Scooter accident

[jloucks]

Absolutely most of the time the accidents are when a pedestrian walks into the scooter not the scooter running into them.

This is only a snippet of the truth.

Most of the time the accidents are when a pedestrian, on a pedestrian walkway, walks into the path of a motorized vehicle moving too fast to stop safely, and is struck by said vehicle.

Scooter speed on crowded walkways should be limited to 1/4 to 1/2 standard walking speed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Wow, ok...

First, yelling "watch out" does not absolve you from responsibility. No matter the disability you have, if you plow into anybody in a legal location, in any vehicle, you are liable.

Second, WDW is private property, anything happens on private property, the property owner can be liable if any negligence can be attributed to the owner.

Third, here is the negligence. Scooters are NOT wheelchairs. Scooters move way too fast for safe travel in large crowds. WDW, imho, is negligent in allowing small heavy fast motor vehicles to whip around their parks. It amazes me that this continues to be allowed. They are dangerous, period! They need speed regulators and idealy some experience to drive before setting them lose in crowds. Think of them as golf carts or little cars and you have a better picture of liability. Again, not wheelchairs.

Fourth, this should have been treated as a vehicular incident in that the police should be called and a report filed. If anyone plows into me or my family and moderate to major injuries occur, I am likely calling the police and if you try to wheel away, I'm following you with PD on the line and will explore pressing charges for leaving the scene of an accident. Attitude plays a huge roll in how this plays out. You run over my stationary (not darting around) daughter and leave her with minor to moderate injuries and are super apologetic, I'll probably blow it off. You act in any way like you are a victim, or worse belligerent, and we are going to have a situation involving the PD.

Finally, they did at least design the wheels on the scooters correctly. They are air filled and large. When one ran over my foot, it was surprisingly no huge deal. If they were hard plastic, somebody would have been sued.

That totally depends on when the "Watch out" was said. If it was 20 ft before they arrived at the location. You are correct. If it happened and was said at the time when someone steps in front of you, then it was just a reactionary verbal warning said out of hope that it would be said in time to prevent harm. Man, never have a group of people worked so hard at assuming the guilt of a person using a scooter. Hope none of you ever have to use one. You're life is going to be very depressing.

 

[Goofyernmost]

This is only a snippet of the truth.

Most of the time the accidents are when a pedestrian, on a pedestrian walkway, walks into the path of a motorized vehicle moving too fast to stop safely, and is struck by said vehicle.

Scooter speed on crowded walkways should be limited to 1/4 to 1/2 standard walking speed.

And in your mind that eliminates any responsibility of the pedestrian from making sure that they don't step out in front of a "fast" moving vehicle. What a crock!

 

[jloucks]

That totally depends on when the "Watch out" was said. If it was 20 ft before they arrived at the location. You are correct. If it happened and was said at the time when someone steps in front of you, then it was just a reactionary verbal warning said out of hope that it would be said in time to prevent harm. Man, never have a group of people worked so hard at assuming the guilt of a person using a scooter. Hope none of you never have to use one. You're life is going to be very depressing.

For me it is about common sense. Throwing heavy motor vehicles that go easily twice the speed of a pedestrian into crowded pedestrian walkways is hugely problematic. I am only assigned guilt to Disney and the drivers who injure and hurt people. Zero guilt intended to those that actually know how to drive vehicles on crowded sidewalks. (Extremely slowly). Yes, it is going to be horribly frustrating for the vehicle driver. No other way around it without vehicle only lanes.

Again, done correctly and safely, it is really gonna stink for the vehicle driver, driving 1mph all day. That's the only safe way tho.

 

[jloucks]

And in your mind that eliminates any responsibility of the pedestrian from making sure that they don't step out in front of a "fast" moving vehicle. What a crock!

The crock is your assuming right of way belongs to the vehicle. FALSE. Right of way goes to the pedestrians in a pedestrian walk way! Doesn't matter if a kid does a ninja move in front of the vehicle, the kid is on a sidewalk!!

 

[DisneyJoe]

FYI, putting some type of speed control on an ECV (more than there already is) would cause major issues, especially with many of the hilly areas, where the speed needs to be increased to make it up the hill.

 

[jloucks]

FYI, putting some type of speed control on an ECV (more than there already is) would cause major issues, especially with many of the hilly areas, where the speed needs to be increased to make it up the hill.

Actually, I don't think electric vehicle motors have transmissions, and most of the torque is a low rpms. An rpm limiter should do the trick with zero issues.

In over words, speed and rpm are directly linked, no shifting going on.

 

[danyoung56]

No matter the disability you have, if you plow into anybody in a legal location, in any vehicle, you are liable....

Slightly off topic, but what's a legal location? Conversely, what's an illegal location?

 

[DisneyJoe]

Actually, I don't think electric vehicle motors have transmissions, and most of the torque is a low rpms. An rpm limiter should do the trick with zero issues.

