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Rumor concerning Phil Holmes
- Thread starter Master Yoda
- Start date
Timmay
Well-Known Member
Not finger pointing here by any means…but I think it is easy for someone to look at upper management and place blame for things they may not like simply because they don’t have a lot of experience in making high level decisions in the business world. This is not a slam on anyone at all. I just know before I held a position of high level decision making, I looked on those people that did as having no clue why things were done the way they were…I was usually baffled.
Later in life, when I was sitting with those same people, I realized they were not throwing darts at a dart board or making decisions in a vacuum. Now, these decisions are not always right, but they were thought out…every single time.
So, many are upset about Phil Holmes and the job he has done. You know what…I don’t know the guy from a hole in the wall, but I guarantee he didn’t get in his position because of his terrible decision making skills or poor leadership quality.
Rome wasn’t built in a day…it wasn’t destroyed in a day either. And there were several, several people involved in each process.
Later in life, when I was sitting with those same people, I realized they were not throwing darts at a dart board or making decisions in a vacuum. Now, these decisions are not always right, but they were thought out…every single time.
So, many are upset about Phil Holmes and the job he has done. You know what…I don’t know the guy from a hole in the wall, but I guarantee he didn’t get in his position because of his terrible decision making skills or poor leadership quality.
Rome wasn’t built in a day…it wasn’t destroyed in a day either. And there were several, several people involved in each process.
Ausdaddy
Active Member
Or did you choose poorly? :lol:
jt04
Well-Known Member
Here is a blurb from Jim Hill Media giving a small bit of info on the person in question. Sounds like someone who has paid his dues.....
"To be fair, I guess I should point out that Mr. Holmes actually began his career with the Walt Disney Company 36 years ago as a ride operator at WDW's Magic Kingdom. And given that Phil supposedly spent many happy hours working at the Haunted Mansion ... Well, I guess you can understand why this longtime Disney World cast member might have a sentimental attachment to the original version of the Mansion and wouldn't want to see that dark ride ruined by having Tim Burton's creepy characters take over that Liberty Square attraction for four months out of every year.
Mind you, Mr. Holmes wasn't so emotionally attached to the original version of the Haunted Mansion that he wouldn't then allow the Imagineers to make other changes to this much beloved dark ride. Which we'll discuss in greater detail"
"To be fair, I guess I should point out that Mr. Holmes actually began his career with the Walt Disney Company 36 years ago as a ride operator at WDW's Magic Kingdom. And given that Phil supposedly spent many happy hours working at the Haunted Mansion ... Well, I guess you can understand why this longtime Disney World cast member might have a sentimental attachment to the original version of the Mansion and wouldn't want to see that dark ride ruined by having Tim Burton's creepy characters take over that Liberty Square attraction for four months out of every year.
Mind you, Mr. Holmes wasn't so emotionally attached to the original version of the Haunted Mansion that he wouldn't then allow the Imagineers to make other changes to this much beloved dark ride. Which we'll discuss in greater detail"
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Exactly.
And if Holmes was involved in them, then what? We continue to watch MK get staler and staler?
I think the more accurate answer as to why he doesn't want the nightmare overlay is that in WDW you can't close the mansion for 4 months to have an alternative show. I think Phil is very much right to take that stance. The refurbishment to upgrade almost every element of the ride was a totally different scenario, and I think he was very right to go right ahead with that one.
Can you give me a list of the cuts that you know Phil Holmes was responsible for?
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Well then...Perhaps there is good reason to doubt that he is the cause for some of MK's problems.:wave:
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Not a list, but I know of a few..Space Mountain, for one. I think HM was supposed to be a bit more in depth. And shouldn't TLM be breaking ground this year?
jt04
Well-Known Member
My only reason for posting this was to show he has been there a long time, worked his way up and obviously cares about the classics. The overlay makes sense at DL but certainly not at the MK IMO.
I think the only area he may have missed the mark is the overall TL theme and backstory but the rumor is they are working on that problem.
And the annual Castle Lights show just about makes up for the Laugh Floor. :lol:
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Agreed and agreed.:lol:
I actually don't mind MILF.
lookaroun) It's a well put together show but in the wrong part of the park. Pixar place would be a amazing home to it.
