Service Dogs

[Goofyernmost]

Just got a news alert on my phone that a passenger on a Southwest flight was bitten by a dog. Didn't even bother to open the article to read it....unless someone was threatening the handler of the "service animal" I can't imagine a properly trained and needed service dog biting anyone. Now I know that animals can be unpredictable (as can humans) but I just don't see it happening.

The last report I heard about that was that the little girl moved quickly and brushed against the teeth of the dog. She was not bitten and the wound was very minor. No attack, no biting just an accident. But, what good is news if it's not sensationalized. Where is Walter Cronkite when you need him. That was the last word I heard about it, time will tell if that remains the same or not.

 

[mergatroid]

Is it buttered popcorn or just plain? But, just to clarify that is what made my comment tongue in check.

I realised that my friend, I can take a joke from anyone (even those I've disagreed with on different subjects). We're all good

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Does WDW even have any kind of policy for or enforcement of Service Dogs?

*Begin Rant*

So we were down in Epcot yesterday for V-Day and were having a smoke break by Norway. There were a bunch of people doing the same, so we sat on the bricks by the bushes.

The was a pretty black lab with a service dog vest wandering around completely unsupervised dragging it's leash going up to everyone to be petted and begging for food. It obviously was a fake service dog.

It wandered it's way behind the bushes where we were sitting. Luckily - and I say luckily for WDW - I was looking at him (I was going to scratch his head if he had come a couple inches closer) when I saw his leg going up.

I pysically shoved my wife off the little wall just in time for the stream of **** to flow right where she had been half a second earlier...

She screamed... I yelled What The Fu....

Did the owner (yeah they were right there smoking) even say or do anything? Nope. No grabbing their dog, no apology, nothing. They just continue to let their dog wander around aimlessly.

We got out of there otherwise it would have gotten ugly.

Had that dog actually ****ed on my wife? They would have heard the commotion all the way in the Magic Kingdom...

If Disney wants to let fake service dogs in their parks then that is fine, but they need to be prepared for some problems if they don't do something...

*end rant*

Anybody else experience problems with them?

Last year I called a lady out on it going into Disneyland. She had some little dog and I mentioned how it was convenient she could just bring him in. She was appalled and said, I got him certified, I replied I could get my dog "certified" too in about 5 minutes on the internet. Later that day I saw a massive great sane on main street. These people don't even have to pay hotel dog fees, something thus woman was bragging to her husband and prompted my confrontation.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

Read this but make sure ok with your blood pressure going up first...because blood will boil!
http://www.cracked.com/personal-exp...e-faking-disabilities-to-get-service-dog.html

 

[mlee10]

Read this but make sure ok with your blood pressure going up first...because blood will boil!
http://www.cracked.com/personal-exp...e-faking-disabilities-to-get-service-dog.html

That about covers how abused the issue is! And blood boiling indeed. However the article does make a good point regarding not being able to see some disabilities. Looking at my daughter you would never know that she has epilepsy or that she has a need for a service animal. This is just another reason that it is so frustrating that people abuse this. She does however wear medical alert bracelets so we are able to show that, I usually find myself giving way to much information so I can defend why we have a service dog, which really makes the blood boil!

 

[mergatroid]

Some methods to spot fakes: (i also have no problem walking up to an owner and questioning whether it's a true service dog or not)

1. Reach out your hand to see if the dog comes over. MOST service dogs will not as they're very well trained and will not leave their owners side.

2. Have some food / munchies in your hand and sit down somewhere, whistle for the dog to come over while you're eating. If it's a true service dog they will not move.

3. If you see any "service dog" hop up on furniture, they are a fake.

4. This one is tougher to spot but most service dogs will only go to the bathroom upon command. If you see one just randomly lifting it's leg to pee or whatever, then further investigating should take place.

Does this include animals that aren't there to 'guide' guests such as dogs that can sense epilepsy?

 

[mergatroid]

Not entirely sure about that.

Fair enough. I know 'guide dogs' (as we call them in England) are very well trained as a blind gentlemen I worked with had one and it was good as gold.

 

[mlee10]

Some methods to spot fakes: (i also have no problem walking up to an owner and questioning whether it's a true service dog or not)

1. Reach out your hand to see if the dog comes over. MOST service dogs will not as they're very well trained and will not leave their owners side.

