News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Polkadotdress]

Ran across this article in a different thread, and couldn't help but notice the irony that Uni is building a new entry road to their EPIC expansion which is priced at $300M, with Uni contributing at least $174. Where's the balance of that $ coming from? Taxpayer funds??? And yet there's no outrage at that...

Documents reveal name Universal plans to give Epic Universe road

The new park is expected to open by summer 2025.

www.mynews13.com

From the article: "As for the Kirkman Road extension, the project is expected to help with traffic in that part of the tourist corridor. When finished, it will add a 1.7-mile connector between Carrier Drive and Universal Boulevard. The project has an estimated cost of $300 million, with Universal providing at least $164 million for the road work. It’s expected to be completed in 2024."

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ran across this article in a different thread, and couldn't help but notice the irony that Uni is building a new entry road to their EPIC expansion which is priced at $300M, with Uni contributing at least $174. Where's the balance of that $ coming from? Taxpayer funds??? And yet there's no outrage at that...

Documents reveal name Universal plans to give Epic Universe road

The new park is expected to open by summer 2025.

www.mynews13.com

From the article: "As for the Kirkman Road extension, the project is expected to help with traffic in that part of the tourist corridor. When finished, it will add a 1.7-mile connector between Carrier Drive and Universal Boulevard. The project has an estimated cost of $300 million, with Universal providing at least $164 million for the road work. It’s expected to be completed in 2024."

This particular road project has been mentioned previously. Universal is also seeking the creation of a community development district to support the proposed SunRail and Brightline station near the convention center (they want to get special treatment for their station).

Those who drop in to repeat the falsehoods about Disney have not shown any interest in engaging with the actual facts of how things work.

 

[GoofGoof]

Ran across this article in a different thread, and couldn't help but notice the irony that Uni is building a new entry road to their EPIC expansion which is priced at $300M, with Uni contributing at least $174. Where's the balance of that $ coming from? Taxpayer funds??? And yet there's no outrage at that...

Documents reveal name Universal plans to give Epic Universe road

The new park is expected to open by summer 2025.

www.mynews13.com

From the article: "As for the Kirkman Road extension, the project is expected to help with traffic in that part of the tourist corridor. When finished, it will add a 1.7-mile connector between Carrier Drive and Universal Boulevard. The project has an estimated cost of $300 million, with Universal providing at least $164 million for the road work. It’s expected to be completed in 2024."

Yep. So without RCID work on many of the roads through Disney property would have been at least partially paid for by local taxpayers. Instead that work was 100% paid for by only RCID taxpayers, or primarily Disney. The exact opposite of the narrative “Disney does not pay its fair share of taxes”. I believe that is called an inconvenient truth.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Ran across this article in a different thread, and couldn't help but notice the irony that Uni is building a new entry road to their EPIC expansion which is priced at $300M, with Uni contributing at least $174. Where's the balance of that $ coming from? Taxpayer funds??? And yet there's no outrage at that...

Documents reveal name Universal plans to give Epic Universe road

The new park is expected to open by summer 2025.

www.mynews13.com

From the article: "As for the Kirkman Road extension, the project is expected to help with traffic in that part of the tourist corridor. When finished, it will add a 1.7-mile connector between Carrier Drive and Universal Boulevard. The project has an estimated cost of $300 million, with Universal providing at least $164 million for the road work. It’s expected to be completed in 2024."

The project was planned even before Epic. By adding the extra money Universal made it possible to move forward.

Ran across this article in a different thread, and couldn't help but notice the irony that Uni is building a new entry road to their EPIC expansion which is priced at $300M, with Uni contributing at least $174. Where's the balance of that $ coming from? Taxpayer funds??? And yet there's no outrage at that...

Documents reveal name Universal plans to give Epic Universe road

The new park is expected to open by summer 2025.

www.mynews13.com

From the article: "As for the Kirkman Road extension, the project is expected to help with traffic in that part of the tourist corridor. When finished, it will add a 1.7-mile connector between Carrier Drive and Universal Boulevard. The project has an estimated cost of $300 million, with Universal providing at least $164 million for the road work. It’s expected to be completed in 2024."

https://www.orangecountyfl.net/Portals/0/Library/Traffic-Transportation/docs/Kirkman%20Road%20Extension%20Fact%20Sheet_ADA.pdf

 

[GoofGoof]

The project was planned even before Epic. By adding the extra money Universal made it possible to move forward.

https://www.orangecountyfl.net/Portals/0/Library/Traffic-Transportation/docs/Kirkman%20Road%20Extension%20Fact%20Sheet_ADA.pdf

Either way it’s still local taxpayers footing part of the bill for a road that obviously benefits Universal enough that they are footing the other half of the bill. Every RCID road project through Disney property was paid for by RCID taxpayers only. That’s a very significant savings for every other local taxpayer. If RCID didn’t exist Disney’s road projects would also need to be added to the long term plans for the counties and ultimately would lead to either higher taxes, other projects getting pushed back or cancelled to cut costs or most likely a combination of both.

