park in the Buffalo, N.Y., area.
In 1989, he sold both parks to the International Broadcasting Corp., and then bought them back when the buyer went bankrupt. In 1996, he again sold the Great Escape, this time to Premier Parks, now known as Six Flags. He sold Fantasy Island to a Buffalo businessman.
Between the sales, in 1994, he bought the Comet, a roller coaster that once stood in Crystal Beach, Ontario, where it was called the Cyclone. Coaster enthusiasts consider it one of the world's best wooden coasters. He moved it to Queensbury.
Mr. Wood's millions of dollars in charitable contributions went to health care, the arts and children in need. With the actor Paul Newman, he founded the Double "H" Hole in the Woods Ranch, in Lake Luzerne, N.Y., for children with cancer and blood-related diseases. Mr. Wood's first wife, Margaret, died in 1976. He is survived by his wife, Josie Beckos Wood; his daughters, Barbara Wages of Burlington, Conn., and Charlene Courtney of Saratoga Springs, N.Y.; his stepdaughter, Barbara Beckos McDonald of Syracuse; his stepson, Dean Beckos of Glens Falls; his sisters, Grace Wood Williams of Rochester, N.Y., and Frances Sterndale of Albany, N.Y.; 11 grandchildren; and three stepgrandchildren.
Shaman
Well-Known Member
Iakona said:
How much of an escape is it, if it just becomes an outing, wouldn't a park be something ordinary if it is right around the corner? It would be like a trip to the movies or the mall....
The fact is, when you take time off work, you're on vacation and are seeking to escape...and thats where Disney comes in...especially at WDW, where the real word is strongly kept out of the big gates....most people have to travel long distances sure...but that is what escaping is all about.
All that being said, I think its a great move for Six Flags....a smart move.
(I missed this the first time around)
EpcotForever82
New Member
I'm sure a 19 year old knows better punctuation and grammar. Let me remind you, ppl, cuz, y, and u, aren't words. I'm, don't, doesn't, and isn't, have an apostrophe. When the word " I " stands alone, it is always capitalized. Please, get a dictionary.
Let me express my thoughts on this. Six Flags, Universal, and the Paromount Parks all have the same feel to me. A feel that doesn't exactly make me fit into the park. I usually don't have as much of fun if I visit these parks I listed above. There's just classic attractions that you can't expirence at any other parks. That's what makes Disney different..
-Space
Disney is better than Hershey, Cedar Fair, Paramount Parks, Six Flags, and any other major amusement chain (or minor amusement chain, for that matter) simply because of the immersiveness of the Disney experience. Both WDW and DL are vacation resorts that one can easily spend several days at. These other chains have destinations that one may stop at for a day, either to go somewhere else by the end of the day or just go home. The only exception to this rule is Universal Orlando, as it has as many parks and hotels as DL, but DL, as the original park, far surpasses what UO can offer. The immersiveness continues well beyond just resort size, as, in Disney, every last little thing is Disney. As I posted earlier, Six Flags is now trying to sell Disney merchandise, and at the Hard Rock Hotel at UO, all one sees is Hard Rock related stuff, not Universal items at all. This immersiveness continues into the parks, where, as one changes land in Disney, the music and mood and trees and shrubs and pavement and architecture and CM costumes all change, to immerse you in the experience. In other parks, when one moves from land to land, they, at most, get a sign saying that they are now in a different land. This Disney immersiveness continues to even the most minute detail, as everyone loves to find hidden Mickey's or to go searching for all of those little secrets that an entire forum is devoted to. Disney's immersiveness is a critical piece of the Disney magic, and that is what will keep people coming back and keep Disney at the top of amusement parks. Even if there is a gift shop at the end of every ride, all the park icons change to pin emporiums, and basically everything is converted to be themed to Finding Nemo, the immersiveness will draw croawds back.
As for why the other parks still exist, Six Flags and Paramount Parks and Cedar Fair draw crowds based on the fact that they have many parks throughout the country, so they have a park close to the masses. They exist purely because they are only one-day attractions. They also do well because they have bigger thrills that Disney doesn't offer. Disney has tried with RnR and ToT and CS, but in all 6 American Disney parks, there are not as many major thrills for coaster-loving thrill junkies as there are in either Cedar Point or Six Flags Great Adventure alone. Universal, on the other hand, does well for itself because it just converts that "real movie studio" feel better than MGM does, even if it means less theming, and with that has added some thrills (at IOA) that are still more intense than anything Disney offers.
As for why the other parks still exist, Six Flags and Paramount Parks and Cedar Fair draw crowds based on the fact that they have many parks throughout the country, so they have a park close to the masses. They exist purely because they are only one-day attractions. They also do well because they have bigger thrills that Disney doesn't offer. Disney has tried with RnR and ToT and CS, but in all 6 American Disney parks, there are not as many major thrills for coaster-loving thrill junkies as there are in either Cedar Point or Six Flags Great Adventure alone. Universal, on the other hand, does well for itself because it just converts that "real movie studio" feel better than MGM does, even if it means less theming, and with that has added some thrills (at IOA) that are still more intense than anything Disney offers.
