-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
SENTINEL Spotrs Commentary: Whitley: No Super Bowl MVP treatment for these teens at D
- Thread starter PhotoDave219
- Start date
spartyinmd
Member
I think I have to point to the fact that in every article Disney has clearly stated that they ask the kids to leave if they are deemed to not be there for a valid reason. If they leave then nothing is done about it in terms of a write up. It is only if they are insubordinate to the cops or security after they are asked to leave that they are issues citations. The fact may be all of the "white" kids that were asked to leave did so and the only ones who were giving attitude about leaving were the black/hispanic raced kids.
As I mentioned in a different post, it's not just that they are teenagers. It's not that they are minorities. It's not that they are big guys.
IMO, they became suspicious because of their numbers. One person fitting the description would not even be noticed UNLESS he was observed doing something illegal. The same goes for two, or even three. Get to four, and they might be picked up on the radar. Five seems to be the tipping point between a couple of friends out for fun vs a gang of guys who might be looking for trouble.
There are many stores near school bus stops around here that have signs stating that no more than three students can be inside at one time.
I remember an old saying that when you start getting male teenagers together, the IQ of the group is determined by dividing the IQ of the smartest person by the number of people in the group. Mob mentality can start to take over, and people become more LIKELY (not always) to misbehave.
Or as "K" would say, "A person is smart; people are stupid." And teenagers, especially males, are notorious for doing stupid things when they get into larger groups. I have 4 brothers, so all they needed was one friend along to become a gang....and they did. Their escapades are funny uncle stories NOW, but my poor mother was not amused at the time.
IMO, they became suspicious because of their numbers. One person fitting the description would not even be noticed UNLESS he was observed doing something illegal. The same goes for two, or even three. Get to four, and they might be picked up on the radar. Five seems to be the tipping point between a couple of friends out for fun vs a gang of guys who might be looking for trouble.
There are many stores near school bus stops around here that have signs stating that no more than three students can be inside at one time.
I remember an old saying that when you start getting male teenagers together, the IQ of the group is determined by dividing the IQ of the smartest person by the number of people in the group. Mob mentality can start to take over, and people become more LIKELY (not always) to misbehave.
Or as "K" would say, "A person is smart; people are stupid." And teenagers, especially males, are notorious for doing stupid things when they get into larger groups. I have 4 brothers, so all they needed was one friend along to become a gang....and they did. Their escapades are funny uncle stories NOW, but my poor mother was not amused at the time.
jasondiff
Member
Everyone who says these guys were doing nothing wrong is incorrect. They were asked to leave private property and refused. THAT IS WRONG. Why do none of the articles make more than a scant mention of the one guy who DID leave, that got in no trouble at all? Because it undermines their story. Whether or not they were doing anything wrong before they were asked to leave, that is another question. But to summarize:
5 kids are asked to leave private property.
1 leaves and nothing at all happens to him.
4 refuse to leave, they are charged with trespass.
I fail to see how the 4 are innocent.
We can argue all we want about whether the deserved to be asked to leave, whether it was racial profiling or not, etc. etc. but in the end it is pretty clear they are in trouble because they didn't respect and cooperate with law enforcement. This disregard for authority is the problem at DTD (and elsewhere), and as The Mom said, it's much more probable that a group of teens, no matter the color, will be more likely to disregard an authority figure than a guy sitting there with one buddy or his girlfriend.
5 kids are asked to leave private property.
1 leaves and nothing at all happens to him.
4 refuse to leave, they are charged with trespass.
I fail to see how the 4 are innocent.
We can argue all we want about whether the deserved to be asked to leave, whether it was racial profiling or not, etc. etc. but in the end it is pretty clear they are in trouble because they didn't respect and cooperate with law enforcement. This disregard for authority is the problem at DTD (and elsewhere), and as The Mom said, it's much more probable that a group of teens, no matter the color, will be more likely to disregard an authority figure than a guy sitting there with one buddy or his girlfriend.
BiggerTigger
Well-Known Member
This is a case of two different stories of what really happened. The young man interviewed for this article made his actions out to be very innocent and clean, where as Disney disagreed with his assessment of that. As the rule in Vegas, the house always wins. And at Disney's house, you follow the rules. I would feel sorry for them had they simply left and then complained about how they were treated, they acted inappropriate when asked to leave, then they get banned, and announce to the world that Disney is unfair. Are they fair for treating people the way they did?
A further thought.
The reason that it appears that groups of minorities are being targeted might be because they are more likely to be with a larger group of friends, DUE to past (or even present) racism. ie, historically, there was a time (not that long ago) when a lone African-American , or Hispanic, or any other minority group (depending upon location) was a target. Therefore, they were taught to travel in groups for safety.
