Scooter accident

[rob0519]

I really hope you need to use one someday. Karma.

I won't stoop so low as to wish something horrible on you and your family. If you believe in karma you've already brought that upon yourself. And by the way, we do have an adult disabled son that needs to be pushed around in a wheel chair, so you're a psychic because your karma hit my family 43 years ago. Thanks a lot.

 

[jloucks]

This I have to respond to..

1) The ECV is NOT a) heavy, or b) a motor vehicle...my Chevy Suburban is a motor vehicle. The ECV that I own weighs about 100 lbs...I know because everytime we fly with it, the airline has to weigh it.

2) The average person walkes between 5 & 7 M.P.H....The normal ECV (with a full charge/ at full speed goes ABOUT the same...between 7-10 MPH at FULL speed. They don't travel TWICE the speed of a walking pedestrian.

3) Lets suppose I'm waiting in line for a ride and you cut in front of me...I say something, and you insult me or a member of my family...I give you a little "love tap" for your mouth...Is that Disney's fault? Are they negligent because you're rude and I defended my family? NO, the situation is between you and me. If you wanted to call security and the police, that's on you, and you would have every right to do so. Disney is responsible for making the park as safe AND accessible to ALL guests, regardless of the physical disability.
WDW would have every right to take whatever action against me, including removal from the park over the altercation we had...I would hope they WOULD do so. f.y.i., I would NEVER stoop to your level and respond with such an action...I would call security and allow them, with all the other bystanders affirm your rudeness, and let them make the call.

4) Under the A.D.A., thats the Americans With Disabilities Act, EVERY business in the US MUST make EQUAL accomodations for EVERY person, reguardless of their infirmity. If you want every ECV to go 1 mph, then EVERY guest walking should ALSO follow that same speed limit. I can't wait for the team of CM's on Main Street with radar guns, pointing with 2 fingers to the guests walking 6 mph because they have to make it to their reservations at Crystal Palace "Excuse me, you must walk slower or we will have to eject you from the park...now have a magical day!"

5) I do NOT, will NOT and WON'T expect my wife or my 2 teenage daughters to push me around in a wheelchair, nor would I expect any of the other MILLIONS of disabled guests per year to do the same. And what happens when a person pushing a wheelchair accidentally bumps you when you stop short...I guess YOUR next step would be to ban all wheelchairs too...If you can't walk, you are not allowed to ented the property...My aren't WE a little pompous...

Lastly, according to YOUR logic, ECV lanes should be installed in the parks...what happens when a walker darts out into the ECV lane, and there is an accident...I guess that pedestrian should be removed or punished as well...I guess that would be ONE way to empty the parks...you should send that suggestion into WDW corporate...I'm sure they would LOVE your idea of emptying the parks and alienating guests...

This I have to respond to..

1) The ECV is NOT a) heavy, or b) a motor vehicle...my Chevy Suburban is a motor vehicle. The ECV that I own weighs about 100 lbs...I know because everytime we fly with it, the airline has to weigh it.

2) The average person walkes between 5 & 7 M.P.H....The normal ECV (with a full charge/ at full speed goes ABOUT the same...between 7-10 MPH at FULL speed. They don't travel TWICE the speed of a walking pedestrian.

3) Lets suppose I'm waiting in line for a ride and you cut in front of me...I say something, and you insult me or a member of my family...I give you a little "love tap" for your mouth...Is that Disney's fault? Are they negligent because you're rude and I defended my family? NO, the situation is between you and me. If you wanted to call security and the police, that's on you, and you would have every right to do so. Disney is responsible for making the park as safe AND accessible to ALL guests, regardless of the physical disability.
WDW would have every right to take whatever action against me, including removal from the park over the altercation we had...I would hope they WOULD do so. f.y.i., I would NEVER stoop to your level and respond with such an action...I would call security and allow them, with all the other bystanders affirm your rudeness, and let them make the call.

