Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
It wasn't a huge commercial success, but it also didn't reach Lone Ranger levels of fail either. THAT was a bomb, flop, turkey, etc.
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Launchpad McQuack
Well-Known Member
I'm all for Walt Disney/Disney Animation stuff being in the park. I actually wish one of the future "lands" for DHS would be a "Toon Town" type area devoted to Mickey and his pals (complete with at least a dark ride).
However, like I said before, preexisting IPs have always been a huge part of DHS/MGM. If we don't want non-Disney properties in the park, we first need to completely demolish Great Movie Ride. Other than the Fantasia scene, it's all non-Disney. We can then take out Star Tours, Indiana Jones, Muppets, and Tower of Terror. I guess we would need to take out Rock n Rollercoaster, as well.
Why would Disney not want to capitalize on their access to some of the biggest movies ever in a park devoted to Hollywood?
Clearly WDW will never make everyone happy. Add Frozen (a Disney Animation original, especially considering it is only VERY loosely based on the Snow Queen) to DHS, people flip out. Add Star Wars to DHS, another group flips out.
Cmdr_Crimson
Well-Known Member
Because REAL Creativity and imaginative stories for attractions are dead..That's why the oversea parks get better theming and attractions while the US parks are an IP Wonderland of nonsense...
Launchpad McQuack
Well-Known Member
Can preexisting IPs and creativity not coexist?
If we can get a great/innovative/immersive attraction out of something like Star Wars, Avatar, Harry Potter at Universal, etc, why not take something people already love and create a new experience with it? I go back to Tower of Terror. It's an IP that Disney had nothing to do with, and they were able to make it one of the best attractions/rides in the world.
Anyway, I will stop talking about this now. This thread is for whether or not Muppet*Vision should stay, so I will just go back to my previous answer of yes, it should stay for now, shut down for a while after some new attractions open, and then reopen with major refurbishments and updates.
MKCP 1985
Well-Known Member
Magenta Panther said:
Good point. If Walt Disney is removed from "his" own park, what could possibly be sacred?
Because of the sheer magnitude of the losses, Lone Ranger can't be the measuring stick for a flop. Neither can "Mars Needs Moms" which somehow managed to lose over $100 MILLION dollars and who can forget John Carter? Well, the movie going public forgot him.
The objective truth is that there are hits and misses among the muppet movies that have been released since the 80s. That doesn't mean they shouldn't or should have an attraction at the Studios park. To me, it would seem the question is simply whether they draw a crowd and justify their presence in the park. I would say they do but their presence is not sacred and the Muppet Vision attraction is not a sacred cow in my opinion.
Launchpad McQuack
Well-Known Member
You're definitely right in that it's not a sacred cow. I think the only things at this point in DHS that they 100% could not completely get rid of are GMR and ToT. They can upgrade ToT a bit here and there, and they can do major refurbs to GMR, but getting rid of either would be bad. Magic Kingdom is home to many sacred attractions (Haunted Mansion, Pirates of the Caribbean, Space Mountain, etc).
While I don't think it would ruin the park or my vacations in the future if the Muppets were removed/replaced entirely, I would PREFER they keep a presence in their little corner of the park.
FoozieBear
Well-Known Member
@Magenta Panther. You purposely went and ignored all the positive reviews of the show to back yourself up, completely ignoring the fact that most are generally positive and all shows need time to grow. It was also the biggest premiere on television this season and one of ABC's biggest ever.
I think MMW was a victim of lousy timing. It came after a whole slew of family films (Frozen, The Lego Movie) and went up against Divergent. The TV show should hopefully do well.
I think MMW was a victim of lousy timing. It came after a whole slew of family films (Frozen, The Lego Movie) and went up against Divergent. The TV show should hopefully do well.
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216bruce
Well-Known Member
According to IMDB, MMW cost about 50 million and made a little over 51 million. Profit=not-a -bomb. It also doesn't mean a success to warrant more either. It's financial take was like how I found the movie...meh. Watchable, had a few moments.
I do wish them well on ABC.
I do wish them well on ABC.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
That figure doesn't include the revenue from home video or cable deals. Factor those in, and I'd think MMW qualifies as a success, albeit a very modest one.
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
I could have easily seen Disney getting ride of GMR if it hadn't picked up a sponsor at the very last minute before the new theme for the park was coming in. Luckily, it did pick up a sponsor. Thank the lord. But I definitely could have seen it going.
