Scooters and Buses and Waiting, Oh My!

the-reason14

Well-Known Member
I can undestand why its hard for people to stand in line for a bus after a long day at a disney park and see other people get on a bus before you. Like some here have said, I think its best for people to be more understanding. It doesnt personally bother me when handicap guests are loaded on the bus before me, even if they have a large party. I can see why it would bother others though, but personally it doesnt bother me. Honestly as long as I get a seat, Im cool. And for the most part, where I'm at in line, it doesnt matter how many people are loaded in, I still manage to get a seat and so Im ok. But I think its easier for them to load them up first, and while it may "inconvenience" some people its for the better.
 

GrannyJill2

New Member
Original Poster
But isn't this what they do now? The bus pulls up, they load the scooters and their guests, then the remaining seats are filled with guests that are waiting in line. Disney often sends more than one bus to a stop when needed, I've seen numerous All-Star buses loading at the same time at park closing.

You are right that Disney often sends multiple buses, but the "rush hours" to and from the parks require that they send them more often than every 20 minutes. I think it's a matter of tweaking the bus schedules during the peak periods. I'm sure that the tension between chair-riders and walkers could be lessened with just a little work :).
 

ClemsonTigger

Naturally Grumpy
This topic is not about who deserves to be riding in chairs, or what ailments they have. It's about a situation that Disney needs to address. If guests are happy, they stay longer, spend more money, and return more quickly. It's in Disney's best interest to solve the "who's on first" problem.

I do want to congratulate everyone for keeping cool about this "hot" topic :)

But isn't this what they do now? The bus pulls up, they load the scooters and their guests, then the remaining seats are filled with guests that are waiting in line.

Exactly...it's not a question of who's on first...protocol is clear...it's that people don't like the solution.

Disney often sends more than one bus to a stop when needed, I've seen numerous All-Star buses loading at the same time at park closing.

I'm sure that the tension between chair-riders and walkers could be lessened with just a little work :).

I applaud your optimism...but as long as Disney is such an accomodating environment, and the number of assist vehicles remains the same...I don't see this changing.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
I never seem to be able to avoid these threads.

Disney has been in the business of transportation for a very long time. Don't you think they've considered all the options, weighed all the pros and cons and examined the cost versus efficiency of all of the factors? There are legal minimum standards that have to be met and then there are shareholders who don't want unrealistic expenditures on extra buses or special accommodations.

The facts are:


  • Allowing scooters to load while the bus is empty is the safest and most time-efficient approach.
  • Providing and coordinating handicap-only transportation is an extremely expensive option that would require significantly more staff.
  • Allowing groups to remain together is the most humane approach [How does the driver decide who stays or who rides with the scooter? Does he tell the mother of four to leave her children behind while she rides with and tends to her disabled husband or have her stay with the other children while one of them who may not be able to tend to the father's needs rides with him? How long are you prepared to wait while this decision-making takes place?]. It is to complicated a situation to realistically set specific guidelines for other than to simply allow groups to remain together.
  • Many disabilities are "invisible" - without psychic powers combined with a medical degree no-one should determine for themselves based on outward appearances who is or isn't disabled. To do so is arrogant and narrow-minded IMO.
TABs [Temporarily Able Bodied] should have the grace to recognize that in the blink of an eye, that could be their fate forever...

I'm a perfect example. I was a very fit, active member of the Canadian military. Now, I have only two toes left my feet and a full-thickness skin graft over the full extent of one heel. I can walk, usually with a barely-perceptible limp, thanks to specially-crafted insoles. But in the blink of an eye, the skin graft can fail and I will be very visibly crippled. A doctor has signed all of the appropriate paperwork in order that I can use handicap parking and eventually there will come a time when instead of an occasional problem which most people don't even notice my disability will become one that requires me to use an ECV, but not one of the ones they rent at Disney, because they require the use of one's hands and I don't have that either.
 

aubs42

New Member
Just my two cents.

