News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Mr. Stay Puft]

This letter should be more damning to the Governor than Disney… not wanting their name on it because they do work for the Governor, they are essentially saying “we don’t want to upset him because we know we’ll be punished“... People should not have to fear a politician like this in America.

But it is new reality here in the US when one party is captured by authoritarian reactionaries.

 

[GBAB1973]

It’s only proof that disney was involved- which was already known

The point about optics is not in itself anything actionable. Even the presenter noted this and was only using it to support another argument.

Lobbyists write most bills which are rebranded in the same way by staff.

My biggest take away was they outlined several vectors they would attack the soundness of the deal… but without much ranking of which are actually winnable.

But now disney lawyers have a nice list of points to prepare for

A lawyer on twitter was saying if this is the best the state and new board has, they are in a tough spot if this goes to court. All they've really done is try to poke some holes in procedures and then try to inject a concept of "self dealing" with no real attacks on the legality of the agreement itself. And the self dealing angle he said is a tough case to make because by their very nature, special districts are set up for the benefit of the underlying entity that wanted the special district created. In other words, if Universal gets a special district, it would obviously be set up to benefit Universal.

 

[drnilescrane]

Obviously the law firm he referenced drafted the document and used his name as drafter because as he said they didn’t want their name on the agreement for fear of retribution from the Governor.

https://vogelgroupdc.com/florida-office/

As Florida’s favorable climate and economic opportunities continue to attract growth, the development community faces an evolving suite of state and local regulations that affects their ability to service the needs of a growing population. We have helped developers confront and overcome anti-growth policies at the state level through preemption legislation, achieve their long-term visions through the use of sector plans and infrastructure special taxing districts, and cut through federal red tape by removing the Corps of Engineers from most wetland permitting decisions in the state. We are proud of our results for our development and land use clients.

 

[GBAB1973]

At what point will Disney and the new District Board start to work behind the scenes on crafting a compromise package between both sides? Surely this has already started?

Ligation is an option, but wouldn't both sides prefer to try to work out their issues to get this out of the news cycle? The RCID was boring for 50 years, I like to go back to that.

Maybe but knowing who is on the board and who the board is really working for, it's quite possible they have no desire to settle with Disney and negotiate a fair agreement. They want to lay waste and try to control what Disney is doing.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Such as issues pertaining to voting rights and fair districting.

The only voting rights issues that have come up have been the rollback of some 2020 measures that were always meant to be temporary due to COVID. Putting voting procedures back to where they were pre-pandemic was not the gutting of voting rights that opponents framed it as.

Your claim about district maps is just false.

Supreme Court Turns Away GOP Challenges to Congressional Maps in North Carolina, Pennsylvania

Justices let stand congressional maps expected to be more favorable to Democrats than Republican proposals.

www.wsj.com

 

[Dan Deesnee]

There is no freedom of speech in Florida. Not for individuals, not even for corporations.

These are dark times in my native state that I have multigenerational roots in. DeSantis is turning Florida into his own personal fiefdom. As if we're now a country separate from the US.

And there are millions who think the complete opposite of what you just said. That's the beauty of America, actually. Sometimes the people in power do things you agree with, sometimes they don't. He won't be Florida's governor forever.

Corporations have free speech in every state, including Florida. However, free speech has consequences sometimes. Corporations should probably just stay out of politics in general, like they used to. The average person just wants to enjoy what the company produces, not hear all about their political leanings...

 

[peter11435]

Corporations have free speech in every state, including Florida. However, free speech has consequences sometimes.

again….. those consequences can not come from the government. If they do, then you never had free speech.

 

[lentesta]

A lawyer on twitter was saying if this is the best the state and new board has, they are in a tough spot if this goes to court. All they've really done is try to poke some holes in procedures and then try to inject a concept of "self dealing" with no real attacks on the legality of the agreement itself. And the self dealing angle he said is a tough case to make because by their very nature, special districts are set up for the benefit of the underlying entity that wanted the special district created. In other words, if Universal gets a special district, it would obviously be set up to benefit Universal.

This seems to be the consensus from the lawyers I've talked to, too.

 

[GoofGoof]

It's probably minor. I think @ParentsOf4 said the common remedy is to send out the letters as soon as is practicable.

And that's without looking at the original RCID charter, which may have given the BoS the abiltity to skip some steps.

I think you also need one of the landowners who didn’t properly receive the notice to claim a grievance. If a landowner comes forward and says they didn’t know about this and therefore didn’t have the opportunity to provide public comment then that could be a problem. If nobody was harmed then there’s no issue. The mailing is only done to protect affected parties.

 

[GBAB1973]

Anyone else shocked Trump is more on Disney’s side of this. That should tell you everything you need to know about DeSantis overreaching here in a big way

I don't think Trump is on Disney's side here. He's just trying to argue that Big Bad Disney is beating up DeSantis and we can't have that kind of loser as President. At some point, as this drags on, Trump will brag that he, and only he, could have taken on Disney and beaten them.

 

[CentralFLlife]

No. The rule of law is robust. Our former president attempted a coup to steal the 2020 election. He filed over 50 lawsuits attempting to overturn legitimate election results and he lost every single one of those cases, many of which were decided by judges and justices that he had appointed.

