News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Chi84]

It's not an interpretation, you're just not understanding what "precedent" means. Factual findings have NOTHING almost nothing to do with any other case besides the one being decided. OJ Simpson being acquitted did not establish precedent for future murder trials, it was confined to THAT jury and THAT trial and THAT fact pattern. It had no applicability elsewhere.


The jury isn't going to be participating in message boards and reading every article that CNN puts out about this case. They're going to see the evidence presented at trial, and that's it.

Criminal trials are different because the state can't appeal them (double jeopardy). There is no OJ Simpson criminal case that can be cited as precedent.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Criminal trials are different because the state can't appeal them (double jeopardy). There is no OJ Simpson criminal case that can be cited as precedent.

You guys are being extremely pedantic.

The point is... if this case ends up getting appealed (which I think is unlikely in the first place, I think Florida loses and then gives up), the appellate decisions are not going to revisit the facts. Yes, they COULD revisit the facts if the facts were "clearly erroneous." But they're not going to.

 

[Patcheslee]

The Board is still pending confirmation, how much could the just filed lawsuit influence the decision there? It's sort of an opening for some to jump off the DeSantis ship and say they don't agree with the direction the board has gone already.

 

[Heath]

When the case is settled?

RCID isn’t exactly unique in Florida. And the issue isn’t just taking it away. They have went beyond just dissolving RCID but instead taking over RCID and using it and other arms of the state government as weapons against Disney.

I don’t think that’s his point at all. This is a lengthy thread with tons of information and links to sources about what RCID is, why it was created, etc.

If you come in now and ask questions that show little understanding of what was discussed and hashed out earlier in the thread, it leads to starting all over again in terms of providing that information and the discussion ends up going in circles.

There’s no barrier to joining a thread late without reading all the previous posts, but the consequence is that someone may tell you that you’re missing information or misunderstanding something that’s been clarified earlier.

Yes you are right, that’s very true and fair point. However there’s a few ombudsman on here with a pattern of unnecessary snarky remarks if anyone brings a different perspective.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The Board is still pending confirmation, how much could the just filed lawsuit influence the decision there? It's sort of an opening for some to jump off the DeSantis ship and say they don't agree with the direction the board has gone already.

Influence what decision? Confirmation? Anyone who decides to resign is just replaced by another appointee. It doesn’t really change anything unless DeSantis decides to appoint someone more reasonable.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

unless DeSantis decides to appoint someone more reasonable.

Heck I'd settle for someone less embarrassing.

That has been the most surprising "wow, he really botched the optics" of this thing to me. He could have picked some reasonable pro-business Republicans, one or two moderate Democrats, one or two pro-Disney people. People who would still be on "his side," broadly defined, but didn't embarrass themselves. He could have gone the Merrick Garland route. Instead he went with culture war flamethrowers.

 

[flynnibus]

And organized by cities essentially. I went to an Appleton Area School District, we had kids from one city and nearby towns too small to have their own schools. We didn’t organize them by county, that would be far too much.

not 'cities' - by population centers. Wisconsin only has 190 incorporated cities. We're talking about form of government here, not just slang.

Besides, arguments can be made both ways of which is better... like what's the point of an administrative unit so small that your overhead becomes such a greater percentage of your expenses. Picked a random Wisconsin unified school district and looked at their stats... https://nces.ed.gov/ccd/districtsearch/district_detail.asp?ID2=5500360

73 high school teachers.. my kid's high school had 130 in one school... and I have 5 such schools less than 5 miles away from me. Would I have a school district for every neighborhood? And I live in completely unincorporated areas (VA only has 39 cities, and 190 towns).

But we're way off topic... municipal boundaries aren't always what people think.

 

[LAKid53]

The Board is still pending confirmation, how much could the just filed lawsuit influence the decision there? It's sort of an opening for some to jump off the DeSantis ship and say they don't agree with the direction the board has gone already.

The Senate hasn't confirmed board members yet? Are they waiting for the 72 hour cooling off period?

 

[scottieRoss]

Just to point out, I live in Texas, the home of 142,000,000 ISDs. And they are horrible. Besides the funding inequities, we have districts that 2 or 3 loud parents can affect the board and their decisions. Here in San Antonio, we have 8 ISDs so just going across the block changes your taxation and quality of education. There is no excuse.
As for parental input, I don't think parents should have input. It is the Board's role to make the decisions on what is best for the community. I would much prefer Federal standards and funding to provide the best education. There should not matter if you live in Louisiana, Texas or Massachusetts. Every child should have the best tools to succeed.

