News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Cliff]

You can hope I guess . Why would Disney need to commit an illegal act when they controlled the board? The majority of what RCID handled was very mundane stuff like roads and power. Lawyers handled all the contracts.

I dont claim to be right about anything I typed. I made that clear. Im only saying there are many different possibilities at play here. The dynamics between Disney+RCID+State of Florida are very complex and I doubt that anybody on this boad had a 100% gasp on all the issues from each player.

Dusney's lawyers feel confident...Florida's lawyers also feel confident. Both sides are armed with good legal minds. Disney is not the only one with great lawyers. Anybody with $$$$ can get brilluant lawyers.

Did Disney do everything right? Maybe!
Could Disney have broken laws? Maybe!

We are ALL going to see this play out over the next year or two in the courts. Ultimately..."they" will determine which lawyers are right and which are wrong. Im just a guy gueseing in a forum like most people here.

Yes....this kind of stuff HAS happened in other places before so its not unheard of.

 

[peter11435]

Could Disney have broken laws? Maybe!

Like what?

 

[Disney Analyst]

Predictably, a certain former POTUS is going after DeSantis about this situation.

View attachment 711056

What is this feeling, so sudden and new?

Do I actually agree with Trump about something?!

(Screaming, crying, runs away).

 

[mkt]

Predictably, a certain former POTUS is going after DeSantis about this situation.

View attachment 711056

Something about a broken clock

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Beyond the setup for applying for the bonds though, do you think it's wise that a state should dedicate more resources to propping up industry than overseeing housing development or education, or to the other functions that a good government should provide?

Don't you think the people should generally have a say in such matters?

Should people have a say in how their money is spent? Excellent question, and one that neatly sums up why DeSantis’s takeover is unjust - and that's before taking into account the First Amendment issues.

 

[Cliff]

No. The RCID doesn't "exist" anymore as it once operated because the Governor got upset that Disney ignored his demands for them to stay out of his way with regards to the education legislation he was passing. DeSantis has been pretty open about why he did what he did.

If Disney bows to him and Chepak never issues a statement, none of this happens. This is not because of issues like a bond issuance from 30 years ago.

Why does everybody always blame the Governor exclusively. Everything people hate about this starts with the legislators. The bill is created and voted on by LIKE-MINDED people over there FIRST. Only after it passes by majority on both sides does the Governor get it and sign it.

All the legislators are free from people's criticism? People only think about "ONE" guy in all of this? Laws cant be blamed on "one" person because it takes MANY representatives to make and vote and sign a bill into law. The Governor cannot do this on his own.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Has anyone seen any reports from this morning’s Board of Supervisors meeting?

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I’m sure this would effect any other contracts put into place in the past 3 months? Would those parties sue as well?

I believe it only applies for the 3 months prior to a new board taking over, so it was worded specifically to only apply to RCID, which just hurts the State's case even more. And if the goal is to get Disney to sue, then they're really shooting themselves in the foot because this would mean Disney would sue the State, thus putting the burden for the defense on the taxpayers whereas a suit against the CFTOD would have Disney paying for their opposition's attorneys.

 

[LAKid53]

Which gets to my point, the fact they are dotting their is and crossing their ts here would run counter to the allegation that Disney/RCID are nefarious and have committed crimes behind the scenes. Why would they suddenly start following the law if they have been, as Cliff suggests, not following law leading up to this point?

At the January 25, 2023 meeting of the Board, they announced the upcoming February 8, 2023 meeting at which the Agreement was adopted. It's in the minutes of the January meeting. Which was attended by several reporters from Orlando TV stations WESH, WKMG and WFTV. If Disney was doing something "nefarious", do you think they'd do it in front of reporters from the 3 network stations in Orlando?

 

[danlb_2000]

What is this feeling, so sudden and new?

Do I actually agree with Trump about something?!

(Screaming, crying, runs away).

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

[LAKid53]

You're confused on this issue. Let's get some clarity...

Within the borders of WDW includes wetlands that are designated as protected under *state law."

The state will not allow Disney to build on them, unless.... Disney buys other wetlands elsewhere and designates them as an offset for the protected wetlands within the WDW border that Disney will now build on.

This is a deal given to any entity in the state that wants to build on protected wetlands, all they have to do is buy wetlands elsewhere and have the *state* designate that newly bought property elsewhere as protected wetlands.