The same is still true for others. A group of twenty something year old females can go into a bar, and might get hit upon, but would not be considered hookers. A lone female would be looked at differently by many men. A lone gay might be in danger; a group would probably be left alone.
However, in the DTD case, " safety in numbers " is conflicting with the past experience that large groups of young males are statistically more likely to start trouble.
As mentioned before, the number of minority individuals being ousted is less, as a whole, when looked at for a whole year, but when they ARE booted, there are more at one time. Sort of like plane crashes. More people die per year in auto accidents, but if a plane crashes, more people are killed at one time, so it makes a bigger impression on us.
Of course, this is just my opinion, based on many years of observation.
The reason that it appears that groups of minorities are being targeted might be because they are more likely to be with a larger group of friends, DUE to past (or even present) racism. ie, historically, there was a time (not that long ago) when a lone African-American , or Hispanic, or any other minority group (depending upon location) was a target. Therefore, they were taught to travel in groups for safety.
The same is still true for others. A group of twenty something year old females can go into a bar, and might get hit upon, but would not be considered hookers. A lone female would be looked at differently by many men. A lone gay might be in danger; a group would probably be left alone.
However, in the DTD case, " safety in numbers " is conflicting with the past experience that large groups of young males are statistically more likely to start trouble.
As mentioned before, the number of minority individuals being ousted is less, as a whole, when looked at for a whole year, but when they ARE booted, there are more at one time. Sort of like plane crashes. More people die per year in auto accidents, but if a plane crashes, more people are killed at one time, so it makes a bigger impression on us.
Of course, this is just my opinion, based on many years of observation.
cptwife80
New Member
The more I read about this story and all the negative things going on at DTD I don't plan on going there anymore. I rather stay in the parks and close to my resort than have to deal with a "mall" type atmosphere. Maybe if Disney improves how they deter trouble makers from going there it will be the nice DTD it used to be.
Oh, you were there? Did they say this? Oh, then by all means, string them up....oops, I mean, lock them up and ban them.
Yes, because all white teenagers are polite, obedient, and respectful. Come to my town and I'll show you a different story. And the blacks and hispanics MUST be grimy, sleazy, skeevy, loud, profane, gangbangers and whatever other adjectives have been used describe them.
Isn't this America? Didn't they have the right to question why they were asked to leave? If they got violent and rude with the authorities, then yeah, they deserved to be kicked out and banned. However, if I remember correctly, didn't the original article quote an officer as saying that only one of the boys said something "kinda smart"? So it seems to me that maybe there isn't anymore to the story then what has been said.
It seems a bit much to make wild, unfounded assumptions (generalizations?) that these guys were yelling at girls, cursing, and generally making a nuisance of themselves. There is nothing in the story to even imply that they were doing anything more than loitering.
My though... many years ago, when I was but a snot nosed 14 year old mkt on his birthday, I went to WDW.
My dear friend Brandon and I (both latino, but psysically as white as white get) went to ride Tower of Terror.
We thought we'd be funny and flip the camera off.
It wasn't funny, and we were thrown out of the Disney/MGM Studios for the day and our parents were called (not cool btw).
Long story short, Disney's thrown out white kids before... I should know, because as far as face value goes, I was one of them.
For the record, we went to MK afterwards and behaved :lol: And my parents made me write a letter of apology and hand deliver it to the maanger who threw us out.
My dear friend Brandon and I (both latino, but psysically as white as white get) went to ride Tower of Terror.
We thought we'd be funny and flip the camera off.
It wasn't funny, and we were thrown out of the Disney/MGM Studios for the day and our parents were called (not cool btw).
Long story short, Disney's thrown out white kids before... I should know, because as far as face value goes, I was one of them.
For the record, we went to MK afterwards and behaved :lol: And my parents made me write a letter of apology and hand deliver it to the maanger who threw us out.
Mouse's Magic
Member
Leave the kids alone. I am glad the vast majority of the band got lifted. The whole situation is absurd anyway. Some rent a cop had a power-trip. Lets try this...lets take a poll of EVERYONE who exits DTD on a given night and lets see how many of them actual bought something. I guarantee at least half dont buy anything. Are they loitering? No. DTD is up against a waterfront...its like a boardwalk for Pete’s sake! Its meant to be strolled up and down...thats half the appeal right there.
beachclubbasics
New Member
Well, golly, Mr. Columnist Guy, the fact that you just HUNG OUT at Downtown Disney and didn't get harassed by security MUST mean they're doing something wrong!
Obviously, based on this little experiment, Disney is run by the KKK's Grand Dragon. Clearly it's reasonable to assume that any non-white person WOULD have been harassed, instead of drawing some CRAZY conclusion, like...oh, I don't know...Disney security/local police only confront people who are actually making a scene and leave people alone who are just smelling the roses.
