News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mkt]

As am I, having been born and raised in LA. And much older than you.

Without WDW, Central Florida wouldn't be the economic powerhouse in the state it now is. Universal opened in Florida because Disney showed a theme park in the state would be a profitable venture.

Without Disney, Gatorland would've shut down decades ago.

 

[LAKid53]

Without Disney, Gatorland would've shut down decades ago.

Without Disney, there'd be no Universal, Sea World, Legoland, Busch Gardens or any of the other major attractions in the state.

 

[GoofGoof]

You shouldn't trust anything that guy says. It's wildly skewed political opinions; not actual legal analysis.

I think this is really good news for Disney. If someone desperate to find any fault in their case can only come up with some convoluted claim of securities fraud that‘s pretty encouraging. There is a less than 0.0001% chance that Disney is found guilty of securities fraud here

 

[Stripes]

So what benefits did Disney enjoy through this arrangement?

RCID was a mutually beneficial arrangement. It no longer is.

The only benefit Disney derived was control as majority landowner. Obviously they no longer have that control.

 

[GoofGoof]

A true Originalist doesn’t view corporations as having any political rights. Quoting from Citizens United:

Postratification practice bolsters the conclusion that the First Amendment, “as originally understood,” … did not give corporations political speech rights on a par with the rights of individuals. Well into the modern era of general incorporation statutes, “[t]he common law was generally interpreted as prohibiting corporate political participation,” First Nat. Bank of Boston v. Bellotti, 435 U. S. 765, 819 (1978) (White, J., dissenting), and this Court did not recognize any First Amendment protections for corporations until the middle part of the 20th century.​

Citizens United and Bellotti are both 5-4 decisions and both remain controversial. An Originalist might believe these were decided wrongly and overrule them.

An Originalist might examine the 1798 decision in Calder (the basis for ex post facto law restrictions) and read this:

The Legislature may enjoin, permit, forbid; and punish; they may declare new crimes; and establish rules of conduct for all its citizens in future cases; they may command what is right, and prohibit what is wrong; but they cannot change innocence into guilt or punish innocence as a crime; or violate the right of an antecedent lawful private contract; or the right of private property.​

A true Originalist might say to themselves that our Founding Fathers intended that restrictions on ex post facto laws apply to private contracts only.

There are degrees of Originalists. Like most justices, they tend to emphasize the parts of the law that get them to the ruling they want to get to.

As far as Bush or Trump appointees holding certain views on business, I agree Republicans historically were pro-business. But Democrats generally were pro-regulation. Does this mean we can count on liberal Judge Walker to rule in DeSantis' favor?

Companies have gone liberal (avoiding that other word) to a degree than no Republican would have imagined even 10 years ago. It would be misleading to assume that just because Republicans or their judicial appointees were pro-business before, they remain pro-business now.

Returning to my original point, Disney needs to be concerned about the justices it pulls on appeal.

Pro-regulation doesn’t mean supports this. There are probably many people who do not oppose what they consider is reasonable and necessary regulation of various industries and companies. That doesn’t mean they support anything any government does.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So what is Disney’s benefit here with RCID?

It’s been said by some on here they don’t get a financial break, and may even pay more in taxes.

Many of those same people have also said they don’t get an unusual break in terms of various approvals.

Yet their actions - the development agreement, restrictive covenant, lawsuit - suggests they really wanted to keep the status quo above and beyond the principle of defending themselves.

So what benefits did Disney enjoy through this arrangement?

Were you necessarily receiving some prior benefit if I start punching you and you want it to stop?

Disney’s benefits have been explained, it’s in their ability to control their development.

 

[GoofGoof]

Is there some imaginary gotcha hiding in there?
Are people just making stuff up now and saying it's so?

No and heck yeah

 

[LAKid53]

If you really want to cry, look at the crap sweetheart deal the City of Miami did to get Marlins Park.

After the stadium is paid off, the team will have gotten a Billion Dollar stadium for free.

FSU managed to get $20 million in blueprint monies to renovate Doak Campbell Stadium.

 

[GrumpyFan]

So what is Disney’s benefit here with RCID?

It’s been said by some on here they don’t get a financial break, and may even pay more in taxes.

Many of those same people have also said they don’t get an unusual break in terms of various approvals.

Yet their actions - the development agreement, restrictive covenant, lawsuit - suggests they really wanted to keep the status quo above and beyond the principle of defending themselves.

So what benefits did Disney enjoy through this arrangement?

They have the benefit of being able to build and maintain the 25,000+ acres they bought and own in a manner that's consistent with their standards and needs which are higher than most of the cities and counties in the rest of the state. Essentially, it gives them their own HOA for which they can control what gets built, where it gets built, and how without having the burden of the local government and their red tape. It allowed them to build the property in the late 60s and the infrastructure needed without state or local funding. It allows them now to maintain that same infrastructure without burdening the local government. They tax themselves to build the roads, waterways, emergency services they need and the local taxpayers are relieved of the bill.