2. Have some food / munchies in your hand and sit down somewhere, whistle for the dog to come over while you're eating. If it's a true service dog they will not move.

3. If you see any "service dog" hop up on furniture, they are a fake.

4. This one is tougher to spot but most service dogs will only go to the bathroom upon command. If you see one just randomly lifting it's leg to pee or whatever, then further investigating should take place.

1. I would say this is fairly accurate. Depending on the level of training and if the owner has continued proper training with the dog. For the most part unless we gave her the go ahead our Nala doesn't leave Layla.

2. True

3. Our service dog IS allowed on the furniture as that was the way we requested she be trained. However, for the most part she NEVER gets on the furniture unless our daughter is also on said furniture.

4. True (at least in our case)

 

[mlee10]

Please know that for the most part (there are bad service dog owners out there) if a service animal is the REAL DEAL, you shouldn't have to ask. They will be well behaved and you should hardly notice they are there. I know in our case it's kind of hard not to notice a 70lb German Shepard but she if very good at disappearing. I think @jloucks would agree that properly trained service dogs take their work very seriously.

 

[jloucks]

Please know that for the most part (there are bad service dog owners out there) if a service animal is the REAL DEAL, you shouldn't have to ask. They will be well behaved and you should hardly notice they are there. I know in our case it's kind of hard not to notice a 70lb German Shepard but she if very good at disappearing. I think @jloucks would agree that properly trained service dogs take their work very seriously.

Definitely. The way they are raised seems to an outsider as pretty harsh. No playing ball, very little non-kennel free time (or none, really). These dogs are trained to be work dogs. Tools for people. They take their jobs super seriously as that is how they were raised as pups.

Another fun fact folks might not know about real service dogs is that they are bred to be service dogs. Generation after generation after generation of dogs are intentionally propagated based on their personalities/behaviors. Only the cream of the crop are not sterilized and allowed to breed. In other words, you don't even see the best of the best. I have, they are amazing.

So, another indicator you have a real service dog is that they are sterilized to protect the Intellectual/genetic property (if that is the right tern here?) of the program. It is a super giant no-no to let you dog impregnate, or be impregnated, during training.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Some methods to spot fakes: (i also have no problem walking up to an owner and questioning whether it's a true service dog or not)

1. Reach out your hand to see if the dog comes over. MOST service dogs will not as they're very well trained and will not leave their owners side.

2. Have some food / munchies in your hand and sit down somewhere, whistle for the dog to come over while you're eating. If it's a true service dog they will not move.

3. If you see any "service dog" hop up on furniture, they are a fake.

4. This one is tougher to spot but most service dogs will only go to the bathroom upon command. If you see one just randomly lifting it's leg to pee or whatever, then further investigating should take place.

The main problem with that system, is that guide dogs are train professionally because a person with a vision problem cannot afford to have a dog that will yell out "Squirrel" and then run after it. However, there are many types of service animals and those are allowed to be trained by the person or persons using the animal for that service. No formal training, no rigid rules of behavior, etc. This is allowed by the law. So most of those "warning" signs really mean nothing.

 

[mlee10]

The issue is that people think that because they have depression, anxiety or loneliness that their dogs are "service dogs" or "working dogs" and that's not the case. Comfort dogs are not working dogs or service dogs. People that abuse this system should be put in jail honestly.

I can understand dogs that give warnings to someone having a seizure, but that really is the ONLY case. The rest of the cases are for service dogs that are professionally trained.

Our dog is a "seizure alert dog" and she was professionally trained. We then went for 10 days of specialized training with her. So there are A LOT of service dogs that are professionally trained for a lot of different things.

The dogs you mention are emotional support animals vs. service animals.....that is where the problem began. A service dog most definatly has a "specific job", in other words they perform some sort of job for their owner. In our case, Nala alerts during seizures and helps to calm anxiety which is a trigger for seizures, she has also started to show signs of knowing when a seizure might be coming. She spent a long time in training. We did not "pick" her, she was chosen for us for the specific tasks we needed her for. We also work very hard to make sure her training is followed and even have follow up visits with her trainers when we see issues starting to arise. Again just like with anything, there are responsible and irresponsible service dog owners.

 

[Polydweller]

The issue is that people think that because they have depression, anxiety or loneliness that their dogs are "service dogs" or "working dogs" and that's not the case. Comfort dogs are not working dogs or service dogs. People that abuse this system should be put in jail honestly.