 

[Skibum1970]

Either way it’s still local taxpayers footing part of the bill for a road that obviously benefits Universal enough that they are footing the other half of the bill. Every RCID road project through Disney property was paid for by RCID taxpayers only. That’s a very significant savings for every other local taxpayer. If RCID didn’t exist Disney’s road projects would also need to be added to the long term plans for the counties and ultimately would lead to either higher taxes, other projects getting pushed back or cancelled to cut costs or most likely a combination of both.

I can also see more red tape coming into play. Governments, state and federal, seem to delay things through the whole selection process of contractors, funding, and prioritization. I hope that this doesn't happen but it seems unlikely.

 

[mmascari]

If RCID didn’t exist Disney’s road projects would also need to be added to the long term plans for the counties and ultimately would lead to either higher taxes, other projects getting pushed back or cancelled to cut costs or most likely a combination of both.

I think it's safe to say it would definitely lead to worse traffic getting into the Disney parks.

On the one hand, the local tax payer doesn't want to sit in traffic.
On the other, they can avoid the roads leading to the parks and likely don't really care if tourists are stuck in traffic.

At least they don't care until it spills out far enough to impact them, or drives tourism down. Both of which take a long time and are much to late for a simple road update to solve.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Even without the District or municipalities, it seems unlikely that new roads at Walt Disney World would have been built by the county. You’re allowed to build and maintain private roads.

Think about something like a new subdivision. They don’t wait around for the local government to build the roads, the developer builds the roads and often most of the infrastructure. Many then hand over the roads to the local government but they don’t have to (such as gated communities) and I’m not sure the government has to accept the roads if they don’t want them.

 

[mmascari]

Even without the District or municipalities, it seems unlikely that new roads at Walt Disney World would have been built by the county. You’re allowed to build and maintain private roads.

Definitely true.

But, can you imagine Osceola Parkway being a private road instead? Push the entrance gates all the way out to the I4 exit ramps. Or, Buena Vista Dr or World Drive?

Way back when, Disney would have needed to keep ownership of all those roads and not transfer them to RCID. Now that they have, transferring them back to Disney would be difficult. Probably not impossible, but nobody has proposed that.

Likewise, wasn't there a recent project that added dedicated Disney bus lanes to some of these roads? If they were private roads, that would still work. But, if they were public maintained by the county, I cannot imagine the county deciding to add dedicated lanes for just one business was a good plan. I suppose they could have done it as toll lanes. Just charged a few million in tolls to cover the cost.....

Similarly, there's probably a bunch of liability differences that come into play. Today, if two cars get into an accident on World Drive and one of them blames a pot hole for causing the accident. It's a public roadway. If World Drive had never been turned into a public road, but was still a private road, is that more like an accident in a parking lot then?

Imagine if all the RCID owned land was still Disney owned land. One huge all private land continuous parcel with private everything. That would give some new meaning to being in the Disney bubble.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Definitely true.

But, can you imagine Osceola Parkway being a private road instead? Push the entrance gates all the way out to the I4 exit ramps. Or, Buena Vista Dr or World Drive?

Way back when, Disney would have needed to keep ownership of all those roads and not transfer them to RCID. Now that they have, transferring them back to Disney would be difficult. Probably not impossible, but nobody has proposed that.

Likewise, wasn't there a recent project that added dedicated Disney bus lanes to some of these roads? If they were private roads, that would still work. But, if they were public maintained by the county, I cannot imagine the county deciding to add dedicated lanes for just one business was a good plan. I suppose they could have done it as toll lanes. Just charged a few million in tolls to cover the cost.....

Similarly, there's probably a bunch of liability differences that come into play. Today, if two cars get into an accident on World Drive and one of them blames a pot hole for causing the accident. It's a public roadway. If World Drive had never been turned into a public road, but was still a private road, is that more like an accident in a parking lot then?

Imagine if all the RCID owned land was still Disney owned land. One huge all private land continuous parcel with private everything. That would give some new meaning to being in the Disney bubble.

Looking at the county’s interactive mapping, Osceola Parkway crosses over to Disney property just east of the parking lot for Disney’s Animal Kingdom. I don’t know if there aren’t other agreements, easements, etc. in play but the rest of it is shown as being on District right of way. How are incidents on that stretch handles? Why would it be different than hitting a pot hole next door at Orange Lake?

I believe the Lynx buses and other hotel buses also use the bus lanes on Buena Vista Dr. The same reason it would have been a problem for a county to build lanes for a private company would have made it a problem for the District to build bus lanes just for Disney. That said, the Kidman Rd extension is also getting bus lanes and that is very much at the behest of Universal Orlando Resort which will use them to transport guests between the north and south campuses. Like Buena Vista Dr, other buses (and Florida drivers) will use the lanes, but most of the traffic is sure to be one company’s buses.