 

[GoofGoof]

There's an extremely important distinction that I think people are missing.

There are questions of fact and there are questions of law, and Disney could theoretically lose on either one.

Questions of fact are decided by juries in jury trials and by the judge in "bench trials." Questions of law are decided by the judge. Questions of law are what get appealed and decided by the appellate courts and SCOTUS. Appellate courts generally do not weigh in on the facts.

With regard to the First Amendment claims:

• The question of fact is whether DeSantis and the Florida legislature did pass this legislation to retaliate against Disney for their speech.
• The question of law is whether passing this law in retaliation against Disney for their speech is unconstitutional.

If Disney loses on the facts, this case will be entirely inconsequential for any other future cases. If they lose on the law (which they won't), then it would indeed be consequential.

Losing on the facts has nothing to do with "precedent."

I would agree with this to an extent. It’s almost inconceivable to me they could lose on facts. How could any reasonable person think this was done for any reason other than retaliation? If they lose on facts the court would have to basically say that the public statements made in speeches, interviews and even in a published book claiming this was being done to punish woke Disney cannot be used to prove intent. If that’s the ruling then I think that maybe does set a precedent for future cases.

I don’t know all the nuances of the law. Based on limited examples presented here there seems to be some legal precedent that removing a perk that isn’t constitutionally guaranteed can still be retaliation if it’s done to punish speech. I suppose there could be a ruling in which the Supreme Court ultimately rules that corporations do not have the same rights to free speech, I think that may require reversing citizens United or at least part of it. The other thing that might be argued is that even though the Governor and multiple members of the legislature openly admitted this was retaliation not every member of the legislation that voted yes did so. The problem with that argument is they would have to show a valid reason why this was done and that it wasn’t done to single out Disney. Both hard to prove given the nature of the bills and also that they were done in special session.

 

[mikejs78]

The problem with that argument is they would have to show a valid reason why this was done and that it wasn’t done to single out Disney.

And also why the legislature chose to do this without following the long established procedure as defined in law to dissolve special districts....

 

[GoofGoof]

The jury isn't going to be participating in message boards and reading every article that CNN puts out about this case. They're going to see the evidence presented at trial, and that's it.

They could just give them a copy of the Governor’s book. No need to read message boards or watch CNN. The filing references the book numerous times.

 

[Lilofan]

Just to point out, I live in Texas, the home of 142,000,000 ISDs. And they are horrible. Besides the funding inequities, we have districts that 2 or 3 loud parents can affect the board and their decisions. Here in San Antonio, we have 8 ISDs so just going across the block changes your taxation and quality of education. There is no excuse.
As for parental input, I don't think parents should have input. It is the Board's role to make the decisions on what is best for the community. I would much prefer Federal standards and funding to provide the best education. There should not matter if you live in Louisiana, Texas or Massachusetts. Every child should have the best tools to succeed.

More funding for improved education?. Try in TX, more funding to pay for high salaries for football coaching staff, improved stadium and workout facilities for the high school athletes. High school football in TX is religion ( ie, Odessa, Allen , etc )..

 

[GoofGoof]

You guys are being extremely pedantic.

The point is... if this case ends up getting appealed (which I think is unlikely in the first place, I think Florida loses and then gives up), the appellate decisions are not going to revisit the facts. Yes, they COULD revisit the facts if the facts were "clearly erroneous." But they're not going to.

Why would you think it won’t be appealed? I would say it’s almost certain to be appealed no matter what the result is. If Disney loses they will appeal. If the state loses why would they not appeal? I do think it’s unlikely the Supreme Court takes up this case unless something very unusual comes out in the ruling so I think this case is definitively settled by the appeals court. I agree that in appeal it’s less about establishing facts and more about apply the law to those facts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m sure state republicans would be more than happy to add a constitution curriculum in their state if not already there. Do you think Dems would support it?

You don’t need to try this hard…we get it.

Are you telling me they don’t teach the constitution in schools anymore? It’s not part of a high school or middle school American history class? My kids have certainly learned about the constitution in school, but maybe that’s not the case everywhere. That is a failure of the education system. I also find it odd that you think Democrats oppose the constitution while Republicans embrace it. Is that a gun thing?

…I was gonna try to untangle that too…but what’s the point?

