Rumor concerning Phil Holmes

[jmvd20]

What in the world has happened to the "buck stops here". There is always someone else to blame - eh, it wasn't my fault, I wanted this but Joe over in Aneheim woudln't approve it.

The bottom line is that Phil is the head guy at MK, it is his job to get the higher ups to go along with what he thinks is best for the park - period. Spin it whatever way you want to but it all comes back to the fact that if he isn't getting the approval from the higher ups then he did not present his case effectively and is therefore not cut out for the position.

When I need more of something to get a project completed properly, whether it be manpower, money, more equipment etc... it is my responsibility to make sure that I get the ownership to give it to me. On numerous occasions it means that I need to sell the idea to them that I need this support more than another project manager on a different project. It doesn't matter if the higher ups dont give me the support I want or need, if a project fails it is my you know what on the line...

I have absolutley zero inside sources, and have never been at Disney corporate meetings. However, in the end I do not need to be directly involved in these meetings or have "inside" sources to be able to form an opinion as to whether or not a top CEO is doing their job effectively.

I dont know a single source at GM, have never seen "insider GM documents", and have never sat in on a board meeting - but I can surely tell you that the executives have really screwed up over there...

 

[WDW1974]

First of all, thank you to WDW1974 for putting into so eloquent words what I wanted to say. I'll be the first to admit as an engineer I'm not the best at putting my feelings into words.

Thank you for the kind words. Maybe I'll write a book some day!
But you'll make the big bucks!

Second of all I'm glad to hear that there maybe some truth to this rumor.

The reason I am not saying it is beyond rumor at this point is because I am trying to get a confirmation. The info I have appears solid, but it's not from ... well ... my peeps.

I will tell you Phil's 'private, confidential' voicemail is active right now but that means nothing at all.

And while I could simply call him, I have no intention of calling someone I met in passing and asking him 'are you still employed?'

So it appears the mystery shall continue into the weekend.

Third of all, jakeman, you really don't know what it's like to be a front line CM. Sorry, but no matter how hard you try, your complaints aren't going to be respected.

I don't want to answer for another poster, but I will say that unless you work for Disney or have friends that do, you really may struggle to get how true the above statement is.

This isn't 1979 or 1989 ... or even 1999. Frontline CMs are simply bodies to anyone above them who hasn't worked their way up ... and even those folks aren't guaranteed to listen.

And finally, I've got a list of people I believe should take over for Phil, but I doubt any of them will get a chance.

I'll bet some of them were escorted to the cast parking lots this week.

~What Up Phil?~

 

[WDW1974]

What in the world has happened to the "buck stops here". There is always someone else to blame - eh, it wasn't my fault, I wanted this but Joe over in Aneheim woudln't approve it.

The bottom line is that Phil is the head guy at MK, it is his job to get the higher ups to go along with what he thinks is best for the park - period. Spin it whatever way you want to but it all comes back to the fact that if he isn't getting the approval from the higher ups then he did not present his case effectively and is therefore not cut out for the position.

When I need more of something to get a project completed properly, whether it be manpower, money, more equipment etc... it is my responsibility to make sure that I get the ownership to give it to me. On numerous occasions it means that I need to sell the idea to them that I need this support more than another project manager on a different project. It doesn't matter if the higher ups dont give me the support I want or need, if a project fails it is my you know what on the line...

I have absolutley zero inside sources, and have never been at Disney corporate meetings. However, in the end I do not need to be directly involved in these meetings or have "inside" sources to be able to form an opinion as to whether or not a top CEO is doing their job effectively.

I dont know a single source at GM, have never seen "insider GM documents", and have never sat in on a board meeting - but I can surely tell you that the executives have really screwed up over there...

Very well put.

People need to wake up and stop the spinning for people in positions of power, be they in companies or in government.

This idea that the masses are too stupid to detect mass stupidity is ... well, quite ignorant.

~So ... you lost $85 million A DAY and you want taxpayer $$$?~

 

[SirGoofy]

I'll bet some of them were escorted to the cast parking lots this week.

Unfortunately I'm afraid this may be true. I'm still trying to get conformation about some of my good friends that are( hopefully not were) employed by the company.

 

[jakeman]

I'm not going to bother to multi-quote.

I did work for Disney as a frontline CM so I do know what it's like. In most cases you are afforded the respect that you show. At least that was my experience working there.

I also work in the corporate world now in management, so I'm on the other side of the fence, which allows me a certain perspective on decision making that seems to be lacking here.