 

[GoofGoof]

I can also see more red tape coming into play. Governments, state and federal, seem to delay things through the whole selection process of contractors, funding, and prioritization. I hope that this doesn't happen but it seems unlikely.

This is likely to happen in this situation more so than normal. If the Governor is appointing board members with no oversight they will be people he is rewarding for loyalty. In most situations those in charge still need to face citizens in future elections, but this is not the case if the board is appointed not elected. Since the local taxpayers will have no say the board can hire who they want to pave roads at whatever price they want. There will be limits and formalized procedures in place but we all know those can be circumvented to some extent. Any cost overruns can then be charged back to the taxpayer in the form of tax increases.

 

[GoofGoof]

Even without the District or municipalities, it seems unlikely that new roads at Walt Disney World would have been built by the county. You’re allowed to build and maintain private roads.

Think about something like a new subdivision. They don’t wait around for the local government to build the roads, the developer builds the roads and often most of the infrastructure. Many then hand over the roads to the local government but they don’t have to (such as gated communities) and I’m not sure the government has to accept the roads if they don’t want them.

I imagine some of the roads would have never been built and others may have been paid for in part or fully by Disney if RCID never existed. In most cases if they were highways they would be turned over to the county for maintenance. Who will be footing the maintenance bill for the road project Universal is paying half for? Did they agree to pay half the maintenance and upkeep costs going forward?

 

[Rich Brownn]

Either way it’s still local taxpayers footing part of the bill for a road that obviously benefits Universal enough that they are footing the other half of the bill. Every RCID road project through Disney property was paid for by RCID taxpayers only. That’s a very significant savings for every other local taxpayer. If RCID didn’t exist Disney’s road projects would also need to be added to the long term plans for the counties and ultimately would lead to either higher taxes, other projects getting pushed back or cancelled to cut costs or most likely a combination of both.

The interchanges that lead into WDW were not paid for by RCID. In fact the main overpass which mostly sits in Osceola county ended up being paid for by Orange.

 

[JoeCamel]

The interchanges that lead into WDW were not paid for by RCID. In fact the main overpass which mostly sits in Osceola county ended up being paid for by Orange.

Who bought the Mickey power pole?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I imagine some of the roads would have never been built and others may have been paid for in part or fully by Disney if RCID never existed. In most cases if they were highways they would be turned over to the county for maintenance. Who will be footing the maintenance bill for the road project Universal is paying half for? Did they agree to pay half the maintenance and upkeep costs going forward?

How would a county be forced to take ownership of something?

 

[mikejs78]

How would a county be forced to take ownership of something?

If the district were completely dissolved without a replacement, wouldn't all of the district's assets be turned over to the counties by default?

 

[lazyboy97o]

If the district were completely dissolved without a replacement, wouldn't all of the district's assets be turned over to the counties by default?

Yes, the current dissolution legislation does intend for the District’s assets to go to the counties because the District does pre-date the municipalities.

We’re talking though if no form of local government had ever been created and Walt Disney World was just within unincorporated county land. What became World Dr is on some of the earliest drawings of Walt Disney World. Win an alternate timeline without the District or municipalities, why would the counties have to accept ownership of World Dr if it was offered? Why could they not tell Disney they had to keep it?

There was an issue a few years ago in San Francisco where the city took possession of a private street due to non-payment of taxes. If I am recalled correctly the owners let it lapse thinking the city would take it and voila, they’re free of an expense (although I may be getting that wrong and it was just due to negligence). Either way, the city did not just keep the street, they turned around and sold it off.

 

[GoofGoof]

How would a county be forced to take ownership of something?

Why would they be forced? Are they forced to take ownership of the road being built for Universal? Companies have lobbyists and as very significant parts of the local economy they will ask for and get a lot of what they need. In all reality the roads and infrastructure are necessary for economic development which greatly benefits the area so they probably should.

 

[GoofGoof]

The interchanges that lead into WDW were not paid for by RCID. In fact the main overpass which mostly sits in Osceola county ended up being paid for by Orange.

Which interchange? Are we talking about roads that are part of RCID?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why would they be forced? Are they forced to take ownership of the road being built for Universal? Companies have lobbyists and as very significant parts of the local economy they will ask for and get a lot of what they need. In all reality the roads and infrastructure are necessary for economic development which greatly benefits the area so they probably should.

People keep talking about how the county would have had to pay for all of the roads at Walt Disney World. Private developments build, own and maintain their own rides. There’s nothing that requires roads to be built and maintained by a local government.

If there was no District or municipalities, the county would have no obligation to build or maintain World Dr which existed fully within Disney owned property. Disney could build World Dr and try to transfer ownership to the county, but why would the county have to accept that transfer of ownership?

The Kirkman Road extension is a little different in that it already existed on county plans but it also crosses and interfaces with different owners. Universal, also wanting it, offered to provide much of the land without an eminent domain fight, financing and actually getting it built. I’m not able to easily find the maintenance agreement but there wouldn’t be a need for such an agreement if the county was assuming full responsibility.