Depending on what it is they build, they still have to comply with state and federal regulations.
For example: Building codes, transportation, power & water, etc.

I think the biggest reason they want to keep it so they can continue to build as they please without the hassle of red tape.
Better still, having a board that represents them and their interests is critical to their success. The newly appointed board does not represent them or their interests and seems more interested in restricting and punishing them.

It should be noted there are nearly 1,300 other districts in Florida that have similar independent authority for their community.
Another similar district is Cape Canaveral and the Villages. These function independently to allow the owner and residents to build and maintain the community in was that best meets their needs.

So, what benefit does the state get in taking control? How does that help "level the field"?
For the most part, they get to build as they please, once approved in open public hearings, without interference or red tape. And, why shouldn't they? It's their land. As long as they aren't building anything harmful to the surrounding community, why would the state want to interefere when they've both greatly benefited from the arrangment for more than 50 years.

I may not have all this entirely accurate, and probably mis-stated, but here's my best response as I understand it. There are others here who understand and can explain it MUCH better.
A much better explanation is here:

Walt Disney World’s setup in Florida is, indeed, unusual, but it doesn’t quite make sense to call it a “carve-out.” Properly understood, a “carve-out” is a rule that is applied differently to entities of a similar or identical nature: The Walt Disney Company, for example, enjoys a brazen carve-out in Florida’s tech-regulation bill: an exemption for Disney+ that was not granted to Netflix, Hulu, or HBO Max. By contrast, the rules that apply to Walt Disney World could be better described as “tailored,” for, despite the insinuations of many Florida Republicans, Walt Disney World’s accommodation is unique not in its type but only in its particulars. As it happens, Florida has 1,844 special districts, of which 1,288 are, like Walt Disney World, “independent.” The Villages — where Governor DeSantis made his announcement about the review of Walt Disney World’s status — is “independent,” as are Orlando International Airport and the Daytona International Speedway. Clearly, Walt Disney World is a weird place: It is the size of San Francisco, it straddles two counties (Orange and Osceola), and, by necessity, it relies on an infrastructure cache that has been custom-built to its peculiar needs. To claim that the laws that enable this oddity to work represent a “special break” is akin to claiming that the laws that facilitate special installations such as Cape Canaveral or the World Trade Center are “special breaks”: true, in the narrowest sense, but false when examined more closely.

 

[GoofGoof]

He was already in the national spotlight with his landslide election win...and then, it seems he chose the next path poorly...one of life's mysteries I guess...

He certainly did. Then he doubled down and doubled down again and is still doubling down on that poor path. I think he’s hoping for his tin cup moment in the end but the ball keeps landing in the water each time he whiffs badly.

 

[lazyboy97o]

View attachment 713279

Just be honest with us and say you don’t care about the facts, that partisan support is more important to you. Honesty is better than spamming the thread with rants and memes.

 

[donsullivan]

And lest I come across as blindly in support of changing nothing, let me be clear:
- Should the state have a representative for a 2 or 4-year term on the RCID board? Yeah, that’s probably not a bad idea to have one representative on the board to improve transparency.
- With the above in mind, maybe Osceola & Orange County should each have a representative on the board for a similar term, since they are indirectly impacted by virtually everything done within the District.
- The district could never be classified as without flaw, and people can selectively identify errors- But overall, for over half a century it has done far more good than harm. And there is no reason to just blow it up for totally political reasons. The district didn’t do anything wrong, some of you are just mad at Disney for your own tribal reasons and found a way to take out that anger on them without regard for the actual impact of it. Adding some external oversight isn’t by default a bad thing, but you don’t have to blow everything up for revenge to achieve that.

 

[LittleBuford]

Best not to engage, I think.

 

[LAKid53]

They have the benefit of being able to build and maintain the 25,000+ acres they bought and own in a manner that's consistent with their standards and needs which are higher than most of the cities and counties in the rest of the state. Essentially, it gives them their own HOA for which they can control what gets built, where it gets built, and how without having the burden of the local government and their red tape. It allowed them to build the property in the late 60s and the infrastructure needed without state or local funding. It allows them now to maintain that same infrastructure without burdening the local government. They tax themselves to build the roads, waterways, emergency services they need and the local taxpayers are relieved of the bill.

Depending on what it is they build, they still have to comply with state and federal regulations.
For example: Building codes, transportation, power & water, etc.