You don't really know those though do you. You wern't in the meetings, or havn't seen the paperwork. So this really means that you don't know if any of those things were attributable to Phil. I'm not trying to single you out, but you really have to be careful about what you read on the internet. Taking stuff that may very well be false, and then wishing for someone to be removed from their job because of it just isn't right in my opinion. If you have solid facts to back things up it's different, but basing everything on speculation and rumor on forums is not right.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Alot of crap has happened to MK in the last 10-15 years. I don't need anyone online to tell me what has and what has not worked (figuratively and literally). It's hard to turn a blind eye to certain things that have been and have not been done during this time. I'm not going to rant about light bulbs, but it's hard to blame the current economy for how poorly UNM was written in 1998, how Pooh here is a shallow imitation of his Tokyo counterpart, how outdated CoP is (Laserdiscs stop begin made in the US in 2000), what was dirty and broken about Country Bears, why we still have the same parade etc.
That begin said, I'd like to know who is responsible for this lack of care (there's alot to look after I know, but it got done in the past and I don't see why it can't be done now like other Disney resorts) regarding MK. Phil may be a pawn of Jay but I'd like to know someone has the guts to say, this may not work. It's a harsh business climate and that's what probably scares people into not making the best decisions but I just wished more would take an intrest like Matt did and John has for Disneyland.
That begin said, I'd like to know who is responsible for this lack of care (there's alot to look after I know, but it got done in the past and I don't see why it can't be done now like other Disney resorts) regarding MK. Phil may be a pawn of Jay but I'd like to know someone has the guts to say, this may not work. It's a harsh business climate and that's what probably scares people into not making the best decisions but I just wished more would take an intrest like Matt did and John has for Disneyland.
Timmay
Well-Known Member
Big if...isn't it? I don't think many of us actually know to what extent the VP has in making the park "stale" (that term itself being subjective).
I am not saying I know one way or another, but the park seems to me to be pretty successful overall, being number 1 on the attendance hit parade for how long now? I know attendance isn't everything, but it is at the top of the list.
SirGoofy
Member
I'm sorry. I don't care if it's insensitive, but if you don't do a good job, you should be fired. Regardless of the economic climate.
And yes, there has been sadness over the loss of middle managers, but the ones I've mourned leaving didn't deserve to go. 3 managers from my area lost their jobs, and they are 3 of the better managers I've encountered there.
And Steve, I can list a few cuts I know he had a hand in:
1) Pirates didn't get a lot of stuff that was originally planned
2)Jungle Cruise's rehab last year was supposed to be a LOT bigger originally.
Matpez
Well-Known Member
There is no way 1 individual is personally responsible for any of this... do you think Jim MacPhee wanted to open SSE when it wasn't done? Do you think he personally believes that JIIw/F is the best they can do? Probably not, but some of these and other decisions are made by teams who study and do research. The input of the VP alone is not enough to sway an entire company to do anything really big, expensive or different.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
It's not that simple. Leadership is not black and white, nor is responsibility for good or bad decisions.
Because we don't know all of the information he has access to (I would guess we have a very small fraction) we don't know how one decision affects another.
Say, hypothetically, Space Mountain's refurb budget got slashed from 10 million to 1 million (just numbers for ease of math). That is all information we are supplied on this board, because we don't know that all the HVACs are pushing 30 years old and need to be replaced in MK, because the folks that work in that "department" don't post here.
To us it looks like Holmes is a ogre who only cares about money and making babies cry, in reality there was a whole other issue that we are not aware of.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Well said.
It is a big if.However the possibility exists. Stale...? Just look at the post above you. Meanwhile DL has updates and refurbs.
As for attendance, yes, it IS number one. But IMHO, I think that's based on their PAST performance, reputation and location. You have 3 other parks and outside of WDW, a host of other venues. You also have the Disney name attached to it. I wonder what it would be without that. A hypothetical that will never happen, of course, but it is interesting to think about.
SirGoofy
Member
You sir, would be a good company man.
While Disney should look out for itself and its profits, the company holds itself to a higher standard. A standard that is greatly lacking in WDW now.
When I was training to become a CM, the "Keys to the Kingdom" were beat mercilessly over my head, and the #1, super important, all-ruling key is "Show trumps Efficiency".
Personally, it makes it really hard to a regular CM to follow these keys when management completely ignores its most important one. Many of the rides are despicable compared to the way they should be, and don't think guests don't notice.
THAT is the biggest problem I have with what is going on today in the parks. If this company want's to hold itself to the standard it does, then it should follow its own rules.