Revenge Vacation: Only Actual Data Need Apply

[Jrb1979]

Reading this thread reminds of what the original CEO of Costco said pay your employees well and they will be happy to work for you.

I've been working there for over 12 years and I couldn't be more happier. They pay extremely well for a retail chain. It does show if you pay your employees well they will want to work for you.

 

[Heppenheimer]

"Revenge travel" sounds like traveling out of spite. Wouldn't "rebound travel" be a better term?

Anecdotally, I'm headed to Ocean City, NJ in a few weeks. I contacted the usual realtor when the summer house rentals opened up after the new year ("bounce backs" get priority of first refusal up until new years), and I could only find one opening in the area and time I wanted, whereas usually at that time you have multiple options. So, either lots of people are visiting this year, or the other possibility that exists that many people in the catchment area for the Jersey shore (PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, DC) are still avoiding vacations that involve air travel and a lot of confined indoor spaces. I think its probably a little bit of both.

 

[Jrb1979]

"Revenge travel" sounds like traveling out of spite. Wouldn't "rebound travel" be a better term?

Anecdotally, I'm headed to Ocean City, NJ in a few weeks. I contacted the usual realtor when the summer house rentals opened up after the new year ("bounce backs" get priority of first refusal up until new years), and I could only find one opening in the area and time I wanted, whereas usually at that time you have multiple options. So, either lots of people are visiting this year, or the other possibility that exists that many people in the catchment area for the Jersey shore (PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, DC) are still avoiding vacations that involve air travel and a lot of confined indoor spaces. I think its probably a little bit of both.

I think a big part of the reason of people taking local vacations instead of ones that involves Air travel is cost. Even my local amusement park is busier then it ever has been. Many Canadians are staying closer to home due to costs.

 

[Chi84]

I find it interesting that the locally owned coffee shops and restaurants that I frequent seem to be doing fine. They are always sfully staffed with friendly and professional employees.

Meanwhile many of the chain restaurants always have a “shortage” of workers.

Not sure what the secret is... more pay? Better work environment?

That's not what I'm seeing at all. Some of our locally owned coffee shops and restaurants don't have the resources to compete with the chains, especially in terms of flexibility in working hours which employees want more than ever now. They've lost employees and are having a tough time replacing them. I don't ever remember chain restaurants advertising for workers the way they have been since COVID hit.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I'm sure some are doing this. But what seems to have happened where I live is that a lot of people in the lower paying jobs used the COVID disruption to change jobs and find better positions. Virtually every grocery store, restaurant, hotel, etc. has a sign out front saying "hiring at all positions."

Our favorite quick service restaurant is still serving a limited menu because they are having trouble finding help. The last time we were there, one of the managers said, "I wish people would decide to start working again." It's not always about greed and bad intentions. Many businesses are trying to get back to previous customer service levels, but labor and supply shortages are still a very real thing.

Labor and supply shortages are absolutely a real thing and it does result in less of a product or service, and companies can charge more and make more money with less investment and people.

Now I realize why Disney implemented park pass reservations.

 

[eliza61nyc]

"Revenge travel" sounds like traveling out of spite. Wouldn't "rebound travel" be a better term?

Anecdotally, I'm headed to Ocean City, NJ in a few weeks. I contacted the usual realtor when the summer house rentals opened up after the new year ("bounce backs" get priority of first refusal up until new years), and I could only find one opening in the area and time I wanted, whereas usually at that time you have multiple options. So, either lots of people are visiting this year, or the other possibility that exists that many people in the catchment area for the Jersey shore (PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, DC) are still avoiding vacations that involve air travel and a lot of confined indoor spaces. I think its probably a little bit of both.

I was there yesterday and as expected it was mobbed (I drove down just for the day). I used berger realty and didn't have too much of an issue getting a rental for my week but wow the prices were definitely up.
I do think folks are rethinking air travel especially since they lifted the mask mandate on planes.

If there is such a thing as revenge travel, I think we are at the end of it. It will be interesting next year what excuses will be given if people are still going to Disney.

 

[celluloid]

If this actually was a thing, Disney would find out and intentionally plan to close the theme parks for extended downtimes to create the increased demand later with the same or less operating cost.

 

[dreday3]

"Revenge travel" sounds like traveling out of spite. Wouldn't "rebound travel" be a better term?

