Reservation expansion

[Jrb1979]

lets for arguments sake say it is going to cost 2 billion to start making an impact.... they by your admission are generating say around 300mm annually from charging for Genie/FP etc how long before you truly see a ROI? not that long that these rides/expansions start paying for themselves and that doesnt factor in other revenue streams that should be earmarked for park expansion etc.... they have cash on hand granted im sure plenty of debt as well... point im trying to make is they can literally do this and in theory cost them nothing,,,, they just refuse and dont care imo.

I don't think it's so much they don't care. In their mind if they can't market it as the next big thing, then it's not worth adding to the parks.

I am a big fan of Seaworld and they have a pay one price, eat all day, meal plan now.
I especially like Seaworld at Christmas time.

We used to call our visits to Seaworld "Our vacation from the MOBS"
Not sure if that will be the case going forward as folks realize how good of a time you can have at Seaworld.

It's even better if you add in Busch Gardens to your SeaWorld ticket.

 

[mightynine]

Today is a perfect example of Park Pass losing them potential revenue dollars. The Magic Kingdom crowds are quite pleasant this morning. You'd be surprised to learn that no reservations were available for additional resort guests. Meaning, the thousands of resort guests who may have wanted to visit the Magic Kingdom this morning may have stayed in their room or done some other low cost activity until they could use their EPCOT reservation simply to hop to MK.

Somehow, I can't find myself to be too heartbroken for The Walt Disney Company here.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

I am a big fan of Seaworld and they have a pay one price, eat all day, meal plan now.
I especially like Seaworld at Christmas time.

We used to call our visits to Seaworld "Our vacation from the MOBS"
Not sure if that will be the case going forward as folks realize how good of a time you can have at Seaworld.

The difference between these theme parks isn't necessarily "having a good time." Historically, Disney are experts in making their place of business feel like home. The proof of this is how upset people are at these changes; they quite literally feel violated. As if someone changed the color of paint in their bedroom without permission. That's the actual Magic® that the competitors have failed to replicate. The issue is, Disney is jeopardizing their greatest asset/tool with these changes.

 

[Touchdown]

Or they need to do more entertainment, imagine a production of Tangled at MK in a new theatre space produced on the level of the Hyperion shows, then also imagine a PatF show at DHS. Both in theatres that can seat 2,000 people. Then imagine those 2,000 people disappearing from other queues 3-4 times a day for an hour. I bet AK is benefiting emmensely from Nemo is being back.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Or they need to do more entertainment, imagine a production of Tangled at MK in a new theatre space produced on the level of the Hyperion shows, then also imagine a PatF show at DHS. Both in theatres that can seat 2,000 people. Then imagine those 2,000 people disappearing from other queues 3-4 times a day for an hour. I bet AK is benefiting emmensely from Nemo is being back.

Bingo.

 

[crazy4disney]

I don't think it's so much they don't care. In their mind if they can't market it as the next big thing, then it's not worth adding to the parks.


It's even better if you add in Busch Gardens to your SeaWorld ticket.

Dont care is a stretch maybe but lets face it over the last 5-10 years what has this company actually done to prove they actually care about the customer?!?

 

[DHSfanatic]

I know…how about a Park Hopper with no guarantees and a Park Hopper+ that comes WITH guarantees for just $200/day? $189/day if staying on-site. You’re welcome.

Don't give them ideas!

 

[GhostHost1000]

Dont care is a stretch maybe but lets face it over the last 5-10 years what has this company actually done to prove they actually care about the customer?!?

Genie+?

Oh wait…

 

[Hauntedmansionstiff]

This “issue” and their use of Park Pass to “solve” it is vastly overstated (and is really their number one lie as to why reservations exist). Reservations are simply to ensure demand doesn’t exceed a level that they can handle while they restore staffing levels specifically at the gate and in quick service restaurants.

They’ve operated their theme parks for 50+ years without such granular data. Park Pass data is too volatile to reliably schedule CMs in a timely fashion.