I see why people don't like these things, and there are many of them that I don't like either. But I don't think "worry" is justified.

The worry is absolutely justified. Its borderline irresponsible to say otherwise.

If a government is willing to single out and retaliate a major corporation for something that was said, they will do the same to you someday.

Yes, the rule of law is robust. But the government so blatantly going against the rule of law is absolutely concerning. If need be, they’ll happily change the law to get their way.

 

[Chi84]

And there are millions who think the complete opposite of what you just said. That's the beauty of America, actually. Sometimes the people in power do things you agree with, sometimes they don't. He won't be Florida's governor forever.

Corporations have free speech in every state, including Florida. However, free speech has consequences sometimes. Corporations should probably just stay out of politics in general, like they used to. The average person just wants to enjoy what the company produces, not hear all about their political leanings...

True. If people don’t like what Disney is saying or doing, they can vote with their wallets.

The issue in this thread, though, is whether a corporation’s decision to say something political can result in being punished by the government.

 

[Mr. Stay Puft]

A lawyer on twitter was saying if this is the best the state and new board has, they are in a tough spot if this goes to court. All they've really done is try to poke some holes in procedures and then try to inject a concept of "self dealing" with no real attacks on the legality of the agreement itself. And the self dealing angle he said is a tough case to make because by their very nature, special districts are set up for the benefit of the underlying entity that wanted the special district created. In other words, if Universal gets a special district, it would obviously be set up to benefit Universal.

Ya, and proving intent is very difficult to do in court. Even by the state.

 

[scottieRoss]

The only voting rights issues that have come up have been the rollback of some 2020 measures that were always meant to be temporary due to COVID. Putting voting procedures back to where they were pre-pandemic was not the gutting of voting rights that opponents framed it as.

Your claim about district maps is just false.

Supreme Court Turns Away GOP Challenges to Congressional Maps in North Carolina, Pennsylvania

Justices let stand congressional maps expected to be more favorable to Democrats than Republican proposals.

www.wsj.com

Except the Voting Rights Act lawsuit is currently moving forward in US Disctrict Court. Circuit Court of Appeals refused to dismiss it

A federal panel clears the way for a lawsuit challenging Florida's congressional redistricting map

The redistricting plan, which Gov. Ron DeSantis pushed through the Florida Legislature during a special session last April, was used in the elections amid constitutional challenges in federal and state courts.

wusfnews.wusf.usf.edu

 

[tissandtully]

Corporations have free speech in every state, including Florida. However, free speech has consequences sometimes

Sounds like you don’t understand free speech

 

[drnilescrane]

Maybe but knowing who is on the board and who the board is really working for, it's quite possible they have no desire to settle with Disney and negotiate a fair agreement. They want to lay waste and try to control what Disney is doing.

The problem is the District has limited ability to raise funding to actually fight this in court, which they're clearly aware of.

Due to Disney's successful litigation with the Orange County property appraiser, they hold a large amount in reserve that they know they have to refund. Clearly they want to tap that but Disney has a history of winning those cases.

They could raise taxes, but that'll *definitely* end up in a lawsuit.

They could more bond debt, but isn't the goal to retire bonds not add to them?

They could cancel future road projects, but Disney made sure those were all contracted out and had 100% beak clauses.

The District is legally prohibited from tolling roads by the enabling act.

They *could* charge for parking at Springs due to the stupid way Disney set up that agreement (in Anaheim they have a master lease with the city and operate the garages themselves, and gain ownership when the bonds expire), but that's peanuts.

Disney owns RCES. Disney sets the rates and charges the district, not the other way around. I guess they could charge $1m a dumpster to empty...

They could sell off some land surrounding Flamingo Crossings or Celebration for housing development, but for the restrictive covenants. Also putting housing or a prison over there really isn't going to affect Disney too much, but it will absolutely upset the residents of those FL House and Senate districts.

 

[mkt]

However, free speech has consequences sometimes.

Not from the government. That's LITERALLY the first amendment of the constitution.

Speech with government consequences is NOT free speech.

 

[Brian]

At some point, as this drags on, Trump will brag that he, and only he, could have taken on Disney and beaten them.

"Believe me, folks, if that had been me going up against Disney, it would be a much different outcome, much different. DeSanctus is a lightweight and couldn't even take on Mickey Mouse. They'd be coming to me crying saying "Sir... you were right all along." and I'd tell them, well we all have our own problems. And speaking of problems, how about that Taylor Swift? This is true, one night I was sitting in the beautiful south wing of Mar-a-Lago, really a magnificent property when you think about it, when Taylor Swift called me and said "Thank you, Mr. President, for making America great again." and I told her you know what, it must be exhausting always rooting for the anti-heroes. Good for you for finally coming around. And speaking of coming around..."

 

[CentralFLlife]

However, free speech has consequences sometimes.

It absolutely does!

In places like China, Russia, North Korea, Saudi Arabia, etc

 

[GBAB1973]

Not from the government. That's LITERALLY the first amendment of the constitution.

Speech with government consequences is NOT free speech.

One thing I have learned in the age of Trump, is that there are a lot of people, many conservatives, who actually don't understand the concept of free speech in this country.