I was in Disneyworld just before Thanksgiving. My hubby and I were standing in line after Epcot closed. We were staying at Riverside so you can imagine how many people were waiting for the bus. A lady comes up in a wheelchair and heads right to the front of the line. A castmember stoped her and told her that one of her party needed to wait in line and they would be loaded as soon as they were close to the front. The lady then proceded to throw a big fit about how she needs to be loaded right now and they needed to put her on the bus now. Right in front of us in line was a family with two young children. The entire time both kids were patient and waited in line even though we could tell that they were very tired. After we had waited a few minutes we noticed that there was another person in a wheelchair approaching the line. When he went to get in line a different cast member tried to motion him to the front. He very politly and nicely told them that he can wait in line until it is his time to board the bus. All these other people in line are very tired and he can wait for his turn.
I understand that there are lots of different dissablilities out there. My grandfather should be in a wheelchair but refuses because if he stops moving his legs everyday they will stop working. When ever we go anywhere with him we have to go very slow but he still waits his turn.
I think that most wheelchairs should have to wait and not get the very next bus that pulls up.
 

GrannyJill2

New Member
Original Poster
Just my two cents.

I was in Disneyworld just before Thanksgiving. My hubby and I were standing in line after Epcot closed. We were staying at Riverside so you can imagine how many people were waiting for the bus. A lady comes up in a wheelchair and heads right to the front of the line. A castmember stoped her and told her that one of her party needed to wait in line and they would be loaded as soon as they were close to the front. The lady then proceded to throw a big fit about how she needs to be loaded right now and they needed to put her on the bus now. Right in front of us in line was a family with two young children. The entire time both kids were patient and waited in line even though we could tell that they were very tired. After we had waited a few minutes we noticed that there was another person in a wheelchair approaching the line. When he went to get in line a different cast member tried to motion him to the front. He very politly and nicely told them that he can wait in line until it is his time to board the bus. All these other people in line are very tired and he can wait for his turn.
I understand that there are lots of different dissablilities out there. My grandfather should be in a wheelchair but refuses because if he stops moving his legs everyday they will stop working. When ever we go anywhere with him we have to go very slow but he still waits his turn.
I think that most wheelchairs should have to wait and not get the very next bus that pulls up.

You have hit the nail on the head, my friend. There should be a system where everyone waits their turn, and it sounds like the one castmember had a solution - ....told a lady in a wheelchair that one of her party needed to wait in line and they would be loaded as soon as they were close to the front. Although it backfired in that case, it's still a workable solution, I think. Thanks so much.
 

Monty

Brilliant...and Canadian
In the Parks
No
You have hit the nail on the head, my friend. There should be a system where everyone waits their turn, and it sounds like the one castmember had a solution - ....told a lady in a wheelchair that one of her party needed to wait in line and they would be loaded as soon as they were close to the front. Although it backfired in that case, it's still a workable solution, I think. Thanks so much.

Actually, no it's not a workable solution. Unless the wheelchair happens to arrive at the front of the line right as a bus reaches capacity, then they either have to load it with people already on the bus, which creates a safety issue or they have to have people go around the wheelchair that is now in the way and have the wheelchair wait longer for the next bus.

The CM was going against Disney policy and actually created a situation where the lady in the wheelchair was justified in raising a stink. Similarly, the gentleman who insisted on waiting his turn when asked to follow the policy was potentially creating a problem unnecessarily.

Surprising as it may seem, Disney knows what it's doing!
 

Disneybird

Member
Last year when I was at WDW with my mother (she uses a wheelchair or ECV), we left EPCOT after closing one night also. We were staying at POFQ. When we got to the buses, the line was extremely long. We voluntarily waited until 2 busses filled up and left, before getting on the bus. No big deal. The busses were running so close together that we didn't have to wait long anyway. Also everytime we got on a bus, I helped her load, but my husband and daughter got it line with everyone else.
My mother is almost 80 years old, and WDW is her favorite place in the world. She has 3 trips planned there within the next year. And in 2010, for her 80th, she wants a party at the world.
And for everyone that has a problem with seats being taken up by scooters and wheelchairs, the next time you get on a bus and you have to stand, see how many small children are sitting in their own seat. Parents, if a bus is crowded, and you can put your child on your lap, please be polite and do so, letting someone else sit. If the bus is not crowded, spread out all you want though.
 

