Reservation expansion

[GhostHost1000]

True, but APs still spend significant less than other guests. The other thing at play is that by offering equal access and allowing crowds to increase to out of control levels, low revenue guests would be diminishing the experience for high revenue guests. I personally hope people cancel their APs in droves if this approach proves to be too restrictive.

If Disney would quit sitting on their hands and just build attractions for capacity they wouldn’t need to push out the lesser spenders and welcome all

I know I’m preaching to the choir here but dang how do they not see the parks and lack of offerings vs crowds as a big issue

 

[Disney Glimpses]

If Disney would quit sitting on their hands and just build attractions for capacity they wouldn’t need to push out the lesser spenders and welcome all

I know I’m preaching to the choir here but dang how do they not see the parks and lack of offerings vs crowds as a big issue

Because adding capacity isn't free and when they add capacity, they need to add guests to pay for it. To add significant capacity at all 4 parks, they'd need to spend over $1 billion and then not increase the volume of guests. It would basically be a $1-2 billion investment to simply get the crowds down.

In reality, the only feasible alternative to this is decrease volume with price increases.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If Disney would quit sitting on their hands and just build attractions for capacity they wouldn’t need to push out the lesser spenders and welcome all

I know I’m preaching to the choir here but dang how do they not see the parks and lack of offerings vs crowds as a big issue

Building attractions costs MONEY. Disney would much rather TAKE MONEY FOR NOTHING such as Genie+

 

[Kingoglow]

Disney has become so nasty both from the top at the board level, down to how parks are managed into a communism state, its just not worth it or enjoyable anymore. Seaworld and the others have been a breath of fresh air. No stupid reservations needed, no phone required etc, merch unrestricted to more than 2 items, no 7am arrival requirement or whatever junk it is just to win a lottery to board a ride from a inferior app system etc..

That smacks of Socialism; America hates Socialism /sarcasm

 

[Coaster Lover]

If Disney would quit sitting on their hands and just build attractions for capacity they wouldn’t need to push out the lesser spenders and welcome all

Disney has chosen instead to invest in changes that directly make them money on a per guest basis (like Galactic Starcruiser and Genie+) as opposed to building attractions (which have the simple hope that guests will spend money when in the parks.)

 

[SteveAZee]

I'm not talking the every few years families who stay onsite and get G+ I'm talking off site day or two every 5-10 years and don't actually spend as much as the families you are saying.

I hold APs to a lot of locations. Sometimes I get my money's worth and sometimes I don't. This degrading of regulars is uncool at best. No where else does that. I know many AP holders and most spend quite a lot on food or buying stuff for others. They definitely spend way more than a family I know who is going for a day and bringing food to keep costs down.

I don't think AP holders for Disney are cheapskates as a whole. I think Disney treating onsite guests as they have with making them get park reservations is dumb. I just think making AP holders also mad and degrading what used to be seen as a positive is stupid. Especially since they raised prices so incredibly much the last 5 years. WDW isn't DLR and this would make it seem they miss that.

I would guess that no one else does that (degrading of regulars) because the other places aren't running at capacity most of the year. Disney doesn't need more traffic, so what they're left with is shaping that traffic to deliver the biggest return.

I'm speculating a lot on what they're doing any why, so this is just a hypothesis... which seems to fit what they're doing. I would guess allowing people to charge everything to their magic bands and have all that account information per person, they have a pretty good idea of the ideal guest profile and will work to keep them spending money, and to freely alienate those who aren't as... ideal.

Again, I think they're mostly focused on maximizing $/warm body in the parks, their highly constrained resource.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Because adding capacity isn't free and when they add capacity, they need to add guests to pay for it. To add significant capacity at all 4 parks, they'd need to spend over $1 billion and then not increase the volume of guests. It would basically be a $1-2 billion investment to simply get the crowds down.

In reality, the only feasible alternative to this is decrease volume with price increases.

If they are trying to keep people from getting in parks now with the park reservations or from everyone purchasing genie+, both of which could allow more money coming in, building new attractions could help offset that AND create a better experience for everyone

Decreasing volume with price increases is not a feasible option, it’s a lazy option (band-aid) only imo because they want to see how far they can suck money out of us pixie dusters before they have to do more to keep us coming back

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Decreasing volume with price increases is not a feasible option

I disagree. The Magic Kingdom is seeing 10,000 more guests per day than it did 10 years ago. That's an insane number of people. There is plenty of room for the price to increase to return crowd levels to where they were.

 

[GhostHost1000]

I disagree. The Magic Kingdom is seeing 10,000 more guests per day than it did 10 years ago. That's an insane number of people. There is plenty of room for the price to increase to return crowd levels to where they were.

Why go backwards and return crowds to what they were 10 years ago when you can expand, enable those extra guests, and welcome even more creating a better experience for everyone along with guests being more spread out and with more money coming in for Disney

 

[rwdavis2]

if tre8 it sounds like a staffing problem.

 

[bhg469]

Why go backwards and return crowds to what they were 10 years ago when you can expand, enable those extra guests, and welcome even more creating a better experience for everyone along with guests being more spread out and with more money coming in for Disney

Does Disney want to grow or just see how much money they can make off of suckers who will pay it

Why bother? Universal is building the park that will draw enough people away and lower crowds for them.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Why bother? Universal is building the park that will draw enough people away and lower crowds for them.