When it boils down to it, frontline CMs that don't take the time to continuously follow up on reported problems aren't doing their job. Any supervisor who does the same also isn't doing their job.

Pretty much all I'm hearing from everyone in this thread are excuses.

 

[hemloc]

I did work for Disney as a frontline CM so I do know what it's like.

Of course you were...

I also work in the corporate world now in management, so I'm on the other side of the fence, which allows me a certain perspective on decision making that seems to be lacking here.

Of course you are...

Pretty much all I'm hearing from everyone in this thread are excuses.

So, what things did you get fixed whilst a castmember??

Sorry, but they don't even listen to the customers complaints, so how can we expect to believe they would listen to a lowly castmember?? You're living in Fantasyland, that's for sure!!

 

[TURKEY]

I'm not going to bother to multi-quote.

I did work for Disney as a frontline CM so I do know what it's like. In most cases you are afforded the respect that you show. At least that was my experience working there.

I also work in the corporate world now in management, so I'm on the other side of the fence, which allows me a certain perspective on decision making that seems to be lacking here.

When it boils down to it, frontline CMs that don't take the time to continuously follow up on reported problems aren't doing their job. Any supervisor who does the same also isn't doing their job.

Pretty much all I'm hearing from everyone in this thread are excuses.

Since you no longer are a cast member, where and when did you work?


I'm sure complaining every day about the Yeti being broken has helped so much.

 

[whylightbulb]

I'm not trying to focus only on you, but this quote seems to be the mantra of several outspoken posters here. Yet, it's completely subjective. If true, the numbers would back it up with lower attendance and many more people complaining than a very small percentage of posters on internet forums. I've yet to meet a person that have made such observations. I've ONLY seen such remarks from a few, yet vocal, fanboys.



I agree, if a lot of people stopped going, you may see some announcements of new projects. Yet, they keep coming even amid this economy. No matter how many "buy 3 get 4 free" deals or "free dining" they run, if the consumer did not want the product, they would not buy.

This is pretty short-sighted and indicative of the current company mentality. What we, as you call "fanboys," are saying is that the WDC is on a slippery slope. It's incontrovertible that standards have been lowered steadily since the mid 90's. It will take some time before the consequences are seen in attendance numbers. Disney still has their huge marketing and synergy machine to rely on. Many casual visitors haven't experienced enough visits to compare the lower value today with what they could have gotten 10 years ago for far less money yet. But many have. Just because you haven't personally talked with them doesn't mean they aren't prevelant.

The other issue is that where else can they go within budget? Once again, Disney's marketing machine with its buy 3 get 4 free is hard to pass up these days. There aren't many other options in the eastern US that offer the same kind of entertainment so where else can they go if that is what they are looking for? So many of them will take what they can get from WDW despite the lowered value. Will consumers eventually grow tired of the same old slop being served up by WDI and WDW management? I don't know. I've been amazed lately at what consumers accept as quality and the norm these days. But at what point shoud they begin planning for this possibility? After attendance drops or should they head it off to maintain the numbers? Should they take pride in their product and offer more than the customer expects or should continue to lower the status quo? At what point will Disney become just like Six Flags?

 

[MousDad]

Spend a day in the real world and what happens?

Another Phil Holmes thread of 10 pages! If he only knew how popular he was here then he might read this site more than LP.com!

I don't like adding to rumors, and I don't honestly know what has/is going down with Phil. I do know that two MK managers swear he was axed late yesterday afternoon. Either they know, or they are deliberating spreading a mistruth because they can't stand the guy. I won't add to that. But I am really wondering what the deal is.

I do know Cynthia Harriss was fired at DLR Prez three months before she 'resigned' to 'spend more time with family' ... of course, the fatal accident on BTMRR and Disney Legal telling Michael Eisner he couldn't pull the trigger publically on it had everything to do with that.

Again, I am NOT saying that is the case here. Just that when execs leave Disney things are often not what they seem.

But I will tackle the whole issue of the job Phil's done a bit. And the fact so many seem willing to feel bad for him if he indeed is jobless.

To be blunt, I have little sympathy for anyone at his level who loses their job, even if it isn't fair because anyone who is a seven-figure exec (and with his compensation package and years of stock options and bonuses, Phil qualifies) doesn't engender sympathy from me when people with children are living in tent cities these days. If an exec has to downsize from a mansion to a mini McMansion then so be it ... if they have to buy a car to replace the company one, again so be it. If they have to dip into their savings (since they're lucky enough to be able to put away significant sums) again sorry, but no sympathy.