And I wouldn't count on sacred attractions like Pirates and Mansion or Space to be going away, because they are very popular. The small sacred attractions, though... I could see something happening to them. Like a restaurant expansion or something. This mainly goes to the animatronic shows such as Tiki Room and Country Bear Jamboree. Those attractions that don't have any Disney movie references, are not the popular, AND aren't really kept up with maintenance-wise anyways.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
For what it's worth, I firmly believe that if Star Wars Land is indeed going to replace Muppet*Vision 3D/Streets of America and not Echo Lake is because Echo Lake is where the Frozen Sing-Along is, and in Disney's eyes anything Frozen is sacred.
216bruce
Well-Known Member
True, but I don't know if the budget includes marketing costs and other "soft" expenses. Regardless, it wasn't a flop, wasn't boffo box office. It was 'presentable' as far as cash goes.
FoozieBear
Well-Known Member
Indeed. Not a flop, but it did perform modestly. A bit of an under performance which I think would have been better if not for lousy timing.
See, things like this just do nothing more than solidify the fact that Bob Iger is worse than Michael Eisner. At least Eisner cared about Walt's legacy and had OMD made in the first place! All Iger cares about nowadays is "Frozen this and Star Wars that"...and did I mention that under his tyranny, they're re-making Mary Poppins?
So, yeah--Iger: worse than Eisner.
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
From The New York Times: The kissy-kissy queen had experienced a long-awaited movie comeback in 2011 with “The Muppets,” which took in $165 million worldwide for Walt Disney Studios. But a 2014 sequel, “Muppets Most Wanted,” was a relative flop. Disney’s studio cut its losses — “Hi-yah!,”as Piggy might say, executing one of her cranky karate chops — and a campaign to bring 1970s-era puppets to the Pixar generation ended. http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/13/a...-has-a-talk-show-and-a-chatty-staff.html?_r=0
From the Los Angeles Times: Yet as with Beaker trying not to blow up the lab, the question of whether a forerunner can come back in the age it helped create is a perpetual one. After all, the Henson creatures' latest big-screen foray, "Muppets Most Wanted," flopped just last year.
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-ca-st-fall-tv-muppets-20150913-story.html
From Collider.com: At the press day for Neighbors, Steve spoke with director Nicholas Stoller, and their conversation turned to The Muppets and Muppets Most Wanted, both of which Stoller co-wrote. During the interview, Stoller talked about not knowing why Muppets Most Wanted flopped, but more importantly, he talked about the possibility of bring the Muppets back to television. http://wdsearch.usrs0.com/cari/New_MUPPETS_TV_Show_News_from_Nicholas_Stoller__Collider.html
When even the writer of "Muppets Most Wanted" admits it was a flop...well, there you are.
Of course, all that's really got nothing to do with what's going on with the TV show and the attraction. But facts are facts. It's best to use those in place of excuses and rationalizations.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Yeah, and the facts with the new show are that it had good ratings for a premiere up against some very tough established competition, and thus far, most of the audience reviews have been generally positive. Facts.
MKCP 1985
Well-Known Member
I visited the Walt Disney museum in San Francisco during its first year of operations and asked the curator why it was located so far away from the historical presence in Burbank. She told me the Disney family wanted people to know the person and not the company brand and felt San Francisco was the place to do so.
In the short time since, those words have proven to be prophetic. Kids born today do not think of Disney as a historical person, but instead a brand like Apple or McDonalds. The removal of that exhibit is really sad.
Walt Disney1955
Well-Known Member
Magenta Panther
Well-Known Member
When you can't win an argument, deflect.
I predicted that the show's first episode would certainly get looked at, and it did. Your point?
Certainly there have been some positive reviews. Feel free to post them here.
I'm kind of getting a kick out of the way the producers of the show are pushing the envelope...hard. They have to have been braced for a possible backlash. And they've been getting it. Not just from the negative reviews - and there are more of them than are posted at Rotten Tomatoes - but from the public. Take a look at the Muppets ABC Facebook page. Some people like the show, some are very upset, and I doubt that the latter are all coming from the One Million Moms bunch. Most of the remarks have the word "disappointment" in them. It'll be interesting to see how this all shakes out. Again, I have to hand it to the puppets' producers for taking a risk. But on the other hand, they didn't have much to lose.
Matt_Black
Well-Known Member
Some good reviews here and here.
And the One Million* Moms are protesting this? Yeah, that will be about as effective as when they tried to take on the Archie Comics.
*They do not actually number one million. They are not even close to being one million. Unless you count the voices they no doubt hear in their pea-brains.
And the One Million* Moms are protesting this? Yeah, that will be about as effective as when they tried to take on the Archie Comics.
*They do not actually number one million. They are not even close to being one million. Unless you count the voices they no doubt hear in their pea-brains.