Rumours Circulating Mine Train Coaster Could be Cancelled!!!

jt04

Well-Known Member
Yep...but it won't be.


:brick:
It's not going down there. Your dream of a utilidor level ride will have to wait...possibly forever.

Sorry but I can't be talked out of this. To go from such an amazingly themed land(s) that was once planned to one that has what is obviously an amusement park ride plopped right in the middle of it (no matter how well themed) seems a step backward. I don't want to hear about kinetics etc. This is a knee jerk reaction to Legoland reminiscent of the Eisner era. I like the ride but think the location is a terrible mistake unless they hide most or all of the track.

I hope they prove me wrong on this but I just feel very uneasy about it as this is not an add like Birthdayland or Dinorama which can be easily removed. If they build this and it does not work, we are stuck with it forever. :brick:

I am stunned I am the only one who sees the potential fail with this "attraction".
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I can't be talked out of this. To go from such an amazingly themed land(s) that was once planned to one that has what is obviously an amusement park ride plopped right in the middle of it (no matter how well themed) seems a step backward. I don't want to hear about kinetics etc. This is a knee jerk reaction to Legoland reminiscent of the Eisner era. I like the ride but think the location is a terrible mistake unless they hide most or all of the track.

I hope they prove me wrong on this but I just feel very uneasy about it as this is not an add like Birthdayland or Dinorama which can be easily removed. If they build this and it does not work, we are stuck with it forever. :brick:

I am stunned I am the only one who sees the potential fail with this "attraction".

I give it to you sir, you are the best troll I have ever seen.
 

Lee

Adventurer
To go from such an amazingly themed land(s) that was once planned to one that has what is obviously an amusement park ride plopped right in the middle of it (no matter how well themed) seems a step backward.

Not sure I understand...
If the 7D mine ride is as well themed as the other "amazingly themed land(s)"...where is the fail? Is it just because it's a coaster and you may see some track?:shrug:
 

rsoxguy

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I can't be talked out of this. To go from such an amazingly themed land(s) that was once planned to one that has what is obviously an amusement park ride plopped right in the middle of it (no matter how well themed) seems a step backward. I don't want to hear about kinetics etc. This is a knee jerk reaction to Legoland reminiscent of the Eisner era. I like the ride but think the location is a terrible mistake unless they hide most or all of the track.

I hope they prove me wrong on this but I just feel very uneasy about it as this is not an add like Birthdayland or Dinorama which can be easily removed. If they build this and it does not work, we are stuck with it forever. :brick:

I am stunned I am the only one who sees the potential fail with this "attraction".


Hmm, I never thought of it this way. I understand what you are saying, but I think that the same thing can be said about the Dumbo ride. You have, however, given me food for thought. I really lean toward seeing this as a very whimsical and positive addition to the area. I was never a fan of Ariel's Grotto, but in the end it served its purpose and did not come off as a terribly obtrusive area. Perhaps this attraction will blend in even better?
 

MerlinTheGoat

Well-Known Member
I don't see any sort of fail with the ride or its design. Looks really awesome if the ride can at all live up to the concept art. A mine ride is among the best possible ways to disguise the fact that something is a roller coaster, and mine trains are my favorite KIND of coaster. As it is, it blends extremely well in the art. Of course, there's a slight chance it won't look quite as good, but i can't imagine it looking bad at all.

I also can't imagine why you'd prefer a meet and greet there instead. Those to me, are a far bigger waste of time and only appeal to a narrow range of people compared to a physical ride (which anyone can enjoy, even without kids).

Unless you're just trying hard to find something to complain about, i can't fathom why you would want to complain about it. Unless the ride itself ends up stinking (which may or may not happen, but that's not relevant in the outward theme aspect).

Now the old Renaissance fair facades of all the old Fantasyland rides, now THAT is ugly and i'd agree if you were bashing that for bad theming.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
Hmm, I never thought of it this way. I understand what you are saying, but I think that the same thing can be said about the Dumbo ride. You have, however, given me food for thought. I really lean toward seeing this as a very whimsical and positive addition to the area. I was never a fan of Ariel's Grotto, but in the end it served its purpose and did not come off as a terribly obtrusive area. Perhaps this attraction will blend in even better?