As to Phil's worth as an exec, he is not highly thought of by most rank and file cast. He has allowed standards to slip across the board in a way that no other MK leader has. From a guest standpoint, I just look at the way the MK looks and operates now vs. the way it did prior to his 'leadership' ... I have met him in passing, so I have no personal experiences to base an opinion on. Others have told me everything from him being 'very personable one on one' to 'clueless' to 'an aloof (blank) hole' to 'just in over his head and wanting to keep Jay happy.'

No, he doesn't make the big decisions. But he does affect them. The top dog of each park does set a tone in the direction the park takes (again within parameters set down from TDO and Burbank). They can make a huge difference. Brad Rex (who I thought was a very nice man, but had no business running EPCOT) fought for $$$ that resulted in Soarin being added when those bucks could have also gone to MK. When Burbank approved funds for a Nightmare overlay to Mansion, Holmes balked and the money went to various 'infrastructure' improvements, which included everything from flat screens in the utilidors playing Disney commercials 24/7 to new office furniture.

Anyone who doesn't understand the day-to-day way a VP affects a park should take a look at how DAK Ops run under Val Bunting (formerly Phil's GM at MK) vs. when Dr. Beth Stevens ran the park. It's a disaster now and that's not something that can be blamed simply on TDO or Al Weiss or Jay Rasulo. Ultimately, it is the VP's job to figure out how best to balance all the eggs (from guest needs to cast to making numbers that make the people above happy). Some people can balance them better than others.

More often than not, Phil has dropped the eggs on the walkways and then not cleaned up because he's cut custodial.

And it isn't that Phil doesn't know better. He started out as frontline CM ... so when the Mansion (HIS attraction) was in disrepair for his entire tenure before being refurbed recently it wasn't something that was off his radar.

Again, just because someone has attained a certain position in any endeavor doesn't mean they are smart or talented or deserve the job. I think lots of folks are naive and believe that. It's not simply Disney or media/entertainment companies, almost any field you can think of is like this.

There are quality execs at Disney ... and there are execs that are less than.

~Wanna Run the MK?~

I don't generally fawn over your posts - it's a little like petting a crocodile and telling it what nice shiny teeth it has - but this one was spot on.

I was frankly shocked at the number of Phil Homes apologists who were popping up.

And yes, what you said about money is right. If he gets fired, that just means he gets to live for a year just like he is now without working, before he lines up a new gig, works the speaking circuit, does some consulting, etc. No sympathy is needed.

I've trusted what the people on this site who have earned my respect have said about Phil Holmes, and the fact that he may or may not have been axed doesn't change that.

 

[unkadug]

I don't generally fawn over your posts - it's a little like petting a crocodile and telling it what nice shiny teeth it has - but this one was spot on.

I was frankly shocked at the number of Phil Homes apologists who were popping up.

And yes, what you said about money is right. If he gets fired, that just means he gets to live for a year just like he is now without working, before he lines up a new gig, works the speaking circuit, does some consulting, etc. No sympathy is needed.

I've trusted what the people on this site who have earned my respect have said about Phil Holmes, and the fact that he may or may not have been axed doesn't change that.

Be careful. Talk like that is what got the first thread about Phil closed.

And why this one is still open is a mystery. Have the facts changed?

 

[wdwmagic]

When Burbank approved funds for a Nightmare overlay to Mansion, Holmes balked and the money went to various 'infrastructure' improvements, which included everything from flat screens in the utilidors playing Disney commercials 24/7 to new office furniture.

Anyone who doesn't understand the day-to-day way a VP affects a park should take a look at how DAK Ops run under Val Bunting (formerly Phil's GM at MK) vs. when Dr. Beth Stevens ran the park. It's a disaster now and that's not something that can be blamed simply on TDO or Al Weiss or Jay Rasulo. Ultimately, it is the VP's job to figure out how best to balance all the eggs (from guest needs to cast to making numbers that make the people above happy). Some people can balance them better than others.

More often than not, Phil has dropped the eggs on the walkways and then not cleaned up because he's cut custodial.

The Nightmare overlay never had budget approved, nor didit ever come close to being done. It was briefly considered but ruled out by WDI and Operations. You simply cant close the WDW mansion for 4 months like you can at DL - it's totally out of the question for Orlando. And to say Phil took the budget and bought flat screens is ridiculous - do you really think he is so crazy to utilize attraction money to buy TV screens? And does it really add up? Flat TVs are a couple of $100 - attraction reburbs are in the $ millions. Come on.