4) Under the A.D.A., thats the Americans With Disabilities Act, EVERY business in the US MUST make EQUAL accomodations for EVERY person, reguardless of their infirmity. If you want every ECV to go 1 mph, then EVERY guest walking should ALSO follow that same speed limit. I can't wait for the team of CM's on Main Street with radar guns, pointing with 2 fingers to the guests walking 6 mph because they have to make it to their reservations at Crystal Palace "Excuse me, you must walk slower or we will have to eject you from the park...now have a magical day!"

5) I do NOT, will NOT and WON'T expect my wife or my 2 teenage daughters to push me around in a wheelchair, nor would I expect any of the other MILLIONS of disabled guests per year to do the same. And what happens when a person pushing a wheelchair accidentally bumps you when you stop short...I guess YOUR next step would be to ban all wheelchairs too...If you can't walk, you are not allowed to ented the property...My aren't WE a little pompous...

Lastly, according to YOUR logic, ECV lanes should be installed in the parks...what happens when a walker darts out into the ECV lane, and there is an accident...I guess that pedestrian should be removed or punished as well...I guess that would be ONE way to empty the parks...you should send that suggestion into WDW corporate...I'm sure they would LOVE your idea of emptying the parks and alienating guests...

1) it is a vehicle and it has a motor. Add a 100-400 pound person and it weighs even more. Impact a leg at 5 mph in a 3 inch surface area and that is a very serious situation.

2) average walking speed 3.1 mph. Google it.

3) the case against WDW would be was their adequate security or not. If youre love tapping me out in public I could argue no, there is not enough security. The more love tapping that goes on, the stronger my case.

4) The same rules would apply to everyone on motor vehicles.

5) wheelchair is not a motor vehicle. Pompous? You see the irony there right?

6) correct, if there were dedicated lanes, liability would be shifted.

Look, I am not arguing to ban motor vehicles on sidewalks. I am debating safety and liability with the current system. They are not safe, and there is liability for the driver. Safe and logical action should be taken, not banning. That is all.

 

[thomas998]

Because just like you don't need proof of handicap when you use an ECV at your local supermarket, Wal-Mart, etc., you don't need proof at Disney...If they required it, (but again, it's against the law to ask), I personally would have NO problem giving them that information, but they can't. Besides, where does Disney give you a handicapped tag?

The DMV requires it because you are operating a motor vehicle.

Nope... you are confusing what the ADA says with what you want it to say or have heard that it says. I think in another thread you stated that you couldn't inquire about someones disability because of the ADA. The getting in trouble for inquiring about a disability is when it happen when someone with a disability is seeking employment. Other theme parks actually require a doctor's note to prove disability in some instances, Six Flag Great America requires that documentation just to get a special pass to avoid waiting in lines so having Disney require it for scooters wouldn't be illegal it might upset some people that are just too lazy to walk and want to fly through the park without walking and would have no ability to show that they actually needed the scooter (because they didn't need it in the first place).

 

[DisneyJoe]

I won't stoop so low as to wish something horrible on you and your family. If you believe in karma you've already brought that upon yourself. And by the way, we do have an adult disabled son that needs to be pushed around in a wheel chair, so your a psychic because your karma hit my family 43 years ago. Thanks a lot.

Sorry, got my ire up, I am a congenital bi-lateral amputee with prosthetic legs and never really TRULY enjoyed the parks until I used a scooter. It gave me personal freedom and removed the many blisters from my hands from my crutches and sores on my back from my prosthetics.

I wasn't wishing you anything horrible, I just wish all of these so called experts would spend a few days in a scooter in the crowds before attempting to "fix" things.

 

[rob0519]

Sorry, got my ire up, I am a congenital bi-lateral amputee with prosthetic legs and never really TRULY enjoyed the parks until I used a scooter.

I wasn't wishing you anything horrible, I just wish all of these so called experts would spend a few days in a scooter in the crowds before attempting to "fix" things.

I was being sarcastic, which as I said in previous response does not come across in text. I need to keep reminding myself about that.
I'm not an expert, not in favor of banning anything that makes a person's access to a normal life as easy as possible. A scooter is not all that much different than a motorized wheel chair, which I wish my son had the ability to control.

