News Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious

[marni1971]

You know, if I were running a business that had higher standards than my competitor, yet the sales volume was no different, that might lead me to conclude that customers did not really value the higher standards. Thus, I might lower my standards to achieve higher profit margins without sacrificing sales. Some customers might notice the difference, but I could offer sales on my higher prices to lure those customers back.

I know, not what many want to hear, but I wonder how long Walt would have held out to his higher standard when faced with the pressures of Wall Street. The only way to not feel that pressure is for a business to stay private, and be content with the lower profit margin.

And that’s the difference with the company of today. Or did Eisner/Wells have a magic formula to do both?

 

[disneyflush]

Ohhhh....I know the answer to this one!!! Pick me! Pick me!

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[brb1006]

The only way Frozen would look great in this show is if they have an Elsa animatronic that freezes the lagoon as she moves over it.

Or they could go for the Sorcery in the Sky approach.

 

[eliza61nyc]

And that’s the difference with the company of today. Or did Eisner/Wells have a magic formula to do both?

There maybe some truth to that. Certain stuff just happens once in a life time. Aretha franklin just died, there will never, ever be another singer like her, throw in some killer songwriters like Carole king and you had magic. Its not going to happen again but there are other variables.
1) different consumers. Call us tacky, low class whatever, the consumer today travels and spends differently.
2) different shareholders, again they are not the shareholders of 1970.
3) rose colored glasses

 

[brb1006]

And that’s the difference with the company of today. Or did Eisner/Wells have a magic formula to do both?

I will go with the Eisner/Wells era since they were actually a great team.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Really like this comment as it is refreshing.

After posting here and reading other people's posts over the years, I have always known that big changes to Epcot would evoke very strong emotion to those that grew up with the original iteration. Many that post here appreciate how brave WDW leadership was at that time to create a park that was geared more to an "adult" crowd and was endowed with messages and attractions geared to more physical or metaphysical concepts (energy, communication, imagination, motion, etc.). Of course, the "adults" could then wander the paths of World Showcase, imbibe and spend some cash.

I have NO issues with opinions from others on this site. We appreciate things the way our brains are wired. Some folks admire the original intent of Epcot and want those in charge to continue to adhere to that vision. Others - many others - like to go to Epcot because they have fun going there, and could really care less about the "big picture". Some want IP there and know that it won't hurt their impression of what that park "means to them". I don't think that anyone is wrong in their own right. I think that martin's videos of original Epcot attractions are amazingly well done. But to be honest, I wouldn't like that version of the park. For me, way too many long dark rides and not enough variety for me. But that is my opinion, and I don't begrudge the opinions of other people here.

There are some here that take this too seriously though. I don't post here as much anymore because these forums make me feel like my opinion for appreciating WDW or the direction it is headed, or the food, or use of IP, etc., is idiotic. There is a lot of passive agressive posts at times (and some that are pointedly direct). And it is a shame because I have really enjoyed these forums. They are some of the best available. I guess the overt negativity I read on here finally got to me.

I will most likely love the new nighttime show at Epcot. I loved the transformation of Disney Springs. I LOVE Pandora and think it is the best land at any park right now. My wife and I had a ton of fun at TSL on our last 2 trips. But these are my feelings and my opinions that I can give without diminishing (or in some cases personally attacking) the opinions and feelings of others.

Peace out.

...so what you’re saying is it’s a BAD time to talk about your hockey season??

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Sometimes you can say that one or two people did something no one else could have done.

Sometimes you have to acknowledge that one or two people did something no one else could have done the same way at any other time.

Business is constant adaptation (especially today vs. the recent past.) My business is doing fine, but if I tried to start my business today the way I started it 19 years ago, it wouldn't work. If I tried to tell someone else to start their business the way I started mine, they'd have to modify it or it simply would not work - because external conditions are not the same.

To be specific: It was the late 90's. Not a lot of people were familiar with or wanted to engage with eBay yet. (That time will never happen again.) eBay was a huge cash/slot machine. (That's over.) I was single. (That time will hopefully not happen again, or for a long time should my spouse pass away.) Gas was at least a dollar per gallon cheaper. (That's not likely to happen again.) Lots of music media lay dormant and ignored around the country. (Much of it has already been processed via ebay and other channels over the last 20 years, and if it sold again, the cost would be much, much higher.)