It’s almost like Disney is seriously blind and deaf

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Why go backwards and return crowds to what they were 10 years ago when you can expand, enable those extra guests, and welcome even more creating a better experience for everyone along with guests being more spread out and with more money coming in for Disney

Does Disney want to grow

Of course but when they add, the crowds don't grow proportionally; the grow beyond proportion. Everything they've done in the last 10 years has grown crowds disproportionally to the capacity added. It's literally making the problem worse.

 

[UNCgolf]

I disagree. The Magic Kingdom is seeing 10,000 more guests per day than it did 10 years ago. That's an insane number of people. There is plenty of room for the price to increase to return crowd levels to where they were.

The population of the United States (and the world) is also significantly higher too, though. That's something people frequently overlook in this discussion -- while the percentage has probably increased by a small amount, I doubt it's a significant one.

If the population of the US was 200 million, and 20 million visited WDW, that's 10% -- if the population is now 400 million, and 40m visited WDW, that's still just 10%. It's one of the reasons Disney needs to seriously invest in capacity, because the population isn't getting smaller. Their customer base is continually growing even if they do nothing.

There are just more people to visit now than there were 25 years ago regardless of anything else.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Of course but when they add, the crowds don't grow proportionally; the grow beyond proportion. Everything they've done in the last 10 years has grown crowds disproportionally to the capacity added. It's literally making the problem worse.

I don’t tie in what they’ve added drawing in more guests. Maybe with Star Wars land, but I don’t think more people are coming just because of Cosmic Rewind and Remy. More guests are just wanting to come and/or come back. Plus they keep adding resorts and selling DVC contracts as well. I think they are creating their own problem by not expanding more. Replacing existing attractions does not help, expanding options and footprint to spread people out will

 

[UNCgolf]

Of course but when they add, the crowds don't grow proportionally; the grow beyond proportion. Everything they've done in the last 10 years has grown crowds disproportionally to the capacity added. It's literally making the problem worse.

I'm not sure that's true just looking at the numbers. Attendance grows yearly even when they build nothing. It grows a bit more when they do add something, but generally not enough to outweigh the added capacity. I think the increase after Pandora at AK was around 8k a day, which probably resulted in a very small overall increase over the added capacity, but it's likely that a significant portion of that number is people now going to AK who didn't go before, as opposed to drawing new visitors to WDW overall.

I don't think Galaxy's Edge bumped up DHS attendance enough to outweigh the capacity either, with the caveat that Rise has to actually be working.

It also has to be more than just attractions -- they need additions that also add more retail and dining capacity.

 

[Jrb1979]

Of course but when they add, the crowds don't grow proportionally; the grow beyond proportion. Everything they've done in the last 10 years has grown crowds disproportionally to the capacity added. It's literally making the problem worse.

Yes and no. The problem I see is that when they do add a new attraction the majority of the time they make it an E-ticket level and market as so. What they need to be doing is 2 things. One being stop replacing an old ride with a new one and two, add in more C-level attractions.

 

[SteveAZee]

Of course but when they add, the crowds don't grow proportionally; the grow beyond proportion. Everything they've done in the last 10 years has grown crowds disproportionally to the capacity added. It's literally making the problem worse.

The crowds get worse regardless of what they add (or remove) from the parks. Adding attractions (I assume this is what people mean by adding capacity) is very expensive. The parks feel less crowded if people are standing in stores, lines, or seated in attractions or restaurants, and attractions are the most expensive thing to add. Worse, it seems that they're not interested in long form attractions any more that keep people entertained for 20 to 30 minutes (probably due to cost of maintenance), so long lines for 2 minute thrills is better than shorter lines for longer rides.

 

[crazy4disney]

Because adding capacity isn't free and when they add capacity, they need to add guests to pay for it. To add significant capacity at all 4 parks, they'd need to spend over $1 billion and then not increase the volume of guests. It would basically be a $1-2 billion investment to simply get the crowds down.

In reality, the only feasible alternative to this is decrease volume with price increases.

lets for arguments sake say it is going to cost 2 billion to start making an impact.... they by your admission are generating say around 300mm annually from charging for Genie/FP etc how long before you truly see a ROI? not that long that these rides/expansions start paying for themselves and that doesnt factor in other revenue streams that should be earmarked for park expansion etc.... they have cash on hand granted im sure plenty of debt as well... point im trying to make is they can literally do this and in theory cost them nothing,,,, they just refuse and dont care imo.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney has become so nasty both from the top at the board level, down to how parks are managed into a communism state, its just not worth it or enjoyable anymore. Seaworld and the others have been a breath of fresh air. No stupid reservations needed, no phone required etc, merch unrestricted to more than 2 items, no 7am arrival requirement or whatever junk it is just to win a lottery to board a ride from a inferior app system etc..

I am a big fan of Seaworld and they have a pay one price, eat all day, meal plan now.
I especially like Seaworld at Christmas time.

We used to call our visits to Seaworld "Our vacation from the MOBS"
Not sure if that will be the case going forward as folks realize how good of a time you can have at Seaworld.