No, that's ridiculous. This MUST be racial, obviously. Everything in society is, after all!
*sigh*
LOL. Now, I'm not white and no one at Disney ever bothers me. In fact, I would have to say that they are probably even nicer to me than the average white folk. However, I'm a middle aged female....and am light skinned (most people think I am Asian..I'm Native American) so who knows why they are nicer to me. Could it possibly be because I am polite and courteous??? Naw.....lol.
slappy magoo
Well-Known Member
Actually, I'd bet money that's probably why the teenagers thought they had a right to be disrepsectful to the guys hired to keep DTD secure...after all, he's nothing more than a glorified a mall cop...no gun, no power, so why the power trip?...doesn't he know who WE are...we just made a verbal agreement to go to FSU, we've just had out butt kissed all day because we can run and catch a ball and in our soceity that's more important than finding a cure for cancer! We were promised the world, and now this half-a-Barney-Fife's gonne tell us we can't hit on drunk ladies in a nightclub just because we're seventen? Eff em. What are you gonna do?
And then the real deputies come along and the kids are suddenly all "But...but what did WE do?"
I'll agree the fact that almost all of the kids banned from WDW the past few weeks are either black or Latino is kinda disconcerting (whereas for the rest of the year, the demographic of banned people has been MUCH more varied). Is it that the deputies might have a racial bias whereas WDW security by and large does not? Are they truly spending more time watching/targeting/profiling minorities? Could it be that it's these groups of minorities that are behaving in a way that makes them more noticeable, as opposed to it just being the color of their skin? Could it be that the white kids being told to move along actually move along? After all, none of the kids who are asked to move along get banned, only the ones who mouth off.
In a very remote, disconnected way, this reminds me a little bit of the old Tawana Brawley scandal. Even though her story had so many inconsistencies and little evidence to back up her claims of being attacked by white cops, and smeared with feces and thrown into a garbage bag, the community in question had had so many prior negative confrontations with the law that she became a cause celebre. Even as the story was picked apart, she was believed. Even as she contradicted herself, she was believed. Even as the cops were acquitted, not only for lack of evidence to prove they were guilty, there were eyewitnesses who claimed to see Brawley climb into the bag herself and then run home, she was believed.
My father was a cop when he as alive, and while I've heard my share of tales of crooked cops harassing people under the safety of their badge, I've also plenty of stories of good cops handicapped to doing their job thoroughly and well because everyone's waiting to see how they treat their suspects based on the color of their skin.
So again, I ask any of you, if these were innocent kids doing nothing wrong, why were they trying to get into Pleasure Island when they're seventeen? Why didn't they just leave when they were told they couldn't get in (for reasons that had nothing to do with their skin color)? Had seventeen year olds managed to get into Pleasure Island and then get served, would you be OK with that? It wouldn't matter even if there were a glorified mall cop on a power trip, had they not tried to gain access to an age-restricted area, NONE of this would've happened.
wild01ride
Well-Known Member
"I didn't do nuthin'!" is usually what the guys getting busted on COPS! say when they're getting dragged out of their car which just hopped three curbs, took out a mailbox and then dumped its load of crank out the window while being chased by the cops. You don't ever hear some jack-a#$ Slantinel reporter coming to their defense!
:king:
LOL! Hey, quite honestly, this reporter's a tool - none of us know the real situation and none of us can judge.
I don't give a gee-whiz what color someone is, but if they are cussing, using racially, sexually, or otherwise abusive language in the place "Where Dreams Come True", then yes, they should be removed.
:king:
LOL! Hey, quite honestly, this reporter's a tool - none of us know the real situation and none of us can judge.
I don't give a gee-whiz what color someone is, but if they are cussing, using racially, sexually, or otherwise abusive language in the place "Where Dreams Come True", then yes, they should be removed.
BRER DAD
New Member
I have to laugh at these "clowns". I played highschool sports and signed with a semi-pro football team. The number one thing they stress is how you present yourself off the field. To me its just as important if not more then how you perform on the field. FSU should do somthing to "punish" these kids, if they havn't already. I know schools that have pulled scholarships from kids that pulled somekind of senoir prank.
CBOMB
Active Member
Thessair
Well-Known Member
Question? Yes. Refuse to leave private property? Nope.
First off they are not rent a cops, because the local police were called in as well. Second off I strolling around is a lot different then sitting on a park bench. They were sitting on a park bench for a long period of time. They probably did smart off to the the DS.
Pumbas Nakasak
Heading for the great escape.
Toad63 have you ever been to Memingham?? The Avitar looks familiar
toadh63
New Member
Yup - I was stationed there from 86 to 89 - how about you?