After many years in traditional retail management, I started selling music on eBay out of my apartment. I'd go to record stores, pawn shops, thrift shops, and garage sales, and purchased based on my knowledge of music and others' lack of knowledge. Eventually I quit my job and did that full time. I quickly exhausted the south Florida area, and couldn't maintain my level of business.

Long story short, my apartment building was sold to put up townhouses I couldn't afford, so before signing a new lease, I took a little drive around the country to look for inventory. That lasted over 4 years, until 2005. I went from town to town buying and selling, seeing the country, attending the Grammys, the Motown Museum, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, etc.

Eventually I came home and opened a record store, then expanded it, and then opened a second location.

If I tried to do that today, it would not be sustainable. I'd go broke before I got home. (Also, I'm married so that's not practical.)

So one way to look at that is I'm brilliant, look what I did. The more humble point of view is I was at the right place, right time.

If Walt was trying to build WDW today, he would have a very different experience than he did back then, that's all I'm saying. Eisner would face different challenges today vs. when he was running the show as well. Wall Street has come up harshly and has businesses doing backflips and definitely non-intuitive things (like when eBay had no reason to raise prices but did because they could, and there was a huge exodus of sellers to a site that wasn't doing so great with third party sales, called Amazon. The first few times I tried to sell on Amazon, it was a ghost town. Circumstances change.)

It's too easy to say, "Oh, just do this, just do that" in a vacuum without considering the costs and weighing them against the costs of routine maintenance, loan payments, investments in other locations, etc.

If the Imagineers are slacking, that's another story. If the biz side isn't listening to them, so is that. If they think they are making pronouncements on high and know better than their customers, that's hubris.

They are doing a balancing act. Every business, large and small, does it to some degree. The public eye of the internet is also a double-edged sword: easier than ever to get your message out, easier than ever for others to criticize. It used to be one disgruntled customer (right or wrong) might tell a few friends. Now they tell the world, and the cynical will just believe whatever they say (again, right or wrong.)

I hope shrinking the financial investment in Illuminations per night is not a primary motivating factor in this. I suspect it isn't, but it would be a bonus to the company if they saved a smidge per day on it. I'd certainly consider that if the end product was just as good.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Sometimes you can say that one or two people did something no one else could have done.

Sometimes you have to acknowledge that one or two people did something no one else could have done the same way at any other time.

Business is constant adaptation (especially today vs. the recent past.) My business is doing fine, but if I tried to start my business today the way I started it 19 years ago, it wouldn't work. If I tried to tell someone else to start their business the way I started mine, they'd have to modify it or it simply would not work - because external conditions are not the same.

To be specific: It was the late 90's. Not a lot of people were familiar with or wanted to engage with eBay yet. (That time will never happen again.) eBay was a huge cash/slot machine. (That's over.) I was single. (That time will hopefully not happen again, or for a long time should my spouse pass away.) Gas was at least a dollar per gallon cheaper. (That's not likely to happen again.) Lots of music media lay dormant and ignored around the country. (Much of it has already been processed via ebay and other channels over the last 20 years, and if it sold again, the cost would be much, much higher.)

After many years in traditional retail management, I started selling music on eBay out of my apartment. I'd go to record stores, pawn shops, thrift shops, and garage sales, and purchased based on my knowledge of music and others' lack of knowledge. Eventually I quit my job and did that full time. I quickly exhausted the south Florida area, and couldn't maintain my level of business.

Long story short, my apartment building was sold to put up townhouses I couldn't afford, so before signing a new lease, I took a little drive around the country to look for inventory. That lasted over 4 years, until 2005. I went from town to town buying and selling, seeing the country, attending the Grammys, the Motown Museum, the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, etc.

Eventually I came home and opened a record store, then expanded it, and then opened a second location.

If I tried to do that today, it would not be sustainable. I'd go broke before I got home. (Also, I'm married so that's not practical.)

So one way to look at that is I'm brilliant, look what I did. The more humble point of view is I was at the right place, right time.