I really hope you are right and am relieved someone hears what I am saying. That increases the odds someone at Imagineering also sees the potential clash of themes.

I wasn't amazed by the original FLE artwork because of the enhanced M&G's at all. It was the cutting edge immersion of the land. The entire idea of a forest beyond the castle walls that contained mythical lands with immersive lands within them. Guests were taken further and further into the story. Like a "real life" version of a multiplane camera shot is the best analogy I can think of.

So I just hope (as I have said many times) that they seriously consider properly theming the ride. Big Thunder Mountain makes sense running out of control in the wild west. A smaller version in the middle of a fantasyland forest (that has been so well designed) seems a less likely place for such a theme.

I don't hate coasters and I like this ride. The placement just seems wrong to me. Just an opinion.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
Sorry but I can't be talked out of this. To go from such an amazingly themed land(s) that was once planned to one that has what is obviously an amusement park ride plopped right in the middle of it (no matter how well themed) seems a step backward. I don't want to hear about kinetics etc. This is a knee jerk reaction to Legoland reminiscent of the Eisner era. I like the ride but think the location is a terrible mistake unless they hide most or all of the track.

I hope they prove me wrong on this but I just feel very uneasy about it as this is not an add like Birthdayland or Dinorama which can be easily removed. If they build this and it does not work, we are stuck with it forever. :brick:

I am stunned I am the only one who sees the potential fail with this "attraction".

Yes you are. This ride will not be a failure. It will add so much energy to fantasyland. Ever since the skyway went away fantasyland has been in dire need of some kinetics and a GOOD family ride.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
I guess if you can't refute me on the points I am making you must resort to name calling. Sad but not suprising.

Oh, refuting your craziness is easy. This post finally settled it for me that you're just here to get some jollies and try to rile people up. No reason to waste time trying to reason with you.
 

SeaCastle

Well-Known Member
I really hope you are right and am relieved someone hears what I am saying. That increases the odds someone at Imagineering also sees the potential clash of themes.

I wasn't amazed by the original FLE artwork because of the enhanced M&G's at all. It was the cutting edge immersion of the land. The entire idea of a forest beyond the castle walls that contained mythical lands with immersive lands within them. Guests were taken further and further into the story. Like a "real life" version of a multiplane camera shot is the best analogy I can think of.

So I just hope (as I have said many times) that they seriously consider properly theming the ride. Big Thunder Mountain makes sense running out of control in the wild west. A smaller version in the middle of a fantasyland forest (that has been so well designed) seems a less likely place for such a theme.

I don't hate coasters and I like this ride. The placement just seems wrong to me. Just an opinion.

I see your line of thinking, and to form an opinion for myself, I took a look at the concept art. I studied the 'birds eye' mine train art in of itself, and then the newly revised concept art, and then the original concept art for reference.
Here are some observations I made after comparing artwork and blueprints:
a.) The expansion is too building-oriented. You can obviously see the m&g showbuilding, though hid by two-dimensional facade of a couple of castles and a cottage, as well as some rock. Because we are not able to see the north-facing side of the complex, I can't comment on that. They did, however, put a large amount of vegetation into the original expansion, which helps hide it a little.

b.) Lack of unity. Though the later design suffers a bit from this, there seems to be no attempt at a cohesive theme or flow. Despite being based off of Disney animated movies (from totally separate eras, I may add), there's not much that the new additions have in common. Where's the flow? How would you thematically link a decidedly tropical tide pool and castle (and grotto) with a French village? Why would you find such a thing in a "Fantasyland Forest"? Of course, this makes less sense with the "New Fantasyland".

c. Poor sightlines. According to the original art, if you're travelling counter-clockwise around the Magic Kingdom from Tomorrowland, how on earth would you be able to see the Little Mermaid attraction or the Beauty and the Beast Castle? Even Pixie Hollow and the Dumbo is off of the beaten path. What we're seeing here is a "pocket" kind of design for this expansion, sort of like Toontown at Disneyland. The main attraction(s) are off of the beaten path. With the exception of the the MK mountains, all of the attractions of the Magic Kingdom are located on a major thoroughfare. The Mountains, however, have wienies to drag you in. Sure, the LM and BatB facades will be prominent, but would you be able to see them across the land? Even if you're coming from Fantasyland West, the Castle Walls will block your vision of anything until you are past them. If the Coaster will indeed be the showcasing attraction of the expansion, it is misplaced- it should be located behind the other additions in the area, to serve as a wienie to draw people in. Unless they re-locate the exit to traffic guests to the north-facing side of the attraction, would the average guest even see the new area? Heck, according to the leaked blueprints, you wouldn't even have direct pedestrian access from the Tomorrowland area to the Dumbos, or even the Little Mermaid.