I can understand dogs that give warnings to someone having a seizure, but that really is the ONLY case. The rest of the cases are for service dogs that are professionally trained.

Not really ONLY. Some service dogs are trained to do things calm a person with PTSD, remind a person to take medications, alert a deaf persons n of hazards, assist persons with autism, and other tasks that human partner has difficulty doing or can’t. All would fit the legal definition of service dog and many of the disabilities and/or needs are hard for others to see.

Notice also tha some of these include anxiety as a component of the need. The only restriction is that their sole role cannot be emotional support or comfort dogs.

 

[wagner1225]

When they opened up a couple of Hotels to pets last year they said in the announcement they have to be Licensed and certified what ever that means, also No Peacocks, airlines turn them down also...PS as you can see by Picture, Bugs Allowed

 

[Polydweller]

The BOLD parts I have problems with. Those do not demand a service dog. Autism, deaf or blind persons, yes of course. Seizures most definitely. I served 10 years as an EOD tech team lead in the Air Force and did 1 stretch in Kuwait and 2 in Iraq and I have seen my fair share of war and PTSD is not something to be taken lightly but it does NOT need a service dog. That is a bit ridiculous. That goes in line with the "comfort dog" and it's not a service dog necessity. I know people have their opinions and that's fine, but seriously.

People take this way too far. Next thing you know it will be "my boyfriend just broke up with me, I need a service dog stat!"

But specifically cited as such by the US Dept of Justice so yes they are. PTSD does not “require” it but controlling the anxiety that can be part of it is legally something a service dog can do, as we’re the other things I mentioned. It isn’t me saying it or my opinion, it’s the DOJ saying it.

 

[jloucks]

Some methods to spot fakes: (i also have no problem walking up to an owner and questioning whether it's a true service dog or not)

1. Reach out your hand to see if the dog comes over. MOST service dogs will not as they're very well trained and will not leave their owners side.

2. Have some food / munchies in your hand and sit down somewhere, whistle for the dog to come over while you're eating. If it's a true service dog they will not move.

3. If you see any "service dog" hop up on furniture, they are a fake.

4. This one is tougher to spot but most service dogs will only go to the bathroom upon command. If you see one just randomly lifting it's leg to pee or whatever, then further investigating should take place.

Mostly true, but like any tool, they can get 'altered' by their *final owners. They can learn some non-typical behaviors, and these behaviors don't automatically downgrade them from Service to Therapy dog.

Sidetrack...... So last night, we were at a school science fair with my daughter and her dog. Many people asked to pet her (the dog, not my daughter) and the answer was always "sorry, not now, she is working". 95% were cool about it. One full grown adult male decided it would be a good idea to then grab the dog on her spine, I suspect pretty hard based on the dogs reaction. My daughter wheeled around responding to the dog lurching and the guy just kinda smirked. At least until he realized I too was watching with dagger eyes from across the room. He skedaddled pretty quick which is a good thing because I almost created a Disney World bus line cutter level scene right there in the classroom.


*Real service dogs retire after a surprisingly short career. I want to say it is only like 5 years, but I would need to verify before anybody quotes me. They are then swapped out. This may vary based on the stress level of the different careers. Dogs basically burn out.

Retired pooches are in high demand, they are not put down or anything like that. You can pick one up for $3,000. I may be getting that confused with wash-out pups during training.

Another random fact (that may only be applicable to the school our dogs go thru)..... so what happens if a trainer falls in such hard love with their dog that giving them back is a soul crushing reality they cannot face? A 'perk' of being a first level trainer is you can buy a dog you fall in too much love with for $12,000. I have actually seen this happen! I was super clear with my kid that this eventuality would NEVER happen. Not to be confused with pups that wash-out or fail the program as I mentioned above.

 

[jloucks]

The BOLD parts I have problems with. Those do not demand a service dog. Autism, deaf or blind persons, yes of course. Seizures most definitely. I served 10 years as an EOD tech team lead in the Air Force and did 1 stretch in Kuwait and 2 in Iraq and I have seen my fair share of war and PTSD is not something to be taken lightly but it does NOT need a service dog. That is a bit ridiculous. That goes in line with the "comfort dog" and it's not a service dog necessity. I know people have their opinions and that's fine, but seriously.