Some things of note:

1. To make this deal with the *state*, you have to buy more wetland acreage to be set aside than the acreage you build upon. We saw this when WDW got the protected wetlands between DHS and CBR to be redesignated *by the state* as no longer protected. Now WDW can build upon it (with enough imported dirt).

2. The wetlands that Disney purchases for its offset (which is much larger than the acreage they will now build on) is not contiguous to WDW. They aren't creating a ring of unbuildable land around WDW.

3. This all done with permission (and negotiation) with the *state*. The *State of Florida's Water Management Agency* is allowing this to happen and overseeing it. Every time Disney builds on protected wetlands *within the borders of WDW*, Florida gets twice [or is it 1 1/2 times] as much acreage eslewhere dedicated to wetlands preservation...

4. ... that no one can build on. Not even Disney. To build on it, someone would have to buy it from Disney, and make a deal with *the state* to offset the acreage they're undesignating as preservation with double the amount of acreage elsewhere, which then becomes unbuildable.

5. Which makes it hilariously incredible... and sad... that DeSantis doesn't know this and thinks the state or some other company can be given these outside-of-WDW preservation wetlands and they can build a mall, or a prison, or ANOTHER THEME PARK (!!!). I believe this outside-the-park protected wetlands are owned by Disney and not the RCID, which makes the fantasy of the state or some other entity building upon it even more hilariously incredible... and sad.

My god, someone finally gets it and knows state law!

Signed, Former DEP employee

 

[DCBaker]

Has anyone seen any reports from this morning’s Board of Supervisors meeting?

It's on the 19th, isn't it?

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's on the 19th, isn't it?

I’ve got my days confused. It feels like it should be Wednesday.

 

[danlb_2000]

Why does everybody always blame the Governor exclusively. Everything people hate about this starts with the legislators. The bill is created and voted on by LIKE-MINDED people over there FIRST. Only after it passes by majority on both sides does the Governor get it and sign it.

All the legislators are free from people's criticism? People only think about "ONE" guy in all of this? Laws cant be blamed on "one" person because it takes MANY representatives to make and vote and sign a bill into law. The Governor cannot do this on his own.

Because the Governor is orchestrating the whole thing. The legislators are just doing his bidding.

 

[el_super]

These questions have nothing at all to do with why the district was altered. Nothing

Of course they do. They always did. Trying to dumb down this argument to a simple question on what the government did feels comfortable because it's easier to defend, but it was ALWAYS more nuanced than that. Always.

Disney could have spoke up and worked to stop the legislation being proposed last year but they didn't. They could already be in court fighting this, but they are not. There is a lot they could have done but choose not to, for all of the reasons out there that made maintaining control of RCID indefensible.

They will most likely fight the development agreement in court and draw this out as long as they can, but make no mistake: their position as a corporation fighting the government makes them enemies on all sides, and it's not a position they want to be in. They will find a way out, even if that means settling with the government, as quickly as possible.

And even if no one admits it, it will have an impact on the type of content that Disney starts releasing.

 

[mkt]

Why does everybody always blame the Governor exclusively.

A few reasons.

1- He sets the tone of government within the state
2- Ever heard of the phrase "the buck stops here"?
3- He could've vetoed it.
4- He pushed for the second legislation
5- He's the one pushing the boundaries of executive power

 

[LAKid53]

Who painted them as benevolent, angelic force? They are, at the end of the day, a business entity looking out for their best interests. But the idea that they are some sort of entity running roughshod over the state, the counties, and the taxpayers like the Florida conservatives are pushing to justify this is a real reach.

That last paragraph seems like a stretch too. Disney didn't fight the transfer of control of RCID because the negative feelings. They waited to see what the state would do before acting. When they saw DeSantis load up the board with ideologues who then said things like how they would use their power now to try to leverage Disney for more conservative content, they acted.

Bingo

 

[MisterPenguin]

My god, someone finally gets it and knows state law!

Signed, Former DEP employee

@danlb_2000 and I were following very closely the Skyliner and the expansion of DHS (Starcruiser and new roads on protected plots). So, we watched in real time the hoops WDW jumped thru.

 

[DCBaker]

I’ve got my days confused. It feels like it should be Wednesday.

I hear you! I did the same thing on a different thread.

 

[LAKid53]

Take yourself out of defensive mode for a second and ask yourself if you really think it makes sense that a state, as a whole, should not have the ability to say that low income housing is a more important priority than additional resort expansion for a corporation.

There's development going up all along 429 on both sides. Why did the state not tell those property owners outside of RCID to include low income housing in Horizons West? I'm sure Disney CMs would have been happy.