If I think of more observations later, I'll add them here.

I have, however, arrived at the conclusion that though the Seven Dwarves coaster is misplaced, the landscaping treatment it will get, along with the open spaces, cottage, green rolling hills/mountains, fits in better than the castle complex, though the New Fantasyland has some fundamental problems both related and unrelated to the Seven Dwarves mine coaster. The Subs ride must have fit better than this.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I see your line of thinking, and to form an opinion for myself, I took a look at the concept art. I studied the 'birds eye' mine train art in of itself, and then the newly revised concept art, and then the original concept art for reference.
Here are some observations I made after comparing artwork and blueprints:
a.) The expansion is too building-oriented. You can obviously see the m&g showbuilding, though hid by two-dimensional facade of a couple of castles and a cottage, as well as some rock. Because we are not able to see the north-facing side of the complex, I can't comment on that. They did, however, put a large amount of vegetation into the original expansion, which helps hide it a little.

b.) Lack of unity. Though the later design suffers a bit from this, there seems to be no attempt at a cohesive theme or flow. Despite being based off of Disney animated movies (from totally separate eras, I may add), there's not much that the new additions have in common. Where's the flow? How would you thematically link a decidedly tropical tide pool and castle (and grotto) with a French village? Why would you find such a thing in a "Fantasyland Forest"? Of course, this makes less sense with the "New Fantasyland".

c. Poor sightlines. According to the original art, if you're travelling counter-clockwise around the Magic Kingdom from Tomorrowland, how on earth would you be able to see the Little Mermaid attraction or the Beauty and the Beast Castle? Even Pixie Hollow and the Dumbo is off of the beaten path. What we're seeing here is a "pocket" kind of design for this expansion, sort of like Toontown at Disneyland. The main attraction(s) are off of the beaten path. With the exception of the the MK mountains, all of the attractions of the Magic Kingdom are located on a major thoroughfare. The Mountains, however, have wienies to drag you in. Sure, the LM and BatB facades will be prominent, but would you be able to see them across the land? Even if you're coming from Fantasyland West, the Castle Walls will block your vision of anything until you are past them. If the Coaster will indeed be the showcasing attraction of the expansion, it is misplaced- it should be located behind the other additions in the area, to serve as a wienie to draw people in. Unless they re-locate the exit to traffic guests to the north-facing side of the attraction, would the average guest even see the new area? Heck, according to the leaked blueprints, you wouldn't even have direct pedestrian access from the Tomorrowland area to the Dumbos, or even the Little Mermaid.

If I think of more observations later, I'll add them here.

I have, however, arrived at the conclusion that though the Seven Dwarves coaster is misplaced, the landscaping treatment it will get, along with the open spaces, cottage, green rolling hills/mountains, fits in better than the castle complex, though the New Fantasyland has some fundamental problems both related and unrelated to the Seven Dwarves mine coaster. The Subs ride must have fit better than this.

I agree that landscaping can save the project. I think it was/is ideal that you don't see past the castle walls easily except for the forced perspective elements high on the very distant horizon and then only occasional glimpses. That would have the effect of creating a great sense of depth and motivate guests to jouney through the forest. I really think this is an underutilized 'special effect' in park design. The "passport to dreams" blog wrote a couple years ago that it could or should be a part of the FLE and it should be trendsetting design by the looks of it so far. I am hoping they do the same thing at the former skyway location.

I always thought the north facing side of the original complex would be themed to the 'land' it was facing whether it be Mermaid or BatB making it truly immersive in a manner similar to a World Showcase pavilion. Now I wonder if while standing in these lands guests will see a kids roller coaster with screaming guests thereby ruining the immersive atmosphere of the mini-lands. That would be a shame. Simple solution is to build the mountain over much of the track or enclose as much track as possible. Since it is a ride in a mine that only makes sense anyway.
 

boufa

Well-Known Member
I am stunned I am the only one who sees the potential fail with this "attraction".