Note to self: Do not attempt sarcasm on a hot button topic.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

Lots here, but this one stood out: if someone insults you or your family and you punch them, you are NOT defending your family. Defending their honor perhaps, but since there was no actual violence prior to you, your preemptive battery would not be defensive in nature. You would be in the wrong.

By itself you are probably right, though, Disney is likely not responsible for your reprehensible actions. If however there are repeated incidents such as you aggressively punching someone and Disney is aware that this is taking place frequently yet does nothing to type to prevent future occurrences like adding security or cameras, etc, they might in fact be liable. Let's imagine there are frequent muggings in the parking lot and they do nothing. A reasonable jury could agree that they were expected to make the parking lots safe.

Thats what I said...I WOULD be in the wrong...NOT Disney...The point I was trying to make was that just because you were allowed to enter, Disney can't possibly be responsible for every guests actions...This is yet another example of the entitled, blame someone else mentality that permiates our society...guest 1 is an idiot...me, as guest 2 and quite possibly a felon, is a bigger idiot. so guest 1 should hold Disney responsible?
My point was just that...Disney can't be held responsible for individual's actions...If it was called to their attention, and DIDN'T do anything to remove the assailant, then by ALL means WDW should be partially responsible if another altercation happened in the park. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WOULD RESPOND THAT WAY, I was just trying to make a point...I guess people don't understand NJ sarcasam...not that we're all cave people...LOL

 

[DisneyJoe]

I was being sarcastic, which as I said in previous response does not come across in text. I need to keep reminding myself about that.
I'm not an expert, not in favor of banning anything that makes a person's access to a normal life as easy as possible. A scooter is not all that much different than a motorized wheel chair, which I wish my son had the ability to control.

Note to self: Do not attempt sarcasm on a hot button topic.

Maybe use <sarcasm> tags?

 

[jloucks]

Thats what I said...I WOULD be in the wrong...NOT Disney...The point I was trying to make was that just because you were allowed to enter, Disney can't possibly be responsible for every guests actions...This is yet another example of the entitled, blame someone else mentality that permiates our society...guest 1 is an idiot...me, as guest 2 and quite possibly a felon, is a bigger idiot. so guest 1 should hold Disney responsible?
My point was just that...Disney can't be held responsible for individual's actions...If it was called to their attention, and DIDN'T do anything to remove the assailant, then by ALL means WDW should be partially responsible if another altercation happened in the park. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WOULD RESPOND THAT WAY, I was just trying to make a point...I guess people don't understand NJ sarcasam...not that we're all cave people...LOL

You're trying to make this way more black and white than it is. A venue has a safety responsibility to the visitors. It has been proven time and time again. If it is reasonable to assume that security will be present and none are, then there is liability. 'Reasonable' is a very wishy-washy term, but it is all over legal verbiage!

Why do you think there is ANY security at WDW, football games, or the airport?
Do you think it is out of concern for people's safety or fear of liability?
Remember what motivates corporations.

 

[BrianV]

Thats what I said...I WOULD be in the wrong...NOT Disney...The point I was trying to make was that just because you were allowed to enter, Disney can't possibly be responsible for every guests actions...This is yet another example of the entitled, blame someone else mentality that permiates our society...guest 1 is an idiot...me, as guest 2 and quite possibly a felon, is a bigger idiot. so guest 1 should hold Disney responsible?
My point was just that...Disney can't be held responsible for individual's actions...If it was called to their attention, and DIDN'T do anything to remove the assailant, then by ALL means WDW should be partially responsible if another altercation happened in the park. I'M NOT SAYING THAT I WOULD RESPOND THAT WAY, I was just trying to make a point...I guess people don't understand NJ sarcasam...not that we're all cave people...LOL

I totally get what you were saying and agree you not disney would be responsible. No confusion here. We agree. Where we disagree is if disney is aware of an ongoing problem and doesn't try to correct it, then they actually do share responsibility.