CMs aren’t robots. They are people with specific schedules and trained to a specific need. The ability to move them around so freely is also vastly overstated. In fact, there’s no proof they do this at all because of Park Pass.

All the gates, restaurants, quick service options, shops need CMs regardless of if one park is a little busier than the other. What CMs are we suggesting they move to another park? Those roles all need to be filled on slow days and busy days. Even on Disney’s “slow” days, every park is still mobbed. There’s no significant slow time at any park that would warrant such dynamic scheduling.

Of course that will change somewhat when the CP workers spend their training soon. Staffing levels will finally increase and scheduling should become easier.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Of course but when they add, the crowds don't grow proportionally; the grow beyond proportion. Everything they've done in the last 10 years has grown crowds disproportionally to the capacity added. It's literally making the problem worse.

True, but Disney has brought that on themselves by pretty much building only E Ticket attractions. If they would add 2 or 3 B and C level rides to each park that are people eaters, that wouldn't likely draw more people, but spread them out better.

 

[Hauntedmansionstiff]

YES. When we used parkhoppers prior to the 2pm limit, we were typically arriving at Park 1* at rope drop and hopping elsewhere by 11am, often with a lunch reservation waiting in Park 2. We'd leave Park 2 after a couple of hours, go back to the hotel for a break, and head out to Park 3 for dinner and the rest of the evening. (*Granted, Park 1 was often a "morning EMH" park, back in the days when that amenity was offered, and Park 3 was often the "evening EMH" park. Now that the morning "perk" is 30 minutes at every park for onsite guests, and evening extra hours are only for deluxes and only for 2 of the parks, there's very little touring advantage to be had by hopping, period, and thus, less need for parkhopper tickets at all.)

Last time we went, the 2pm limit was in place, and we tried to use parkhoppers anyway. It was a giant pain in the rear end. We were nearly always done with our first park long before that time, and were left twiddling our thumbs back at the hotel for a couple extra hours every day. I think parkhoppers are pretty much a waste of money now. If I was planning a WDW trip for my family of 4 at present (which I'm not), I'd stick to standard, 1-park-per-day tickets: coincidentally, the money I'd save would be sufficient to pay for the renewal of my Universal 2-park annual pass, with no need for reservations, and unlimited hopping.

Unfortunately the only way to accomplish this today is a Club 33 membership

 

[Disney Glimpses]

@Touchdown hit it on the nose. They need more entertainment. Additional amphitheaters. Shows that are relatively inexpensive to build and run that can eat 1,000+ people an hour each.

 

[Hauntedmansionstiff]

I’m curious how much variation there is in staffing on less crowded days vs crowded days. Obviously things like transportation (bus drivers) would be impacted but that can be known mostly based on resort occupancy…. but for other park cast members, how does that work exactly and where? Less ride attendants, dining crew, cleanup crews, etc?

I know that many are sent home and dont get hours if their areas are dead. That was this winter/spring. With CP workers coming soon I imagine staffing will be tweaked to take advantage of cheaper labor.

 

[Tha Realest]

I'm not sure that's true just looking at the numbers. Attendance grows yearly even when they build nothing. It grows a bit more when they do add something, but generally not enough to outweigh the added capacity. I think the increase after Pandora at AK was around 8k a day, which probably resulted in a very small overall increase over the added capacity, but it's likely that a significant portion of that number is people now going to AK who didn't go before, as opposed to drawing new visitors to WDW overall.

I don't think Galaxy's Edge bumped up DHS attendance enough to outweigh the capacity either, with the caveat that Rise has to actually be working.

It also has to be more than just attractions -- they need additions that also add more retail and dining capacity.

IIRC, they either had lower attendance, or still flatlined, with the additions of SW:GE. So, in some minds, they did not get a ROI for the massive cost of these lands.

 

[correcaminos]

I would guess that no one else does that (degrading of regulars) because the other places aren't running at capacity most of the year. Disney doesn't need more traffic, so what they're left with is shaping that traffic to deliver the biggest return.

