Secret Invasion (Marvel Disney+ Series)

[MrPromey]

So do people really like killing established, likeable characters?

…cause I’m starting to not dig it

I'm sorry to see aunt Robin go, especially to cap off this first episode of a D+ show in a cheap emotional way but since this is the MCU where death is now a mere inconvenience, I'm willing to hold my breath a little.

She wasn't a main character but she was shorthand for a good-guy-who-could-be-trusted whenever they needed one.

Black SUV zips up, window rolls down, they see her. They (and we) know she's there to help - not to kill them and without hesitation, story moves on.

At least with Phil Coulson, he got offed in a major movie in a scene where it kind of mattered.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

We'll see, but I don't think it'll have the impact with the general MCU audience that you think it will.

Also its comic stories they can always bring her back, they already have a precedence in the MCU of bringing characters back from the dead as needed, ie Coulson (even if not officially acknowledged).

Oh I don’t think it will have an impact with the “MCU audience” at all. I’d rather they keep more established characters…but that’s just me.

We have to keep a very close eye on that audience. It’s seems to be “downsizing”

Next few years are interesting

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm sorry to see aunt Robin go, especially to cap off this first episode of a D+ show in a cheap emotional way but since this is the MCU where death is now a mere inconvenience, I'm willing to hold my breath a little.

That trick has already kinda “played out”

 

[MrPromey]

That trick has already kinda “played out”

Yeah but that Genie+ is already out of the bottle.

They've made death possibly not matter to the point that there seem to be no lasting consequences to anything in the MCU anymore.

Now that this possibility has been established, how do they ever walk it back?

All the same, it felt like a cheap trick to make this first episode seem "big".

 

[Disney Irish]

Oh I don’t think it will have an impact with the “MCU audience” at all. I’d rather they keep more established characters…but that’s just me.

We have to keep a very close eye on that audience. It’s seems to be “downsizing”

Next few years are interesting

We’ve gone over some of this before…

The issue with keeping established characters around long term is they are played by actors that want ever increasing paychecks, that is part of the reason you continue to get increasing budgets over $250M on movies. You want lower budgets then you have to keep swapping out for lesser known characters played by actors with lower paychecks.

And now we back to the normal sides of this conversation. Had a Freaky Friday moment there for a second…

 

[MrPromey]

We’ve gone over some of this before…

The issue with keeping established characters around long term is they are played by actors that want ever increasing paychecks, that is part of the reason you continue to get increasing budgets over $250M on movies. You want lower budgets then you have to keep swapping out for lesser known characters played by actors with lower paychecks.

And now we back to the normal sides of this conversation. Had a Freaky Friday moment there for a second…

Which is why it made sense to take three of the most popular characters and remove them from the series in one movie at the same time, right?

If you're about to type something about the Black Widow prequel, let me stop you right here.

 

[Disney Irish]

Which is why it made sense to take three of the most popular characters and remove them from the series in one movie at the same time, right?

If you're about to type something about the Black Widow prequel, let me stop you right here.

It made sense for a lot of reasons at the time including the actors themselves wanting to move on to do other things. But as I stated and you rightly pointed out there is ways to bring those characters back if both Marvel and the actors agree to terms. And it’s been rumored that both Evans and RDJ have agreed in principle to come back for the upcoming Avengers movies. Even Scarlett is open to coming back and working with Marvel again.

So anything is possible in the world of comics, as was once said in another franchise “no one’s ever really gone”.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Hey, gang. We have a Spoiler thread...

SPOILER: Secret Invasion (Marvel/Disney+ Jun 21, 2023)

Don't confuse it with Secret Wars. -Not a Skrull

forums.wdwmagic.com

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It made sense for a lot of reasons at the time including the actors themselves wanting to move on to do other things. But as I stated and you rightly pointed out there is ways to bring those characters back if both Marvel and the actors agree to terms. And it’s been rumored that both Evans and RDJ have agreed in principle to come back for the upcoming Avengers movies. Even Scarlett is open to coming back and working with Marvel again.

So anything is possible in the world of comics, as was once said in another franchise “no one’s ever really gone”.

Yep…Downey definitely wanted “art” now…I think he’s doing a car show on max

…Bob Iger is still
Around though

 

[Disney Irish]

Yep…Downey definitely wanted “art” now…I think he’s doing a car show on max

…Bob Iger is still
Around though

Actually his last film was a documentary about his father, a huge passion project. And then he'll be in Nolan's Oppenheimer next month, which he took a huge pay cut on because he wanted to work on the film with Nolan.

So yeah he was wanting to work on some passion projects, things he wouldn't have been able to do had he still been locked in playing Stark.

But you go ahead and think he is doing nothing but some "car show on Max", which doesn't even exist.

 

[MrPromey]

It made sense for a lot of reasons at the time including the actors themselves wanting to move on to do other things. But as I stated and you rightly pointed out there is ways to bring those characters back if both Marvel and the actors agree to terms. And it’s been rumored that both Evans and RDJ have agreed in principle to come back for the upcoming Avengers movies. Even Scarlett is open to coming back and working with Marvel again.

So anything is possible in the world of comics, as was once said in another franchise “no one’s ever really gone”.

I don't know. Call me crazy but you know what might have made more sense?

Staggering them a little. They couldn't even off one in Infinity War and another in Endgame...

I mean, ScarJo had a prequel lined up to be filmed after all of that so she wasn't out at that point.

Anyway, we're basically looking at a reboot now and current MCU results speak for themselves.

Maybe they'll right it or maybe they won't.

I know you can't imagine a world where it isn't great so I guess we don't have anything more to discuss.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't know. Call me crazy but you know what might have made more sense?

Staggering them a little. They couldn't even off one in Infinity War and another in Endgame...