Anecdotally, I'm headed to Ocean City, NJ in a few weeks. I contacted the usual realtor when the summer house rentals opened up after the new year ("bounce backs" get priority of first refusal up until new years), and I could only find one opening in the area and time I wanted, whereas usually at that time you have multiple options. So, either lots of people are visiting this year, or the other possibility that exists that many people in the catchment area for the Jersey shore (PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, DC) are still avoiding vacations that involve air travel and a lot of confined indoor spaces. I think its probably a little bit of both.

I agree. We aren't traveling out of revenge, we are just making up for the trips we missed.

But honestly, no travel this year because next year we are doing WDW (our big 50 b-days!), a long weekend in Dollywood and a hopefully a Celebrity cruise (that may wait until 2024). I picked up an additional part-time job (20 hours a week) to make up for loss of money during Covid. It's going well so far (knock wood) so I'm calling it "Reward Travel".

I'm lucky in the fact we don't drive very often (remote work 3 days a week and then CTA the other 2) and we only have 2 human mouths to feed and one cat. A very expensive cat! So while I see the inflation and rising gas costs, we are able to budget around it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

"Revenge travel" sounds like traveling out of spite. Wouldn't "rebound travel" be a better term?

Anecdotally, I'm headed to Ocean City, NJ in a few weeks. I contacted the usual realtor when the summer house rentals opened up after the new year ("bounce backs" get priority of first refusal up until new years), and I could only find one opening in the area and time I wanted, whereas usually at that time you have multiple options. So, either lots of people are visiting this year, or the other possibility that exists that many people in the catchment area for the Jersey shore (PA, NY, NJ, DE, MD, VA, DC) are still avoiding vacations that involve air travel and a lot of confined indoor spaces. I think its probably a little bit of both.

“Yes” to Piccini and Crazy Susan Cookies

“No” To manco manco

Blech

That's not what I'm seeing at all. Some of our locally owned coffee shops and restaurants don't have the resources to compete with the chains, especially in terms of flexibility in working hours which employees want more than ever now. They've lost employees and are having a tough time replacing them. I don't ever remember chain restaurants advertising for workers the way they have been since COVID hit.

Chains can take the hit for hirer labor over locals in many markets…typically more urban/Surburban with dense population and high demand for labor.

 

[jloucks]

They also had their CP/IP “binkies” yanked

CP/IP? Commercial Property Intellectual Property? ...that didn't seem to quite fit.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

CP/IP? Commercial Property Intellectual Property? ...that didn't seem to quite fit.

College program
International program

 

[Chi84]

Labor and supply shortages are absolutely a real thing and it does result in less of a product or service, and companies can charge more and make more money with less investment and people.

Now I realize why Disney implemented park pass reservations.

It makes sense to implement park pass reservations if you are dealing with fewer employees than you need and the elimination of FP+, which gave Disney some idea and degree of control over where people would be on any given day. I'm sure there are businesses taking advantage of labor shortages, but there are also many trying to hire and train people to provide better service for their customers.

Disney has made many greedy and baffling moves over the past couple of years, not all of which are attributable to COVID - paid fast pass was coming regardless, but elimination of DME, charging for resort parking, ever-increasing "nickel and diming," and some of the others are short-sighted moves attributable to bad management.

If you go through these threads, you will see people who predicted that trams, fireworks, parades, and all manner of things would never return because WDW is filling the parks without them. (And when they did return, it wasn't fast enough or good enough for reasons that have nothing to do with labor/supply shortages.) But those things are returning. Some people are claiming that Disney doesn't care how badly Genie+ is being received by guests as long as they keep buying. That doesn't seem to be true either. Businesses are neither perfect nor evil; it will be interesting to see where WDW lands in a couple of years. I'm hoping they see the writing on the wall and go back to putting customer satisfaction front and center, but I'm doubtful at this point.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

More people are flying of course. But there are also less flights. I do think with Disney revenge travel was built in as people have DVC points to spend, same with all those time shares out there.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It makes sense to implement park pass reservations if you are dealing with fewer employees than you need and the elimination of FP+, which gave Disney some idea and degree of control over where people would be on any given day. I'm sure there are businesses taking advantage of labor shortages, but there are also many trying to hire and train people to provide better service for their customers.