Imagine 1-2 serious scooter accidents a year. Luck of the draw. nothing to see here. Now let's imaging there are 4-5 serious scooter accidents a week. Yet they keep having everything run business as usual. Then disney could well be help liable for failing to maintain a safe environment for people.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

I totally get what you were saying and agree you not disney would be responsible. No confusion here. We agree. Where we disagree is if disney is aware of an ongoing problem and doesn't try to correct it, then they actually do share responsibility.

Imagine 1-2 serious scooter accidents a year. Luck of the draw. nothing to see here. Now let's imaging there are 4-5 serious scooter accidents a week. Yet they keep having everything run business as usual. Then disney could well be help liable for failing to maintain a safe environment for people.

I ABSOLUTELY agree!!

 

[Smiley/OCD]

1) it is a vehicle and it has a motor. Add a 100-400 pound person and it weighs even more. Impact a leg at 5 mph in a 3 inch surface area and that is a very serious situation.

2) average walking speed 3.1 mph. Google it.

3) the case against WDW would be was their adequate security or not. If youre love tapping me out in public I could argue no, there is not enough security. The more love tapping that goes on, the stronger my case.

4) The same rules would apply to everyone on motor vehicles.

5) wheelchair is not a motor vehicle. Pompous? You see the irony there right?

6) correct, if there were dedicated lanes, liability would be shifted.

Look, I am not arguing to ban motor vehicles on sidewalks. I am debating safety and liability with the current system. They are not safe, and there is liability for the driver. Safe and logical action should be taken, not banning. That is all.

Gotcha...I'm 6'3'....before I was disabled, I was able to walk, and did over 5 mph...my family was CONSTANTLY yelling at me to slow down...Look, I didn't mean to open a can of worms with this...I just feel that those of us that are disabled are entitled to the same rights as healthy individuals...There's plenty of knuckleheads, both walking and riding... Lets just agree to disagree on this subject....I don't wish any ill will towards you or your family...just allow me to have a good time at WDW

 

[ninjaprincesst]

Just ban the scooters. Period. If you can't wheel yourself around in a wheel chair or have someone push you around you can't enter the parks. It can be done under the guise of Risk Management and Liability. Honestly, it's such a small percentage of guests it wouldn't even be a blip on the bottom line even if all the people who drive scooters stopped coming.

So according to you only able bodied people should be able to come to Disney World unless their family wants the grueling task of pushing them around all day in a wheel chair. It must be nice that you or none of your family is disabled. You know my Dad would gladly give up the stupid scooter to have his leg back. And by the way the law is on the disabled peoples side.

 

[morningstar]

The average person walkes between 5 & 7 M.P.H....The normal ECV (with a full charge/ at full speed goes ABOUT the same...between 7-10 MPH at FULL speed. They don't travel TWICE the speed of a walking pedestrian.

I think 4 mph is actual quite a fast walking speed. Also, it's about stopping distance. Most people can stop "on a dime" at a walking pace, that is, at or before their next step. Scooter drivers seem to have some difficulty doing this. It's also about impact. People are reporting minor injuries. Running into someone at a walk usually doesn't cause injuries, but I can understand why a hard heavy object running into your ankle would hurt.

4) Under the A.D.A., thats the Americans With Disabilities Act, EVERY business in the US MUST make EQUAL accomodations for EVERY person, reguardless of their infirmity. If you want every ECV to go 1 mph, then EVERY guest walking should ALSO follow that same speed limit. I can't wait for the team of CM's on Main Street with radar guns, pointing with 2 fingers to the guests walking 6 mph because they have to make it to their reservations at Crystal Palace "Excuse me, you must walk slower or we will have to eject you from the park...now have a magical day!"

I'm pretty sure ADA doesn't require inconveniencing non-disabled people to make things equally difficult. If it did, they would have to close off the stairs.

 

[thomas998]

Gotcha...I'm 6'3'....before I was disabled, I was able to walk, and did over 5 mph...my family was CONSTANTLY yelling at me to slow down...Look, I didn't mean to open a can of worms with this...I just feel that those of us that are disabled are entitled to the same rights as healthy individuals...There's plenty of knuckleheads, both walking and riding... Lets just agree to disagree on this subject....I don't wish any ill will towards you or your family...just allow me to have a good time at WDW

You didn't "gotcha" anyone but yourself on that one. He didn't say everyone walks 3.1 mph... he said "average 3.1 mph"... So the fact that you walk 5 mph means nothing other than you walk faster than average, you'll also find some people walk slower than 3.1 mph... So I gotcha for not reading carefully.