ClemsonTigger
Naturally Grumpy
I don't think Shapiro is saying he wants TO BE DisneyWorld at all. He is showing good business sense in using them as a model and identifying what works.
While remaining a "coaster park", by improving cleanliness, overall experience, value, family orientation, you can appeal to a much larger audience. There is more than enough room for both kinds of parks. It is also a good approach not to waste your money on the "arms race" of bigger, faster, higher as there is no ROE. Keep the ones you have clean and working.
Having not been to SFGA even though I'm just 40 min from it because I don't want to go through metal detectors and wait in line between NY and Philly gang wannabe's...any change would be good.
While remaining a "coaster park", by improving cleanliness, overall experience, value, family orientation, you can appeal to a much larger audience. There is more than enough room for both kinds of parks. It is also a good approach not to waste your money on the "arms race" of bigger, faster, higher as there is no ROE. Keep the ones you have clean and working.
Having not been to SFGA even though I'm just 40 min from it because I don't want to go through metal detectors and wait in line between NY and Philly gang wannabe's...any change would be good.
raven
Well-Known Member
I think any amusement company that will try to emulate Disney will find it diffucult due to their parks already being constructed years ago. WDI plans their parks years in advance and builds accordingly to a story that is being told. They cover all angles that a guest sees, hears and smells to totaly submerse people into a story or theame. Others can try but it will be very diffucult to copy.
ClemsonTigger said:
I have to agree that Shapiro is mainly using Disney as a model, and I also have to say that he has been doing a rather good job. I have had season passes to SFGA for the past 2 years, and the changes that have already occurred are striking. SFGA is not the gang hangout it once was, but that may be more because one day ticket prices are $60 than security, but security also is doing a good job. To those who have been to Six Flags parks, yes, this season SFGA does actually have security, and pretty good security at that. I have not seen any fights this year, and I have seen about a dozen line cutters get ejected from the park (even the DJ's placed to work on the rides with longer lines have helped in preventing line cutting). I have been to the park 5 times this season, and, outside of one coaster that valleyed and has serious problems, all coasters have been running daily and running all trains. Also, the park is a lot cleaner than in the past, and its evident that new trees and shrubs have been planted and more garbage cans have been palced around the park. The Six Flags chain still has a long way to go, but I can at least attest to the fact that, if you've been driven away from Six Flags parks in the past, they are worth another shot.
majortom1981
Active Member
I agree wh yall the six flags bashing
I agree why all the Six Flags bashing. I would have thought disney fans would not do this maybe I was wrong.
Great Adventure does have the potential to be Disney., They have had Wild Safari al ong time before Disney put up the animal kingdom.
IF you look at the theming of the park when it opened in the 70's it had disney type theming. The new owners know this.
At least Great Adventure does have the potential. They even own 2200 acres that only 500 of those acres are developed.
Also shapiro and Snyder also stated they are looking to do movies and cartoons and stuff in the future too.
So beleive what you want but Six Flags has the possibility to become the next Disney.
Just look at the abcklash when they announced that they might close Magic Mountain.
Don't beleive me that Great Adventure used to be disney like when it opened go here http://amusementpics.com/GA 1974 Guidebook.htm
I agree why all the Six Flags bashing. I would have thought disney fans would not do this maybe I was wrong.
Great Adventure does have the potential to be Disney., They have had Wild Safari al ong time before Disney put up the animal kingdom.
IF you look at the theming of the park when it opened in the 70's it had disney type theming. The new owners know this.
At least Great Adventure does have the potential. They even own 2200 acres that only 500 of those acres are developed.
Also shapiro and Snyder also stated they are looking to do movies and cartoons and stuff in the future too.
So beleive what you want but Six Flags has the possibility to become the next Disney.
Just look at the abcklash when they announced that they might close Magic Mountain.
Don't beleive me that Great Adventure used to be disney like when it opened go here http://amusementpics.com/GA 1974 Guidebook.htm
newfanatic
New Member
Sorry, but not true. I wish it was, as I live only 40 minutes from GA. I was there last week for the first time in 15 years. I went all the time as a teenager, and I love roller coasters. However, the skanky crowd finally drove me away until I gave it another try last week.majortom1981 said:
I will say, the park looked much better. Some nice landscaping and stuff that was not there before. And I also was impressed by the security. However, the service was no where near Disney. Because of its location, it is a seasonal park and therefore ends up hiring a lot of teenagers and such. You get what you pay for. There was no line control whatsoever, and most employees were not paying attention to the lines at all. Trying to get waited on in the ice cream shop turned out to be an impossible task, even though there were only two other people in there. The food and drinks were priced beyond ridiculous--it made the movie theaters and baseball stadiums look good.
The crowd, while better behaved than my last visit, was still skanky. GA's primary deomographic is still the coaster riding teen, as evidenced by the teenybopper and rap music continuously blaring throughout the park and seriously grating on my nerves. They still have a lot of work to do to appeal to the family crowd, which would make it an annual one day visit for me. But I will never be able to put it in the same league as Disney. If you try to compare, you will only be disappointed.