I think the biggest reason they want to keep it so they can continue to build as they please without the hassle of red tape.
Better still, having a board that represents them and their interests is critical to their success. The newly appointed board does not represent them or their interests and seems more interested in restricting and punishing them.

It should be noted there are nearly 1,300 other districts in Florida that have similar independent authority for their community.
Another similar district is Cape Canaveral and the Villages. These function independently to allow the owner and residents to build and maintain the community in was that best meets their needs.

So, what benefit does the state get in taking control? How does that help "level the field"?
For the most part, they get to build as they please, once approved in open public hearings, without interference or red tape. And, why shouldn't they? It's their land. As long as they aren't building anything harmful to the surrounding community, why would the state want to interefere when they've both greatly benefited from the arrangent for more than 50 years.

Some permits still have to be filed with SFWMD and DEP, depending on the type of project.

 

[Jimmyzlc]

Wow. If you actually believe this you probably ought to do some reading (away from here) to get the actual facts on how and why Reedy Creek was created and how the Florida Supreme County has upheld the need and benefit from it multiple times over the decades. You are listening to the ‘talking points’ about taxes and don’t understand that they actually pay more than the other competitors so that I as a taxpayer don’t have to pay to build their roads, water treatment plants, power facilities, etc.. Did they derive ‘benefit’ from this structure, yes- but the residents of the surrounding counties also derived benefit by not having to pay for all the services needed to support the vast development they’ve done over the last half century.

As someone directly impacted by this mess, (both my job and my home) it makes me crazy when people flippantly throw out talking points without doing the homework to learn all of the facts of the whole thing.

And from what I understand now. Everyone of those residents taxes will be going through the roof. I guess when you completely control a state you can screw everyone.

 

[OceanBlue]

Read all 77 pages of the lawsuit today,

So, you’re telling me the RCID wasn’t a monetary advantage for Disney…Disney took a monetary hit in Florida on that deal…?!

it’s more than than that, it’s the bubble it’s the whole aesthetic

 

[JAB]

He certainly did. Then he doubled down and doubled down again and is still doubling down on that poor path. I think he’s hoping for his tin cup moment in the end but the ball keeps landing in the water each time he whiffs badly.

Like with KFC, "double down" is something that some may think is a good idea at first, but ultimately come to regret.



ETA: For those who might not know what KFC has to do with DeSantis's ill-advised strategy of doubling down, the KFC Double Down is a ridiculous "sandwich" consisting of cheese and bacon between two fried chicken cutlets instead of bread which I'm guessing has led to much gastronomical regret.

 

[LAKid53]

And lest I come across as blindly in support of changing nothing, let me be clear:
- Should the state have a representative for a 2 or 4-year term on the RCID board? Yeah, that’s probably not a bad idea to have one representative on the board to improve transparency.
- With the above in mind, maybe Osceola & Orange County should each have a representative on the board for a similar term, since they are indirectly impacted by virtually everything done within the District.
- The district could never be classified as without flaw, and people can selectively identify errors- But overall, for over half a century it has done far more good than harm. And there is no reason to just blow it up for totally political reasons. The district didn’t do anything wrong, some of you are just mad at Disney for your own tribal reasons and found a way to take out that anger on them without regard for the actual impact of it. Adding some external oversight isn’t by default a bad thing, but you don’t have to blow everything up for revenge to achieve that.

I would agree with allowing the state and both counties to appoint members to the Board. However, I would also want to see some type of qualifications in the statute for members appointed by state and local government to the Board. Civil engineers, biologists, land use attorney, etc. People who have the expertise to make real contributions.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Some permits still have to be filed with SFWMD and DEP, depending on the type of project.

Thanks for the addition there.
I've seen those, and used to skim their web-sites on a regular basis looking for clues at what Disney was building next. Pretty cool, but usually vague, at least to my un-trained eyes.

 

[donsullivan]

I assumed he was being ironic right? Making a joke. I thought it was funny

Edit: never mind….I read that one wrong. Should have kept reading first before posting

This is past accepting that people are trying to be ‘funny’. it is directly affecting people’s livelihoods when everyone in RCID has to pay higher taxes as a result of all this recent theater. When International Travelers decide to stay away for a while in case ’something goes wrong’. When the people just trying to do their jobs in various roles within RCID are experiencing threats from people blindly listening to the silly talking points (I know people personally who have experienced this). When those of us in Orange County are at risk of 20%+ property tax increases if this whole thing gets blown up and the county has to absorb the bond debt.

The impact of this is because of ridiculous tribal politics and flippantly throwing around talking points instead of looking for actual facts. All of this has an impact on peoples jobs, their homes and their families- all so one tribe can ‘OWN’ the others with aggressive misinformation campaigns. Please just get the facts when jumping into this and stop throwing around ‘talking points’ that are not backed up by real facts.