heliumalias

Member
I think that many people can agree that scooters/ECVs can be a logistical nightmare. My high school specialized in helping educate young people with severe disabilities (so many of them used ECVs). I can't count the number of times students had to jump to the side of the slightly too narrow corridors at peak times of the day. (Wheelchairs seem to be slightly less problematic in this respect due to the user seeming to have slightly more control).
Anyway....I have yet to see any type of mixed ability transport where wheelchair dependent passengers are not boarded first and exit last (the same way that Disney buses are). I don't really see wheelchair only buses as an option for the following reasons:

1) Very rarely have I seen more than 2 wheelchair passengers trying to board a bus for the same location (exception being possibly at park closing but there are often slightly more buses then anyway).

2) Given the above the only practical way to have a wheelchair only bus would be if it visited several different resorts and parks. Now, I get annoyed at how long the buses can occasionally take to get from A to B anyway (keeping in mind that I regularly stay at DVC resorts) so if a bus had to stop at various locations all over the world I would get pretty annoyed.

3) If such buses were used the loading and unloading times would be very long at peak times.

I would imagine that bus drivers know roughly how many people they can get on the bus in terms of where the line is. So I would guess that it might be possible to involve some kind of first come first served system but this does have its impracticalities. I think the best solution at the moment is to stick with what's already in place and hope that people become more courteous. It astounds me that wherever I use buses people are reluctant to offer their seat to someone who might actually need it.

I personally would like Disney to make sure that they teach people who do hire ECVs know how to use them (I don't know whether they do this already) as well as making sure that the bus drivers know how to operate them. As an observer it seems quite obvious that ECVs are particularly difficult to get on and off the buses.

(I apologise if I have inadvertently offended anyone as this was not intended)
 

Figment632

New Member
Last year when I was at WDW with my mother (she uses a wheelchair or ECV), we left EPCOT after closing one night also. We were staying at POFQ. When we got to the buses, the line was extremely long. We voluntarily waited until 2 busses filled up and left, before getting on the bus. No big deal. The busses were running so close together that we didn't have to wait long anyway. Also everytime we got on a bus, I helped her load, but my husband and daughter got it line with everyone else.
My mother is almost 80 years old, and WDW is her favorite place in the world. She has 3 trips planned there within the next year. And in 2010, for her 80th, she wants a party at the world.
And for everyone that has a problem with seats being taken up by scooters and wheelchairs, the next time you get on a bus and you have to stand, see how many small children are sitting in their own seat. Parents, if a bus is crowded, and you can put your child on your lap, please be polite and do so, letting someone else sit. If the bus is not crowded, spread out all you want though.

Good point small children do not need there own seat. Another thing that drives me crazy is when the bus is crowded and there is a woman standing and a man doesnt offer his seat. I may be old fashion but I always give my seat up in that situation.
 

rdour@techminds

New Member
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the busses where I live here in Chicago. They pick up citizens with wheelchairs and ECVs usually within about 1 minute or less. The bus bends down, a flap flips up and out the front door creating a ramp, they roll on in. The bus driver then asks two people to vacate the third second and third seat right behind the driver. That's because the thing lifts up and folds, and hooks are exposed on the back of the folded up chair bottoms and the metal floor planks underneath them. They hook the hooks around sturdy parts of the chair or ECV, ask the person using it to put it in a locked state with brakes applied, and that's it. This all happens in under a minute. I see it happen at least twice a week on my part time commute through the city for a job not near my home location. If there are multiple people waiting for a bus, they've got another one of these setups right across the isle. If more than two are waiting, oh well, you get to wait for the next bus. The hooks are simple, very tough, and crank lock in place so the cables they are attached to don't unravel. This all happens on a crowded city bus. Two people are asked to move, that's it. Since we're all so used to crowded busses here in the city, we just get up, no big deal. Little to no irritation caused.

Disney's system is a bit different, and is designed to offer the safest journey to everyone. However, sometimes it takes quite a while to load up passengers because people are asked to transfer out of vehicles sometimes. That's potentially more difficult than the physical loading of the vehicle itself.