I'm speculating a lot on what they're doing any why, so this is just a hypothesis... which seems to fit what they're doing. I would guess allowing people to charge everything to their magic bands and have all that account information per person, they have a pretty good idea of the ideal guest profile and will work to keep them spending money, and to freely alienate those who aren't as... ideal.

Again, I think they're mostly focused on maximizing $/warm body in the parks, their highly constrained resource.

Honestly I am tired of people justifying what Disney does. When we had limitations at our local areas during pandemic, guess who got first dibs? The ones who regularly feed them money. Saying that no one else where I live runs at capacity is a fallacy. I live in places with major amusement parks that have indeed hit capacity at points. I won't give them a pass on this.

Given I don't use my magic band for everything - in fact I go without them now, I'm not sure your hypothesis is correct. I know they have profiles. I also know that ing off guests is not the way to go. They really are on the verge of people not renewing and selling off DVC because of their antics.

For me it isn't about money as much to buy things, but how they treat people. I'll keep doing APs because it allows me to go on a whim whether or not financially it is the best option for all in the family. However, making use of those APs now is a heck of a lot less fun than it was 5 years ago.

 

[DHSfanatic]

I'm puzzled by this move. We were there for 10 days last Christmas and never encountered any problems with a post-2 pm park being full. I only read the boards casually but I can't recall people posting that they had run into this problem even during busy times.

I echo the point made by many people that a WDW trip has gotten crazy complicated compared to how it was. One of my adult sons was telling me that he had a friend who made a trip last summer without doing any prep--just booked a hotel reservation and bought tickets. He and his wife had the experience you might expect--went on only a few rides given the long standby waits and had to settle for eating mostly counter service.

I'll hazard a guess that's an experience that many first-timers have had and that many of them won't return.

 

[Hauntedmansionstiff]

Basically DVC and Deluxe guests will end up with the benefits again. The rest of the plebs are left with reservations.

DVC members are already a sunk cost. I imagine it will be cash paying resort guests that will get priority. AP and DVC will continually get marginalized going forward. Disney has found that new customer acquisition is so much cheaper than retaining customers. For every AP not renewing there is a cash paying customer waiting to take that slot. AP and DVC will be used more as a capping off and filler on lighter days.

 

[Jrb1979]

@Touchdown hit it on the nose. They need more entertainment. Additional amphitheaters. Shows that are relatively inexpensive to build and run that can eat 1,000+ people an hour each.

I agree with that. Keeps more people out of ride queues so I can ride more. I could care less about the shows as my family never watches them. If it keeps people away from rides it's a bonus for us.

 

[bhg469]

I agree with that. Keeps more people out of ride queues so I can ride more. I could care less about the shows as my family never watches them. If it keeps people away from rides it's a bonus for us.

The queues themselves eat people too.. People avoiding those sort of makes a big impact on people in the parks looking for more to do.

 

[correcaminos]

Unfortunately the only way to accomplish this today is a Club 33 membership

Or a VIP tour. We got 3 parks in by 10 am.

The difference between these theme parks isn't necessarily "having a good time." Historically, Disney are experts in making their place of business feel like home. The proof of this is how upset people are at these changes; they quite literally feel violated. As if someone changed the color of paint in their bedroom without permission. That's the actual Magic® that the competitors have failed to replicate. The issue is, Disney is jeopardizing their greatest asset/tool with these changes.

bingo

DVC members are already a sunk cost. I imagine it will be cash paying resort guests that will get priority. AP and DVC will continually get marginalized going forward. Disney has found that new customer acquisition is so much cheaper than retaining customers. For every AP not renewing there is a cash paying customer waiting to take that slot. AP and DVC will be used more as a capping off and filler on lighter days.

No they are not sunk costs. They keep resorts afloat whether the members use the points or not. If it were a sunk cost they wouldn't bother adding more DVC.