People take this way too far. Next thing you know it will be "my boyfriend just broke up with me, I need a service dog stat!"

If the medication reminder process is based on the dog identifying via smell a chemical imbalance in the owners body, that is absolutely a service animal. There is some pretty significant breeding and training going on there.

I reluctantly agree, PTSD dogs are therapy dogs, not service dogs.

Sheesh,, I know way more than I realized, but come to think of it, lots of service dogs that wash out go on to be therapy dogs. So, you can have a therapy dog that is of a pretty high caliber in pedigree and still retaining some pretty fancy skills (potty on command for example).

...but still not legally a service dog.

Poor pooches... missed it by ---><--- this much.

 

[NormC]

When they opened up a couple of Hotels to pets last year they said in the announcement they have to be Licensed and certified what ever that means...

No. They opened four hotels to all dogs, pets or service in certain rooms. Service dogs were already allowed by Disney in every hotel..

 

[JIMINYCR]

Some methods to spot fakes: (i also have no problem walking up to an owner and questioning whether it's a true service dog or not)
1. Reach out your hand to see if the dog comes over. MOST service dogs will not as they're very well trained and will not leave their owners side.
2. Have some food / munchies in your hand and sit down somewhere, whistle for the dog to come over while you're eating. If it's a true service dog they will not move.
3. If you see any "service dog" hop up on furniture, they are a fake.
4. This one is tougher to spot but most service dogs will only go to the bathroom upon command. If you see one just randomly lifting it's leg to pee or whatever, then further investigating should take place.

It is difficult to list "How to spot Fake service dogs" only because not all handlers work their dogs properly. I agree your list is a start.
But guide dogs or any service dog can be owner trained. Many people will self train their dogs because of the extensively long waiting lists service dog schools have. Not all self trained dogs are trained properly either.
I trained my DW's first dog, but I have an extensive background in training dogs and knew what to do. My DW wanted her 2nd dog to come from a service dog school, her decision, so she waited 3 years for her second dog. Her first dog worked efficiently for her for almost 11 years.
It also takes effort on the handlers part to maintain the training of a service dog and over time even dogs that come from well respected training organizations can fall short of the initial level of training theyve received. It is up to the handler to continually train with their dog to maintain a high level of standard, so their dog can keep the level of work/behavior appropriate. That is expected from a service dog and owner but not all service dog users are doing that.
There are many individuals and orginizations that are unqualified to train service dogs that are providing dogs to people. They know the need is excessive and service dog schools have long waiting lists for dogs so they exist. Many people have been scammed by these people and organizations providing dogs to them that are improperly trained. Unfortunately the govt. hasnt done anything to regulate or qualify who trains and provides these dogs.

Definitely. The way they are raised seems to an outsider as pretty harsh. No playing ball, very little non-kennel free time (or none, really). These dogs are trained to be work dogs. Tools for people. They take their jobs super seriously as that is how they were raised as pups.

No..... Service dogs in training are played with, have plenty of time being handled like any other dog. Play time releases stress and lets the dogs relax. Properly adapted, some play time can also be valuable as a training lesson.
Yes, they are trained to work and follow commands, but they are not tools. They are companions that assist their owners. They do take their jobs seriously but like you and me, they have time off from work and when not working can act as any other dog might. Many dogs will break down and have stress related issued that make them unusable or unsafe because their owners dont allow then to release the pressures of the job.

 

[mergatroid]

On a lighter note the blind gentleman 'Steve' I used to work with had a funny story. He did a lot of charity work himself and went to a blind person's convention evening out. At the convention center they had some pen areas for the dogs whilst their owners were involved in some activity or other. Anyhow my friend Steve had a couple of drinks that evening and got a taxi home, collecting his guide dog first.

Once home he wondered why 'Henna' wasn't behaving as normal as she seemed to be roaming around the house. He thought that maybe she was in desperate need of the toilet and so let her out. His wife came down from the bedroom as she too had heard 'Henna' roaming around and Steve explained she was in the garden.

When she came back in his wife said "Who the bloody hell is that dog?". It turned out that Steve had got the wrong dog when collecting it from the 'pen' due to some mix up . A phone call soon resolved the issue as another bewildered gentleman had got home and his daughter had spotted their dog had also changed so it was soon sorted. He still laughs about it now