One other thing, nobody mentions that the "last" people to get off the bus are the people who needed to be loaded first. They also may be stuck for an additional 5 minutes to transfer back into their vehicle if that's what happened. Sometimes this even requires a two man lift if the person is incapable of assisting in the process. Though I must admit, anyone that needs a two man lift is likely in a wheelchair, electric wheelchair, and not an ECV.

Disney does play it safe to be sure, but remember, not every bus driver comes from the same mold either. I saw a driver load two ECVs with transfers in seriously two minutes one morning at Pop. I had boarded the bus already, as the bus driver had been at the bus holding point when I asked him which bus he was, and he was waiting to be a Magic Kingdom bus. He asked me if that's where I was going, and it was. So, I was asked to board, why not? I'd have to find the stop otherwise, and I'd run into him a few minutes later asking the same question again. When he pulled up and started loading those ECVs, I was amazed at the speed and efficiency. He just had it down perfect. But, the people using the ECVs were also very with it, and added to the efficiency. This guy was also not taking his time, I could hear hurried steps as he entered the bus, loaded, went out, loaded again, and finally closed up the ramp and let everyone else in. Some people who drive also may be in a position where performing the loads may be physically challenging. If you're a retired Florida resident driving a bus, you're probably not going to be super fast at this sort of thing, but with good reason.

Does Disney ever operate double length busses with the accordian partitions? In Chicago, we've got busses that are double length and can bend in the middle. This is great for busses headed down to Wrigley Field or the museum campus. If they don't have them, DIsney needs to get a few to use for end of day crowds.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
You could ease the problem with one of these.


p6070055.jpg
Reduces travelling time too.
 

GrannyJill2

New Member
Original Poster
Another interesting idea from rdour@techminds. One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the busses where I live here in Chicago. They pick up citizens with wheelchairs and ECVs usually within about 1 minute or less. The bus bends down, a flap flips up and out the front door creating a ramp, they roll on in. If there are multiple people waiting for a bus, they've got another one of these setups right across the isle. If more than two are waiting, oh well, you get to wait for the next bus. Since we're all so used to crowded busses here in the city, we just get up, no big deal. Little to no irritation caused.

Does Disney ever operate double length busses with the accordian partitions? In Chicago, we've got busses that are double length and can bend in the middle. This is great for busses headed down to Wrigley Field or the museum campus. If they don't have them, DIsney needs to get a few to use for end of day crowds.


I don't know everything there is to know about the logistics of transporting people with special needs, so these suggestions are very informative.

We're agreed that small children do not need their own seat most of the time; that castmembers need to be on the same page with their instructions to bus riders; that people in chairs need to be loaded first; that people waiting in line need to be patient; and that Disney should spend more time thinking about how to improve this situation.

I think we're done here. Thanks so much for the dialogue. I enjoy picking your very diverse brains. :)
 

TURKEY

New Member
One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the busses where I live here in Chicago. They pick up citizens with wheelchairs and ECVs usually within about 1 minute or less. The bus bends down, a flap flips up and out the front door creating a ramp, they roll on in. The bus driver then asks two people to vacate the third second and third seat right behind the driver. That's because the thing lifts up and folds, and hooks are exposed on the back of the folded up chair bottoms and the metal floor planks underneath them. They hook the hooks around sturdy parts of the chair or ECV, ask the person using it to put it in a locked state with brakes applied, and that's it. This all happens in under a minute. I see it happen at least twice a week on my part time commute through the city for a job not near my home location. If there are multiple people waiting for a bus, they've got another one of these setups right across the isle. If more than two are waiting, oh well, you get to wait for the next bus. The hooks are simple, very tough, and crank lock in place so the cables they are attached to don't unravel. This all happens on a crowded city bus. Two people are asked to move, that's it. Since we're all so used to crowded busses here in the city, we just get up, no big deal. Little to no irritation caused.

Disney's system is a bit different, and is designed to offer the safest journey to everyone. However, sometimes it takes quite a while to load up passengers because people are asked to transfer out of vehicles sometimes. That's potentially more difficult than the physical loading of the vehicle itself.

One other thing, nobody mentions that the "last" people to get off the bus are the people who needed to be loaded first. They also may be stuck for an additional 5 minutes to transfer back into their vehicle if that's what happened. Sometimes this even requires a two man lift if the person is incapable of assisting in the process. Though I must admit, anyone that needs a two man lift is likely in a wheelchair, electric wheelchair, and not an ECV.