In over words, speed and rpm are directly linked, no shifting going on.

I understand that, I've been using ECVs for 7 years now, but if you limit my rpms, there are just some hills that I won't go up, it happens now sometimes with current scooters if the charge is a bit too low, so I turn up the speed/rpms, and I can get up the hill. If you limit that, no go.

You should spend a few days driving one in the parks.

 

[jloucks]

Slightly off topic, but what's a legal location? Conversely, what's an illegal location?

Sorry, that was obscure on my part. I was trying to refer to right of way. If your standing on the sidewalk or parked in a parking space and another vehicle plows into you, you are not at fault.

Illegal location would be like standing on a runway and having a plane land on your face. Your not supposed to be on the runway.
Now if the plane lands on a sidewalk, rules flip flop.

The tricky part is who has right of way at WDW. I contend that pedestrians have right of way all the time and vehicles must always yield. In other words, there cannot be any scenario where a vehicle hits a pedestrian where the pedestrian is at fault since in no location does the vehicle have rig of way. Doesn't matter if the pedestrian jumps in front of the vehicle.

 

[danyoung56]

So by "legal" you mean public? Makes sense now.

 

[jloucks]

I understand that, I've been using ECVs for 7 years now, but if you limit my rpms, there are just some hills that I won't go up, it happens now sometimes with current scooters if the charge is a bit too low.

You should spend a few days driving one in the parks.

you're talking throttle not rpm, but I get your point.

Under my proposal you could still increase juice to the motor to get up the hill. ... but you just couldn't speed up the hill.

 

[DuckTalesWooHoo1987]

Whether she needs it or not, the fact she was causing bodily harm to you for her own benefit, is assault just like if you were to flip her scooter with her on it.

Hey I'm from Knoxville. Are you an East Tennesseean as well?

 

[Smiley/OCD]

For me it is about common sense. Throwing heavy motor vehicles that go easily twice the speed of a pedestrian into crowded pedestrian walkways is hugely problematic. I am only assigned guilt to Disney and the drivers who injure and hurt people. Zero guilt intended to those that actually know how to drive vehicles on crowded sidewalks. (Extremely slowly). Yes, it is going to be horribly frustrating for the vehicle driver. No other way around it without vehicle only lanes.

Again, done correctly and safely, it is really gonna stink for the vehicle driver, driving 1mph all day. That's the only safe way tho.

This I have to respond to..

1) The ECV is NOT a) heavy, or b) a motor vehicle...my Chevy Suburban is a motor vehicle. The ECV that I own weighs about 100 lbs...I know because everytime we fly with it, the airline has to weigh it.

2) The average person walkes between 5 & 7 M.P.H....The normal ECV (with a full charge/ at full speed goes ABOUT the same...between 7-10 MPH at FULL speed. They don't travel TWICE the speed of a walking pedestrian.

3) Lets suppose I'm waiting in line for a ride and you cut in front of me...I say something, and you insult me or a member of my family...I give you a little "love tap" for your mouth...Is that Disney's fault? Are they negligent because you're rude and I defended my family? NO, the situation is between you and me. If you wanted to call security and the police, that's on you, and you would have every right to do so. Disney is responsible for making the park as safe AND accessible to ALL guests, regardless of the physical disability.
WDW would have every right to take whatever action against me, including removal from the park over the altercation we had...I would hope they WOULD do so. f.y.i., I would NEVER stoop to your level and respond with such an action...I would call security and allow them, with all the other bystanders affirm your rudeness, and let them make the call.

4) Under the A.D.A., thats the Americans With Disabilities Act, EVERY business in the US MUST make EQUAL accomodations for EVERY person, reguardless of their infirmity. If you want every ECV to go 1 mph, then EVERY guest walking should ALSO follow that same speed limit. I can't wait for the team of CM's on Main Street with radar guns, pointing with 2 fingers to the guests walking 6 mph because they have to make it to their reservations at Crystal Palace "Excuse me, you must walk slower or we will have to eject you from the park...now have a magical day!"

5) I do NOT, will NOT and WON'T expect my wife or my 2 teenage daughters to push me around in a wheelchair, nor would I expect any of the other MILLIONS of disabled guests per year to do the same. And what happens when a person pushing a wheelchair accidentally bumps you when you stop short...I guess YOUR next step would be to ban all wheelchairs too...If you can't walk, you are not allowed to ented the property...My aren't WE a little pompous...

Lastly, according to YOUR logic, ECV lanes should be installed in the parks...what happens when a walker darts out into the ECV lane, and there is an accident...I guess that pedestrian should be removed or punished as well...I guess that would be ONE way to empty the parks...you should send that suggestion into WDW corporate...I'm sure they would LOVE your idea of emptying the parks and alienating guests...