Disney has made many greedy and baffling moves over the past couple of years, not all of which are attributable to COVID - paid fast pass was coming regardless, but elimination of DME, charging for resort parking, ever-increasing "nickel and diming," and some of the others are short-sighted moves attributable to bad management.

If you go through these threads, you will see people who predicted that trams, fireworks, parades, and all manner of things would never return because WDW is filling the parks without them. (And when they did return, it wasn't fast enough or good enough for reasons that have nothing to do with labor/supply shortages.) But those things are returning. Some people are claiming that Disney doesn't care how badly Genie+ is being received by guests as long as they keep buying. That doesn't seem to be true either. Businesses are neither perfect nor evil; it will be interesting to see where WDW lands in a couple of years. I'm hoping they see the writing on the wall and go back to putting customer satisfaction front and center, but I'm doubtful at this point.

The market is always right and people are intelligent…so none of it matters, does it?

 

[jloucks]

because WDW is filling the parks without them.

So long as this happens, is there really a problem?

Not from an Disney economic standpoint.

At least, not a simple problem. I made the argument before that alienating higher spenders with a bottom tier experience could resort in less money intake overall, but based on Disney decisions I must be wrong. They are bringing their C game on without even trying to hide it.

 

[HouCuseChickie]

This is just one sector of travel in the US, but it's one I monitor from time to time due to personal interest. The US National Park system has been experiencing massive spikes, but it's in certain places.

Visitation Numbers (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

The overall visitation numbers in 2020 and 2021 are noticeably down from 2019, but these figures include all properties. When we start focusing on specific national parks, we start seeing a different picture.

Take Yellowstone for example...

Yellowstone 2021 visitation statistics - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

We were there in 2018 when visitation figures were 4,115,000. We were there again last summer when visitation numbers were 4,860,537. It's also important to note that we saw tons of foreign tour groups (mainly China and Thailand) when we were there in 2018, but 2021 had none of that...at least not to the point that it was noticeable.

Other parks like Arches, Zion, Glacier, Yosemite, Rocky Mountain, and Carlsbad Caverns have seen such massive spikes in attendance that reservation systems had to be implemented. We went to Arches in 2019 when visitation totaled 1,659,702. We drove right in, never waited in lines at the entrance and parking was plentiful. Fast forward to 2021 and they saw 1,806,865 and everything in the park and around Moab, UT was a madhouse.
https://irma.nps.gov/STATS/SSRSRepo...itation (1904 - Last Calendar Year)?Park=ARCH

Yellowstone last summer didn't feel any more crowded than normal, but others begged to differ. We also went to Glacier, which even with reservations seemed pretty crowded. Everything around Zion was also packed and we saw quite a few angry tourists storm away from the Carlsbad Cavern ticketing counter when they learned they needed to book separate cavern reservations in advance and that everything was sold out. We may be popping into Rocky Mountain this summer, so I have reservations just to be safe.

Hawaii is another one. I saw numerous friends hit the islands this year. Some, who hadn't done a big vacation since summer or holiday break 2019, had 2 years+ of vacation budget saved up and splurged big. While some of this is to be attributed to how the island has been opening up...you can see the big difference in visit numbers between 2021 and 2022.

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.hawaii.gov%2Fdbedt%2Fvisitor%2Ftourism%2F2022%2FApr%25202022.xlsx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

Is it revenge travel? Is it just US citizens looking for domestic wow-factor travel options that seemed safer (i.e. lots of nature and outdoors vs. being cooped up inside)? Is it just because it "can" be done in a more budget friendly manner (all hinges on how you get there, where you stay, where you dine, and activities you book)? And are other countries/parts of the world seeing similar upticks with their own nature/outdoorsy domestic travel options? I really don't know, but the majority of these stats do point to real surges in travel.

 

[Heppenheimer]

I was there yesterday and as expected it was mobbed (I drove down just for the day). I used berger realty and didn't have too much of an issue getting a rental for my week but wow the prices were definitely up.
I do think folks are rethinking air travel especially since they lifted the mask mandate on planes.

If there is such a thing as revenge travel, I think we are at the end of it. It will be interesting next year what excuses will be given if people are still going to Disney.

I found with Marr, there's plenty of moderately priced rental properties. However, almost all of them were fully booked for the time I wanted to visit. I did find something available in my price range, but it was a little further south than I usually prefer.