Disney does play it safe to be sure, but remember, not every bus driver comes from the same mold either. I saw a driver load two ECVs with transfers in seriously two minutes one morning at Pop. I had boarded the bus already, as the bus driver had been at the bus holding point when I asked him which bus he was, and he was waiting to be a Magic Kingdom bus. He asked me if that's where I was going, and it was. So, I was asked to board, why not? I'd have to find the stop otherwise, and I'd run into him a few minutes later asking the same question again. When he pulled up and started loading those ECVs, I was amazed at the speed and efficiency. He just had it down perfect. But, the people using the ECVs were also very with it, and added to the efficiency. This guy was also not taking his time, I could hear hurried steps as he entered the bus, loaded, went out, loaded again, and finally closed up the ramp and let everyone else in. Some people who drive also may be in a position where performing the loads may be physically challenging. If you're a retired Florida resident driving a bus, you're probably not going to be super fast at this sort of thing, but with good reason.

Does Disney ever operate double length busses with the accordian partitions? In Chicago, we've got busses that are double length and can bend in the middle. This is great for busses headed down to Wrigley Field or the museum campus. If they don't have them, DIsney needs to get a few to use for end of day crowds.


First, Disney doesn't have the accordion buses. Not sure they would ever want them as it may create too many liability issues.



This leads to the next part of being much more secure in what Disney does with wheelchairs and ECVs. Many people using these devices may be using them for the 1st time ever, and if not then the first time while on vacation, not loading into their passenger vehicles, but instead on a bus or monorail or boat.

For the most part, those using mass transit in cities aren't going to be tourists, but locals that are used to the buses and how everything works.
 

waltsbiggestfan

New Member
The only thing that gets me in nov. during our last trip 3 adults a 2 year and a 8 year old. The bus was almost full when the chair pulled up it was loaded with no problem and locked down heres the problem this person had atleast 6 with them and we were asked to move by the driver so they could all sit.Just think about this for a min. my mom 61 yrs ''sorry mom'' holding a sleep 2 yr old being asked to move so this party of maybe 15 to 28 year olds could sit...
 

eneric

New Member
This is certainly one thing about my vacation that I try so very very hard to ignore. But it's SO HARD to ignore the ones who appear to be nothing more than fat and lazy and not old and disable. I know I know, it's not up to us to judge who might be and might not be legitimately handicapped and just because someone is over weight doesn't mean they're not trying their best. I get it, some people can't help the way they are but at the same time there are SO many that can. Anyone who is clearly elderly and frail has every right to be on the scooters and I'll give up my space in line and seat on the bus all day long for. Each year too there is always one or two people who clearly aren't disable but rather just don't want to walk all day long. Some of these people get impatient, mad and demanding if they feel they're not going to board first. I fear there is really nothing that can ever be done about this to rid of it permanently. Help me please help me to find a way to ignore this.
 

DisneyJoe

Well-Known Member
This is certainly one thing about my vacation that I try so very very hard to ignore. But it's SO HARD to ignore the ones who appear to be nothing more than fat and lazy and not old and disable. I know I know, it's not up to us to judge who might be and might not be legitimately handicapped and just because someone is over weight doesn't mean they're not trying their best. I get it, some people can't help the way they are but at the same time there are SO many that can. Anyone who is clearly elderly and frail has every right to be on the scooters and I'll give up my space in line and seat on the bus all day long for. Each year too there is always one or two people who clearly aren't disable but rather just don't want to walk all day long. Some of these people get impatient, mad and demanding if they feel they're not going to board first. I fear there is really nothing that can ever be done about this to rid of it permanently. Help me please help me to find a way to ignore this.
I know people with prosthetic legs who use an ECV at the parks, or replacement knees, or heart conditions, or issues with their backs, and you couldn't tell by looking at them, and you may think they are riding one because they don't want to walk all day - and you'd be right - but what you don't see is the issues that they would have if they didn't use the ECV.

Aren't there plenty of other non-ECV people at WDW that are impatient, mad and demanding?

Can't we all just get along?
 

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