If Walt was trying to build WDW today, he would have a very different experience than he did back then, that's all I'm saying. Eisner would face different challenges today vs. when he was running the show as well. Wall Street has come up harshly and has businesses doing backflips and definitely non-intuitive things (like when eBay had no reason to raise prices but did because they could, and there was a huge exodus of sellers to a site that wasn't doing so great with third party sales, called Amazon. The first few times I tried to sell on Amazon, it was a ghost town. Circumstances change.)

It's too easy to say, "Oh, just do this, just do that" in a vacuum without considering the costs and weighing them against the costs of routine maintenance, loan payments, investments in other locations, etc.

If the Imagineers are slacking, that's another story. If the biz side isn't listening to them, so is that. If they think they are making pronouncements on high and know better than their customers, that's hubris.

They are doing a balancing act. Every business, large and small, does it to some degree. The public eye of the internet is also a double-edged sword: easier than ever to get your message out, easier than ever for others to criticize. It used to be one disgruntled customer (right or wrong) might tell a few friends. Now they tell the world, and the cynical will just believe whatever they say (again, right or wrong.)

I hope shrinking the financial investment in Illuminations per night is not a primary motivating factor in this. I suspect it isn't, but it would be a bonus to the company if they saved a smidge per day on it. I'd certainly consider that if the end product was just as good.

Like x 1000.

 

[flynnibus]

I know, not what many want to hear, but I wonder how long Walt would have held out to his higher standard when faced with the pressures of Wall Street. The only way to not feel that pressure is for a business to stay private, and be content with the lower profit margin.

Companies like Amazon continue to prove that you can innovate and keep the market happy without simply resorting to cutting costs. "the race to the botom" is real.. and not a way to create a disruptive, innovative company that will be sustaining for years to come.

Companies like Apple, or service based companies hook their customers on "value" instead of purely price. Disney always did that and no reason to believe his philosophy would have changed. He was willing to cut and run.. and trim where necessary to deliver what he wanted in an end product. That's what the forward thinkers do... the people that just manage the numbers will sit still and keep squeezing the stone until the world passes them by.

 

[geekza]

No argument here. Seems like execs today are being trained in the ways of only looking at quarterly results to make investors happy. It takes a strong backbone to run a company with ideals contrary to wall street.

Another great example was the Hewlett-Packard before the turn of the century - back when Bill and Dave were alive and running the company. As David Packard wrote in _The HP Way_: "One of our most important management tasks is maintaining the proper balance between short-term profit performance [edit: wall street quarterly focus, as he stated elsewhere] and investment for future strength and growth." When Bill and Dave died and management passed hands, that philosophy died and now HP is no longer the model company it once used to be. I sure hope Disney does not follow that pattern!

Spoiler:

Spoiler

It already has. Shhhhh....

 

[eliza61nyc]

No argument here. Seems like execs today are being trained in the ways of only looking at quarterly results to make investors happy. It takes a strong backbone to run a company with ideals contrary to wall street.

Another great example was the Hewlett-Packard before the turn of the century - back when Bill and Dave were alive and running the company. As David Packard wrote in _The HP Way_: "One of our most important management tasks is maintaining the proper balance between short-term profit performance [edit: wall street quarterly focus, as he stated elsewhere] and investment for future strength and growth." When Bill and Dave died and management passed hands, that philosophy died and now HP is no longer the model company it once used to be. I sure hope Disney does not follow that pattern!

Sort of kiinda agree. definitely with Amazon but my company worked with HP and basically the company refused to update and reinvent themselves in the printer market, they stubbornly held onto the old, the competition finally caught up to them especially in the soho market (small office, home office, they division I work with). If you don't change you die.
Disney is not staying stagnant, they are updating and giving the consumer what they want. The problem is people here don't like the changes. The Epcot in those videos some one sent me would not and could not work today.
just my opinion
I agree with you, I hope the mouseworld doesn't stay stagnant and become another HP, I hope Disney does not keep following the notion of running the parks like it was 1970 and offering old stuff.

Again I'm not saying this new show is going to be better, I reserve judgement to I actually see it.

 

[flyerjab]

...so what you’re saying is it’s a BAD time to talk about your hockey season??

Ooof! Now you're just playing dirty...just like Crosby!

 

[RSoxNo1]

It’s being filled with IP and attractions that could be expected to be found in a castle or studios park?