I disagree with your premise, but am open to the possibility that it could be a fail. An open does not judge success or failure solely on plans, and definitely not on concept art.

The entire FLE could turn out to be a huge win, or even a huge fail. We won't know until we see the elements working together. The devil is in the details, and until its complete we will not see the details.

The work I am hearing is that it will be a moderate intensity ride, "somewhere between the barnstormer and Big Thunder" with an appeal to the vast majority of the family. Everest (which is a tame coaster as coasters go) this will not be.

One of the very early concepts was a carousel based dark ride/ coaster ride. It would start as a carousel ride and after 1 or 2 laps around, the horses would go single file and travel off as the ride vehicles onto the dark ride portion. Could have been done well, could have been a real waste, depends on the development. It was killed because it was too much princess.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
One of the very early concepts was a carousel based dark ride/ coaster ride. It would start as a carousel ride and after 1 or 2 laps around, the horses would go single file and travel off as the ride vehicles onto the dark ride portion. Could have been done well, could have been a real waste, depends on the development. It was killed because it was too much princess.

A concept like that just screams Mary Poppins. Would of been an ideal theme for it since that is exactly what happens magically in the movie and with Bert and the fox hunters it would of been smart to do because it would of had the appeal for everyone.
 

ayefour corp.

New Member
Sorry but I can't be talked out of this. To go from such an amazingly themed land(s) that was once planned to one that has what is obviously an amusement park ride plopped right in the middle of it (no matter how well themed) seems a step backward. I don't want to hear about kinetics etc. This is a knee jerk reaction to Legoland reminiscent of the Eisner era. I like the ride but think the location is a terrible mistake unless they hide most or all of the track.

I hope they prove me wrong on this but I just feel very uneasy about it as this is not an add like Birthdayland or Dinorama which can be easily removed. If they build this and it does not work, we are stuck with it forever. :brick:

I am stunned I am the only one who sees the potential fail with this "attraction".



I hate to be the bearer of bad news to you sir, but Are you aware that most attractions are just themed " amusement park rides "

Did you think the theming would be less than par? I am confused on what would bring on this idea, as the concept art available for the general public paints a good picture of what is going on, without showing too much of track/vehicle schematics ( yet ;) ) I feel as if you needed something to complain about, but I'd say be patient for once and wait.


( ayefour who remembers how much easier life was for some people he knows, before the internet changed his job forever )
 

raven

Well-Known Member
Sorry Lee for not sharing with you first, but I'm throwing the wolves a bone.

Did some searching and dug up an example to show everyone that everything is still a go. These are as of the begining of June this year:

Ride vehicle research study photo (from the movie)
005.jpg


Ride vehicle (concept only)
002.jpg


Full scale foam mock up
003.jpg
 

wm49rs

A naughty bit o' crumpet
Premium Member
Sorry Lee for not sharing with you first, but I'm throwing the wolves a bone.

Did some searching and dug up an example to show everyone that everything is still a go. These are as of the begining of June this year:

Ride vehicle research study photo (from the movie)
005.jpg


Ride vehicle (concept only)
002.jpg


Full scale foam mock up
003.jpg

Now THAT looks pretty cool. Thanks as always for sharing. :sohappy:
 

raven

Well-Known Member
Interesting setup design on those split section lap bars.

As what happened with ToT for the first several years, smaller guests or children sitting next to an adult utilizing the same lap bar caused a huge safety concern. I think this was a better option as it should allow for a lower hight limit.
 

Scuttle

Well-Known Member
As what happened with ToT for the first several years, smaller guests or children sitting next to an adult utilizing the same lap bar caused a huge safety concern. I think this was a better option as it should allow for a lower hight limit.

Me to! Good decision by WDI. I'll never forget the picture I have of when my friends father (mechanical engineer at Disney) took us to ride TOT. We were children at the time about 9-10 I think, but anyway my friend was about 5-6 inches taller than me and a little bit thicker back then and in the picture my head is above his. I wish I had it so I could post it. But yes this leads me to believe the height requirement will be 38 inches or less maybe. Thanks for throwing us a bone Raven we needed it.
 

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