I also dispute your AK story. Beth didnt care about attractions and shows, just the animals (which she did a great job of) . You talk about balance - During her time AK was internally rated the worst guest service park of the lot. Guess what, Val has turned that around. You cant take the poor state of Everest and call the entire park a disaster, because that just isnt true. Everest should be fixed, we all know that.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Like i said before, with Phil Holmes you know what you get.

Becareful what you're wishing for because you might very well just get it.

I'll take a Phil Holmes manager over a numbers-driven HR person with no front line experience any day of the week.

Think things were bad with Phil? They can get a whole lot worse.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Like i said before, with Phil Holmes you know what you get.

Becareful what you're wishing for because you might very well just get it.

I'll take a Phil Holmes manager over a numbers-driven HR person with no front line experience any day of the week.

Think things were bad with Phil? They can get a whole lot worse.

That's also true. I'm slightly optimistic though...If they removed Holmes for SOME reason, perhaps it was for someone else to take the helm of MK to new places.

Either way, I don't know. And either way, it's really not going to hinder my perception of MK or my experiences there, that much. It's WDW...I find it very, very hard to be miserable there.:lol:

 

[wannab@dis]

This is pretty short-sighted and indicative of the current company mentality. What we, as you call "fanboys," are saying is that the WDC is on a slippery slope. It's incontrovertible that standards have been lowered steadily since the mid 90's. It will take some time before the consequences are seen in attendance numbers. Disney still has their huge marketing and synergy machine to rely on. Many casual visitors haven't experienced enough visits to compare the lower value today with what they could have gotten 10 years ago for far less money yet. But many have. Just because you haven't personally talked with them doesn't mean they aren't prevelant.

Please take a moment and re-read your post above. Basically, you are saying that it's only the internet fanboys that really know what is going on and only they are smart enough to see a better outcome. They see what the company execs don't and they see things the average visitory don't. And they understand the needs of the business more than the people actually INVOLVED in the business.

Sorry, but I think it's actually the opposite. The execs actually have much more information that you will ever see. They know the budgets of ALL parts of the parks, even the areas that you have no interest in. That's the key point. They can't make decisions only based on their interests, but the entire big picture. Most of that picture is boring and fanboys have no clue it even exists. The ego of the fanboys is amazing and much over-flated.

I don't generally fawn over your posts - it's a little like petting a crocodile and telling it what nice shiny teeth it has - but this one was spot on.

I was frankly shocked at the number of Phil Homes apologists who were popping up.

And yes, what you said about money is right. If he gets fired, that just means he gets to live for a year just like he is now without working, before he lines up a new gig, works the speaking circuit, does some consulting, etc. No sympathy is needed.

I've trusted what the people on this site who have earned my respect have said about Phil Holmes, and the fact that he may or may not have been axed doesn't change that.

This will probably stray to far into the political notion, but if you want to look for a basic problem in the world, it's this idea of anyone that makes more money than the average is bad. The hatred of execs or someone making more money than they is unbelievable. I assume if you ever get a great promotion and make executive pay, you will just give it back to everyone that works for you.

 

[jt04]

Please take a moment and re-read your post above. Basically, you are saying that it's only the internet fanboys that really know what is going on and only they are smart enough to see a better outcome. They see what the company execs don't and they see things the average visitory don't. And they understand the needs of the business more than the people actually INVOLVED in the business.

Sorry, but I think it's actually the opposite. The execs actually have much more information that you will ever see. They know the budgets of ALL parts of the parks, even the areas that you have no interest in. That's the key point. They can't make decisions only based on their interests, but the entire big picture. Most of that picture is boring and fanboys have no clue it even exists. The ego of the fanboys is amazing and much over-flated.


This will probably stray to far into the political notion, but if you want to look for a basic problem in the world, it's this idea of anyone that makes more money than the average is bad. The hatred of execs or someone making more money than they is unbelievable. I assume if you ever get a great promotion and make executive pay, you will just give it back to everyone that works for you.

You are not being political at all. Great post.

 

[Erika]

Be careful. Talk like that is what got the first thread about Phil closed.

And why this one is still open is a mystery. Have the facts changed?

The facts have not changed, however, this one has managed to stay a lot more civil than the last (so far).