It’s a park no longer connected to or worthy of its name. Either of them.

The lines are increasingly blurred between Tomorrowland and Future World and now between Fantasyland and World Showcase.

 

[DznyRktekt]

the competition finally caught up to them especially in the soho market (small office, home office, they division I work with). If you don't change you die.
Disney is not staying stagnant, they are updating and giving the consumer what they want. The problem is people here don't like the changes. The Epcot in those videos some one sent me would not and could not work today.
just my opinion
I agree with you, I hope the mouseworld doesn't stay stagnant and become another HP, I hope Disney does not keep following the notion of running the parks like it was 1970 and offering old stuff.

Those videos are a capsule of the grand scale Disney of yesterday used to continually produce. Of course the technology and many of the presentation styles would not work today, but setting the bar above reach would still resonate with guests. One could argue that the scale and risk documented in Martin's videos has not been reached or attempted in the US since the ambitious undertaking of Animal Kingdom.

Similarly, one of the reasons New York City is so dynamic and iconic, is the rich history and architecture (some of the oldest in the United States). It is irreplaceable as shown from the demolition of Penn Station. What is there now is loathed by most and what was there prior is often forgotten. Contrast that to Grand Central (almost slated for the wrecking ball). It is a tourist destination and a source of pride for many. This is just one example in the city that has been able to add newness and excitement to a base of grandeur with new buildings and experiences. EDIT: And people pay a premium for it.

 

[TwilightZone]

I don't care if you never seen his videos. You need to see them for a History Lesson about Epcot and Walt Disney World as a whole.

Here's his entire channel too.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney is not staying stagnant, they are updating and giving the consumer what they want. The problem is people here don't like the changes. The Epcot in those videos some one sent me would not and could not work today.

If Walt gave customers what they thought they wanted... Disneyland would have been a carnival and feature length animated films never would have happened.

Most customers are idiots and don't know what they really want - they only know how to repeat what they've already seen. That's why you don't let customers make the decisions that drive your business. You listen to their needs and come up with solutions that fill those needs and the needs they've not yet realized.

The greats are know what the customer wants before they do...

Customers are horrible at identifying solutions to their wants... or often really breaking their wants down into the real components that matter.

 

[Jeffxz]

As for the wow-factor, dare I say the new show will surpass RoE. It will have much different pacing, and, as said before, a little more TDS Fant! To it.

Maybe the Inflatable projection balloons? Or a similar type of central stage/float that tds has?

An example of what I have heard for Drone use Is Mimicking snow, and giant snowflakes for Frozen

Is the plan to still have the drones over the lagoon? Snow falling would probably work best if the drones were all flying over the backstage areas behind world showcase. Maybe the drones form different layouts over each of the countries pavilions as the story progresses? Like a giant snowflake over Arendelle Norway as Let it go inevitably plays?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The lines are increasingly blurred between Tomorrowland and Future World and now between Fantasyland and World Showcase.

That doesn’t mean they should be...nor does it mean the customers must go along with it like a lemming dash.

Reject the upsells...answer the questions honestly....don’t book the overpriced rooms...don’t go to locations with bad food.

It’s actually not that tough when you think about it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

If Walt gave customers what they thought they wanted... Disneyland would have been a carnival and feature length animated films never would have happened.

Most customers are idiots and don't know what they really want - they only know how to repeat what they've already seen. That's why you don't let customers make the decisions that drive your business. You listen to their needs and come up with solutions that fill those needs and the needs they've not yet realized.

The greats are know what the customer wants before they do...

Customers are horrible at identifying solutions to their wants... or often really breaking their wants down into the real components that matter.

I don’t think I’ve agreed with you more...

The reason why business owners/managers are so overpaid is that it fundamentally is their job to anticipate what will be popular long before the customer dreams it.

It sucks...but they are overpaid.

Another show with part of your world or let it go or be our guest is stale from the start...no matter if you have drones dropping eggs on the tour groups in the crowds for slapstick or not.

 

[tirian]

I still don’t see the much-berated posts where people say they never want anything to change. I do see plenty of posts where people want the new ideas to be as innovative and groundbreaking as the originals were at the time they opened. @marni1971