 

[Smiley/OCD]

You didn't "gotcha" anyone but yourself on that one. He didn't say everyone walks 3.1 mph... he said "average 3.1 mph"... So the fact that you walk 5 mph means nothing other than you walk faster than average, you'll also find some people walk slower than 3.1 mph... So I gotcha for not reading carefully.

When I said "gotcha", I didn't mean that I had the responder, I meant that I understood the meaning and opinion of the post...the "gotcha" meant that I read it and understood the point of view, and YES, I read it...it's a dead horse...everyone is entitled to their opinions...we will all just agree to disagree and leave it at that.

 

[BrianV]

You didn't "gotcha" anyone but yourself on that one. He didn't say everyone walks 3.1 mph... he said "average 3.1 mph"... So the fact that you walk 5 mph means nothing other than you walk faster than average, you'll also find some people walk slower than 3.1 mph... So I gotcha for not reading carefully.

Gotcha means, at least around here where I live, "I understand what you are saying!"

 

[BigRedDad]

Scooters are motorized vehicles that should require liability insurance. A lady almost knocked me over with my DD on my shoulders. Once I got my balance, I chased her down, yelled at her, and the old granny was so crotchety, I just took the key to the scooter and ran off with it. Dropped it off in England and said I found it on the ground.

But yes, Disney has no liability because it is from another guest. This is why all scooter rentals should require $100,000 in liability insurance. Even a small accident can cause severe damage.

 

[rob0519]

So according to you only able bodied people should be able to come to Disney World unless their family wants the grueling task of pushing them around all day in a wheel chair. It must be nice that you or none of your family is disabled. You know my Dad would gladly give up the stupid scooter to have his leg back. And by the way the law is on the disabled peoples side.

Ok, let's try this again. You obviously reacted and did not read any of my following posts. It was a SARCASTIC response. On these boards some people want selfie sticks banned (they are), others want alcohol banned, others want smoking banned.

From yesterday: It was actually a sarcastic response which doesn't really come across well in text. That being said, there's nothing to say you can't push your wife around in a wheel chair for an hour either. My family and I take turns pushing our 40 year old disabled son around the parks for multiple hours at a time. and yes, we have the same problem with people stopping dead in their tracks and darting out in front of us.

rob0519, Yesterday at 4:36 PM Edit Delete Report
#167 + Quote Reply

I'm sorry about your Dad, but at least he can drive a scooter and lead an almost normal life. Our son is brain damaged and has little to no fine motor control or even the ability to understand how one works. So yes, my family has the grueling task of pushing a 180 lb. 43 year old man up and down the ramps all week (think Soarin and Space Mountain in particular) because WDW is the place that gives hime the most enjoyment. By the way, I've been fighting for the rights of the mentally disabled to get appropriate educational and living accommodations for over thirty years.

 

[rob0519]

Maybe use <sarcasm> tags?

Probably a better idea than the emoji I used. Thanks for the suggestion.

 

[rob0519]

Scooters are motorized vehicles that should require liability insurance. A lady almost knocked me over with my DD on my shoulders. Once I got my balance, I chased her down, yelled at her, and the old granny was so crotchety, I just took the key to the scooter and ran off with it. Dropped it off in England and said I found it on the ground.

But yes, Disney has no liability because it is from another guest. This is why all scooter rentals should require $100,000 in liability insurance. Even a small accident can cause severe damage.

I'm not an attorney, but if Disney rents you the scooter shouldn't there be some liability on their part that you know how to drive it properly? If you rent a car you need to produce a driver's license. It doesn't prove you're a capable driver, but it does imply you know knew how to properly operate a car for at least the road test. Additionally, let's say you try to sue the scooter driver for damages, would that come under their homeowners policy if they had one?