 

[rob0519]

Just ban the scooters. Period. If you can't wheel yourself around in a wheel chair or have someone push you around you can't enter the parks. It can be done under the guise of Risk Management and Liability. Honestly, it's such a small percentage of guests it wouldn't even be a blip on the bottom line even if all the people who drive scooters stopped coming.

 

[BrianV]

This I have to respond to..

1) The ECV is NOT a) heavy, or b) a motor vehicle...my Chevy Suburban is a motor vehicle. The ECV that I own weighs about 100 lbs...I know because everytime we fly with it, the airline has to weigh it.

2) The average person walkes between 5 & 7 M.P.H....The normal ECV (with a full charge/ at full speed goes ABOUT the same...between 7-10 MPH at FULL speed. They don't travel TWICE the speed of a walking pedestrian.

3) Lets suppose I'm waiting in line for a ride and you cut in front of me...I say something, and you insult me or a member of my family...I give you a little "love tap" for your mouth...Is that Disney's fault? Are they negligent because you're rude and I defended my family? NO, the situation is between you and me. If you wanted to call security and the police, that's on you, and you would have every right to do so. Disney is responsible for making the park as safe AND accessible to ALL guests, regardless of the physical disability.
WDW would have every right to take whatever action against me, including removal from the park over the altercation we had...I would hope they WOULD do so. f.y.i., I would NEVER stoop to your level and respond with such an action...I would call security and allow them, with all the other bystanders affirm your rudeness, and let them make the call.

4) Under the A.D.A., thats the Americans With Disabilities Act, EVERY business in the US MUST make EQUAL accomodations for EVERY person, reguardless of their infirmity. If you want every ECV to go 1 mph, then EVERY guest walking should ALSO follow that same speed limit. I can't wait for the team of CM's on Main Street with radar guns, pointing with 2 fingers to the guests walking 6 mph because they have to make it to their reservations at Crystal Palace "Excuse me, you must walk slower or we will have to eject you from the park...now have a magical day!"

5) I do NOT, will NOT and WON'T expect my wife or my 2 teenage daughters to push me around in a wheelchair, nor would I expect any of the other MILLIONS of disabled guests per year to do the same. And what happens when a person pushing a wheelchair accidentally bumps you when you stop short...I guess YOUR next step would be to ban all wheelchairs too...If you can't walk, you are not allowed to ented the property...My aren't WE a little pompous...

Lastly, according to YOUR logic, ECV lanes should be installed in the parks...what happens when a walker darts out into the ECV lane, and there is an accident...I guess that pedestrian should be removed or punished as well...I guess that would be ONE way to empty the parks...you should send that suggestion into WDW corporate...I'm sure they would LOVE your idea of emptying the parks and alienating guests...

Lots here, but this one stood out: if someone insults you or your family and you punch them, you are NOT defending your family. Defending their honor perhaps, but since there was no actual violence prior to you, your preemptive battery would not be defensive in nature. You would be in the wrong.

By itself you are probably right, though, Disney is likely not responsible for your reprehensible actions. If however there are repeated incidents such as you aggressively punching someone and Disney is aware that this is taking place frequently yet does nothing to type to prevent future occurrences like adding security or cameras, etc, they might in fact be liable. Let's imagine there are frequent muggings in the parking lot and they do nothing. A reasonable jury could agree that they were expected to make the parking lots safe.

 

[thomas998]

Actually, I don't think electric vehicle motors have transmissions, and most of the torque is a low rpms. An rpm limiter should do the trick with zero issues.

In over words, speed and rpm are directly linked, no shifting going on.

You are correct. Electric motors don't suffer the same limited power band that a gas engine deals with. Unless the electric scooter is grossly underpowered it doesn't need to get a running start for any of the hills at Disney.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Just ban the scooters. Period. If you can't wheel yourself around in a wheel chair or have someone push you around you can't enter the parks. It can be done under the guise of Risk Management and Liability. Honestly, it's such a small percentage of guests it wouldn't even be a blip on the bottom line even if all the people who drive scooters stopped coming.

Thanks, guess my DW won't be visiting then, as she requires a scooter to get around for more than one hour. .

 

[PhotoDave219]

Thanks, guess my DW won't be visiting then, as she requires a scooter to get around for more than one hour. .

A good friend of mine needs one due to a traumatic brain injury. The looks we get when touring the parks are pretty priceless. Generally we're smart about how we get around the parks.

 

[rob0519]

Thanks, guess my DW won't be visiting then, as she requires a scooter to get around for more than one hour. .

It was actually a sarcastic response which doesn't really come across well in text. That being said, there's nothing to say you can't push your wife around in a wheel chair for an hour either. My family and I take turns pushing our 40 year old disabled son around the parks for multiple hours at a time. and yes, we have the same problem with people stopping dead in their tracks and darting out in front of us.