The boardwalk looked pretty packed on the videos I saw. Did it seem like staffing was an issue anywhere? I know they rely on a lot of seasonal labor from eastern Europe and who knows how much that lifeline may have been disrupted by COVID.

'

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I have no data, but I was watching the MickeyViews YouTube. It was mid week, middle of the day, last week and this shows a mobbed MK over by pirates. There’s a lot of folks clogging the walk ways. This could be revenge travel or the failed Genie system:
View attachment 642330

Dang that looks not fun

 

[Heppenheimer]

This is just one sector of travel in the US, but it's one I monitor from time to time due to personal interest. The US National Park system has been experiencing massive spikes, but it's in certain places.

Visitation Numbers (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

The overall visitation numbers in 2020 and 2021 are noticeably down from 2019, but these figures include all properties. When we start focusing on specific national parks, we start seeing a different picture.

Take Yellowstone for example...

Yellowstone 2021 visitation statistics - Yellowstone National Park (U.S. National Park Service)

www.nps.gov

We were there in 2018 when visitation figures were 4,115,000. We were there again last summer when visitation numbers were 4,860,537. It's also important to note that we saw tons of foreign tour groups (mainly China and Thailand) when we were there in 2018, but 2021 had none of that...at least not to the point that it was noticeable.

Other parks like Arches, Zion, Glacier, Yosemite, Rocky Mountain, and Carlsbad Caverns have seen such massive spikes in attendance that reservation systems had to be implemented. We went to Arches in 2019 when visitation totaled 1,659,702. We drove right in, never waited in lines at the entrance and parking was plentiful. Fast forward to 2021 and they saw 1,806,865 and everything in the park and around Moab, UT was a madhouse.
https://irma.nps.gov/STATS/SSRSReports/Park Specific Reports/Annual Park Recreation Visitation (1904 - Last Calendar Year)?Park=ARCH

Yellowstone last summer didn't feel any more crowded than normal, but others begged to differ. We also went to Glacier, which even with reservations seemed pretty crowded. Everything around Zion was also packed and we saw quite a few angry tourists storm away from the Carlsbad Cavern ticketing counter when they learned they needed to book separate cavern reservations in advance and that everything was sold out. We may be popping into Rocky Mountain this summer, so I have reservations just to be safe.

Hawaii is another one. I saw numerous friends hit the islands this year. Some, who hadn't done a big vacation since summer or holiday break 2019, had 2 years+ of vacation budget saved up and splurged big. While some of this is to be attributed to how the island has been opening up...you can see the big difference in visit numbers between 2021 and 2022.

https://view.officeapps.live.com/op/view.aspx?src=https%3A%2F%2Ffiles.hawaii.gov%2Fdbedt%2Fvisitor%2Ftourism%2F2022%2FApr%25202022.xlsx&wdOrigin=BROWSELINK

Is it revenge travel? Is it just US citizens looking for domestic wow-factor travel options that seemed safer (i.e. lots of nature and outdoors vs. being cooped up inside)? Is it just because it "can" be done in a more budget friendly manner (all hinges on how you get there, where you stay, where you dine, and activities you book)? And are other countries/parts of the world seeing similar upticks with their own nature/outdoorsy domestic travel options? I really don't know, but the majority of these stats do point to real surges in travel.

Acadia was mobbed last summer. We weren't really planning to lounge on the beach there, but we at least wanted to walk down to it and dip our feet in the water. Nope. The parking lot was filled, and the cars were lined up along the side of the road for about a half mile in both directions.

And are other countries/parts of the world seeing similar upticks with their own nature/outdoorsy domestic travel options.
This is only one single data point, but my wife's cousin, who works at a hotel in the Tyrolean Alps, told us that her place is booked pretty solidly for the summer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Dang that looks not fun

There’s no way it CAN be if you take the dogma out of it…

All the components of the park were built/ordered over time as attendance grew. It was all crowd flow based. 50 years of history.

You simply cannot cut or reduce things and not see effects. A big one? I bet they know their mobile ordering push has made crowd flow worse…maybe not the labor or overhead cost…but how people eat and what time they use…

Just as rhe much vaunted parades changed crowd habits.

You can’t put the genie (pun) back in the bottle without obvious deficiencies showing…