 

[UNCgolf]

Why would you think it won’t be appealed? I would say it’s almost certain to be appealed no matter what the result is. If Disney loses they will appeal. If the state loses why would they not appeal? I do think it’s unlikely the Supreme Court takes up this case unless something very unusual comes out in the ruling so I think this case is definitively settled by the appeals court. I agree that in appeal it’s less about establishing facts and more about apply the law to those facts.

My guess is he's thinking DeSantis will no longer be governor by the time it gets to the appeals process, and the new governor won't be interested in continuing the DeSantis crusade.

Since Florida eliminated the requirement for him to resign, though, there's a much better chance he will still be in office. Things are not looking great for him in terms of winning the Republican nomination, although there's time for that to change.

 

[Disone]

The governor has already addressed this, claiming to not be aware of the Reedy Creek Improvement District.

So don't get me wrong. I was pro DeSantis. I voted for him. But how he's handled this debuncle has changed my mind. I'm not blind. So he's going to try to sell me that he as the governor, the governor of the state of Florida, did not know that his state's largest tax contributor, the Walt Disney company, was sitting on officially the Reedy Creek improvement district? For four years he ran the state of Florida and did not know this? He's the governor! And he didn't know this? Come on.....

 

[Patcheslee]

The Senate hasn't confirmed board members yet? Are they waiting for the 72 hour cooling off period?

Don't know, guess they only do so many per week? There's over 100 waiting for confirmation listed on the Administrative Appointments page

 

[Lilofan]

So don't get me wrong. I was pro DeSantis. I voted for him. But how he's handled this debuncle has changed my mind. I'm not blind. So he's going to try to sell me that he as the governor, the governor of the state of Florida, did not know that his state's largest tax contributor, the Walt Disney company, was sitting on officially the Reedy Creek improvement district? For four years he ran the state of Florida and did not know this? He's the governor! And he didn't know this? Come on.....

Some have accomplished careers in repeating lies so eventually people will believe it as truth.

 

[MisterPenguin]

PolitiFact - Walt Disney World was not tax-exempt in Florida, contrary to social media claims

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis signed a bill to repeal a decades-old agreement that allowed the Walt Disney Company to operat

www.politifact.com

"DeSantis erases Disney’s tax exempt law. Will cost Disney $200 Mil in taxes. Per year," read an April 21 caption alongside a photoshopped image of DeSantis standing in front of a trash can with Mickey and Minnie Mouse’s heads peeking out.​

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The post was flagged as part of Facebook’s efforts to combat false news and misinformation on its News Feed. (Read more about our partnership with Facebook.)​

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The grammatically problematic statement propped up many inaccuracies about the impact of the new law, and it mischaracterized the privileges the tax district originally awarded Disney.​

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Disney already pays taxes in Florida​

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Reedy Creek, a special taxing district for the Walt Disney World Resort that acted with the authority of a county government, was created in 1967 to lure the entertainment giant to Orlando.​

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Under the agreement, Disney was responsible for building and maintaining municipal services like power, roads, and fire protection — which ensured that the residents of Orange and Osceola counties would not have to pay for such services.​

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Disney's most significant benefit from the arrangement was not financial but rather the autonomy to develop the 25,000 acres it owns in Central Florida without much of the oversight other developers typically have.​

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Though the deal provided Disney with several privileges, it did not make the theme park tax-exempt. Disney World contributed more than $780 million in state and local taxes in fiscal year 2021, according to a company disclosure.​

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The Facebook post’s claim that Disney will now have to pay $200 million in taxes annually appears to be based on the false premise that Disney wasn’t already paying taxes.​

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The $200 million figure seems to be derived from state Rep. Spencer Roach, a Republican from North Fort Myers. He told NBC News that Disney had avoided around $200 million in property taxes that surrounding counties could have collected.​

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The article noted that Roach’s Democratic colleagues and officials in Central Florida questioned his math and the claim that Disney has not paid property taxes.​

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Roach did not respond to our request for comment.​

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"There’s this perception that Reedy Creek somehow gave Disney property tax breaks," said Scott Randolph, Orange County’s tax collector. "It does not do that."​

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Our ruling​

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A Facebook post said DeSantis "erased Disney’s tax exempt law. Will cost Disney $200 Mil in taxes. Per year!"​

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DeSantis did not "erase" any tax-exempt status for Disney. That misconstrues the special taxing district status that is in the process of being removed.​

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We could not find evidence to substantiate the $200 million tax figure cited in the claim.​

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We rate this claim False.​