I mean, ScarJo had a prequel lined up to be filmed after all of that so she wasn't out at that point.

Anyway, we're basically looking at a reboot now and current MCU results speak for themselves.

Maybe they'll right it or maybe they won't.

I know you can't imagine a world where it isn't great so I guess we don't have anything more to discuss.

It made sense story wise why things ended for those 3 characters the way they did, End Game was a natural end to that saga and the arcs for those characters.

As for a "reboot", I sort of agree it is like a reboot or a "Phase 1" for a new saga. Which then explain the result of Phase 4, its a new beginning, a new saga, people aren't invested yet because its just starting out, like Phase 1 did in the beginning. At the end of one saga and the beginning of the next I expect to have this sort of ebb and flow of the audience coming in and out of the MCU. If by the end of Phase 6 things aren't pumping on all cylinders again then I might agree we have a problem.

Also I can imagine a world where the MCU isn't great, just look at DC for what that world would look like, I just don't think we're close to that yet with the MCU.

Anyways back to Secret Invasion.....

 

[MrPromey]

It made sense story wise why things ended for those 3 characters the way they did, End Game was a natural end to that saga and the arcs for those characters.

As for a "reboot", I sort of agree it is like a reboot or a "Phase 1" for a new saga. Which then explain the result of Phase 4, its a new beginning, a new saga, people aren't invested yet because its just starting out, like Phase 1 did in the beginning. At the end of one saga and the beginning of the next I expect to have this sort of ebb and flow of the audience coming in and out of the MCU. If by the end of Phase 6 things aren't pumping on all cylinders again then I might agree we have a problem.

Also I can imagine a world where the MCU isn't great, just look at DC for what that world would look like, I just don't think we're close to that yet with the MCU.

Anyways back to Secret Invasion.....

I seem to recall people going ape-$hit over the first Iron Man movie. And Captain America being pretty well received. People didn't need that much investment to jump on board first time around.

Not seeing that so far this time with things like Eternals and the weird fan baggage The Marvels seems to be having to deal with. (I have home that one won't suck, though)

But yes, you make a valid point, MCU: Into the Snyderverse would defnietly be a worse reality for us all.

So back to Secret invastion, I'm still going to miss Robin.

 

[Disney Irish]

I seem to recall people going ape-$hit over the first Iron Man movie. And Captain America being pretty well received.

They made $585M and $370M respectively, both made a profit sure but certainly not blowing the doors off the box office.

The standalone films have always been pretty hit or miss in terms of box office. Its only been the assemble films that really have raked in the cash, but those can't be the only stories you tell as it would get boring and not have the same gravitas. Got to build up to the stakes of a Avengers level event in order to have a new assemble film.

 

[Tha Realest]

Yikes.

Secret Invasion Suffers Low Viewership Vs. Other MCU Disney+ Shows

Samuel L. Jackson's new Marvel series is off to a slow start, not gathering the same attention as many other MCU shows.

thedirect.com

 

[Phroobar]

Yikes.

Secret Invasion Suffers Low Viewership Vs. Other MCU Disney+ Shows

Samuel L. Jackson's new Marvel series is off to a slow start, not gathering the same attention as many other MCU shows.

thedirect.com

It just isn't very good.

 

[doctornick]

Yikes.

Secret Invasion Suffers Low Viewership Vs. Other MCU Disney+ Shows

Samuel L. Jackson's new Marvel series is off to a slow start, not gathering the same attention as many other MCU shows.

thedirect.com

If they are going to use the release pattern of one episode a week, they need to make each episode more interesting and standalone. D+ series are spending too much earlier episodes trying to set up things (sometimes with a subpar payoff) as opposed to just make them good individually.

Anyway, this has been fine but not really all that great. Reminds me of Andor but not even as good (and I'm not really all that high on Andor either). Though to be fair, the entire political intrigue kind of plot isn't really my cup of tea

 

[Disney Irish]

Yikes.

Secret Invasion Suffers Low Viewership Vs. Other MCU Disney+ Shows

Samuel L. Jackson's new Marvel series is off to a slow start, not gathering the same attention as many other MCU shows.

thedirect.com

We'll see what the actual Nielsen numbers are in about a month, these series tend to do better viewership wise as the episodes progress.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

If they are going to use the release pattern of one episode a week, they need to make each episode more interesting and standalone. D+ series are spending too much earlier episodes trying to set up things (sometimes with a subpar payoff) as opposed to just make them good individually.

Anyway, this has been fine but not really all that great. Reminds me of Andor but not even as good (and I'm not really all that high on Andor either). Though to be fair, the entire political intrigue kind of plot isn't really my cup of tea

Andor worked because of the context. We know that in Star Wars there's political intrigue happening behind the scenes of all the action.

This might play better if the aliens were connected to a larger story. So far they're just quietly hiding in plain sight because they have no other home. Will see how it plays out but it lacks that hook of how do they connect to a broader story?

 

[MrPromey]

It just isn't very good.

It feels like a hard turn for MCU type stuff.

I'm not seeing anything offensively bad in these first two episodes (except for how they did Aunt Robin dirty) but it feels like they're trying to push a more mature story-driven idea in a franchise that was built on big action sequences and effects.

People sitting or standing around talking is a lot cheaper to produce than watching them span a multiverse, fight gods and monsters, create their own sitcom dream lands, etc. but this is quite the swerve for Marvel content.

I mean, the big reveal at the end of the second episode was about a personal relationship for Fury.

That's somethin' but I'm not sure it's somethin' that interests half their MCU audience.

In a totally standalone show or a show about spies and shape shifting aliens as its own new thing in no way connected to MCU, maybe on a different streamer, the concept for this and how it was made would, I think, have had an easier time finding an audience than it's going to as part of a Marvel story at a point when audiences seem less drawn in by the content Marvel has been putting out, recently.