 

[ClemsonTigger]

The Nightmare overlay never had budget approved, nor didit ever come close to being done. It was briefly considered but ruled out by WDI and Operations. You simply cant close the WDW mansion for 4 months like you can at DL - it's totally out of the question for Orlando. And to say Phil took the budget and bought flat screens is ridiculous - do you really think he is so crazy to utilize attraction money to buy TV screens? And does it really add up? Flat TVs are a couple of $100 - attraction reburbs are in the $ millions. Come on.

I also dispute your AK story. Beth didnt care about attractions and shows, just the animals (which she did a great job of) . You talk about balance - During her time AK was internally rated the worst guest service park of the lot. Guess what, Val has turned that around. You cant take the poor state of Everest and call the entire park a disaster, because that just isnt true. Everest should be fixed, we all know that.

But he was on a roll, why ruin it with facts...

This will probably stray to far into the political notion, but if you want to look for a basic problem in the world, it's this idea of anyone that makes more money than the average is bad. The hatred of execs or someone making more money than they is unbelievable. I assume if you ever get a great promotion and make executive pay, you will just give it back to everyone that works for you.

To be blunt, I have little sympathy for anyone at his level who loses their job, even if it isn't fair because anyone who is a seven-figure exec (and with his compensation package and years of stock options and bonuses, Phil qualifies) doesn't engender sympathy from me when people with children are living in tent cities these days. If an exec has to downsize from a mansion to a mini McMansion then so be it ... if they have to buy a car to replace the company one, again so be it. If they have to dip into their savings (since they're lucky enough to be able to put away significant sums) again sorry, but no sympathy.

Onward to Socialism in the US! :brick:

Quote:
I did work for Disney as a frontline CM so I do know what it's like.

Of course you were...


Quote:
I also work in the corporate world now in management, so I'm on the other side of the fence, which allows me a certain perspective on decision making that seems to be lacking here.

Of course you are...


Quote:
Pretty much all I'm hearing from everyone in this thread are excuses.

So, what things did you get fixed whilst a castmember??

He just stated simple facts (his employment) and an opinion. why the attack?

Like i said before, with Phil Holmes you know what you get.

Becareful what you're wishing for because you might very well just get it.

I'll take a Phil Holmes manager over a numbers-driven HR person with no front line experience any day of the week.

Think things were bad with Phil? They can get a whole lot worse.

And that is a simple truth that people just can't seem to get! Just like firing a coach without a clue as to who you can get to replace them.

Considering the posts of all these industry experts on this site...the ones so quick to call others fanboys....

Do people still not comprehend that Disney (whatever it might have been 20 or 50 years ago) is now a business, and as such is driven by financial considerations. How can you honestly think that these trivial things will impact attendance? Do I want the Yeti fixed? yea, do I think it's embarrassing and an affront to "Disney mentality" yes, but does it stop one person from getting in the line to ride.....NO.

6 Flags is going under, Busch parks are to be sold off or whatever....Universal is doing OK...but with HP what, 1+ years delayed....

The bottom line is, Disney may not be what it was, or what it's Credo challenges it to be, or most importantly, what I want it to be , but it's doing pretty darn OK from a business sense....so if you expect any of our "fanboy" wishlists to be addressed "because it's required by Disney" is sadly mistaken.

 

[jt04]

Don't tread on you for going so far off topic in an attempt (purposefully or not) to get this thread closed. Seriously? :zipit:

Please keep it on topic, about how we all know we can do a better job than a guy who may or may not still work for the company... :drevil:

Ummmm, I didn't bring up the politics.

And the topic was settled long ago. Nobody here has a clue if he is keeping his job or not.



Warning: Don't tread on the people's class envy :lol:

 

[PhotoDave219]

That's also true. I'm slightly optimistic though...If they removed Holmes for SOME reason, perhaps it was for someone else to take the helm of MK to new places.

Not with the current track record of TWDC.

Meg Crofton? She's an HR bimbo, not a front line, park-ops gal. Think she won't bring in one of her fellow hen's and completely make it towards the numbers?

I'll take the devil I know.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

Not with the current track record of TWDC.

Meg Crofton? She's an HR bimbo, not a front line, park-ops gal. Think she won't bring in one of her fellow hen's and completely make it towards the numbers?

I'll take the devil I know.

Right, and that's why we are all up in arms.:lol::lol: WDC's track record is subjective to those who view it. I tend to be optimistic about what they can do (oh hai, Horizons!:lol but when it boils down to it, it's all conjecture and opinion.

For now, there is no definitive answer...and why this thread keeps going in circles. I give up.:lol: