News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[RamblinWreck]

WDW is the lifeblood of the company. Iger needs to swallow his pride and contact the governor and strike some type of deal.

There are no deals to be made with people who have no capacity to make deals.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Just a quick question. How does Universal Studios invest and build with apparently no issues in Orlando? Last I checked Universal’s Epic Universe is progressing just fine.

Is this a serious question?

They aren’t subjected to an obstructionist, unelected board in a district that oversees them that was put in place specifically to cause problems for them.

 

[RamblinWreck]

Trying to make a case about the governor appointing the board members would be might be the dumbest legal move Disney could make, and in this case it would have plenty of competition (I really loved the "But universal got a district filing). The governor almost always appoints the first board of a special district, just like the governor at the time did for Reedy Creek.

Well, this isn’t a new district.

 

[WoundedDreamer]

Wrong again. It.had been in the works for years. It was approved by the state in the fall of 22 which was the last step needed before finalization of the agreement.





What procedural issues? What illegal components? There aren't any. Ones identified do not invalidate the agreement according to the Reedy Creek Act, which was the governing legislation in this case. You're barking up the wrong tree.

The issue with the CFTOD's so-called "procedural issues" is that they both lack evidence and standing (which affected landowner did not get notice?) and/or don't apply to Reedy Creek as they used procedural rules found in general Florida law, but that are overridden by provisions in the Reedy Creek Act, which took precedence over General Florida Law in Reedy Creek's case. There is nothing that Disney did that violated procedure. Nothing. At. All.

The audit goes through them. I know the audit isn't you cup of tea, but it's pretty comprehensive. I found the argument in the audit compelling along with the exhibits included. When I heard about the audit on this forum, I was expecting a partisan and just embarrassing document. Instead, I found a well researched and thorough document with the evidence to prove its claims. I immediately went from thinking Disney could win the state suit no problem to being pretty fatalistic. I always doubted the first amendment case (limiting the legislatures authority to regulate local governments seemed far fetched). But the state case on the contract I was expecting to be a slam dunk for Disney. The audit shocked me. I fully expect Disney is going to get defeated in the state case.

 

[RamblinWreck]

The audit goes through them. I know the audit isn't you cup of tea, but it's pretty comprehensive. I found the argument in the audit compelling along with the exhibits included. When I heard about the audit on this forum, I was expecting a partisan and just embarrassing document. Instead, I found a well researched and thorough document with the evidence to prove its claims. I immediately went from thinking Disney could win the state suit no problem to being pretty fatalistic. I always doubted the first amendment case (limiting the legislatures authority to regulate local governments seemed far fetched). But the state case on the contract I was expecting to be a slam dunk for Disney. The audit shocked me. I fully expect Disney is going to get defeated in the state case.

The state case doesn’t even have a reason to exist. The contract was voided retroactively by a new targeted law.

 

[Brian]

Disney appeals dismissal of free speech lawsuit as DeSantis says company should ‘move on’​

Disney appeals dismissal of free speech lawsuit as DeSantis says company should 'move on'

The company had said after Wednesday's decision that it would set a dangerous precedent if left unchallenged by giving states the green light to weaponize their powers to punish opposing viewpoints.

www.pbs.org

 

[Chi84]

The only thing that gives me any hope that justice or common sense will prevail is how forcefully the 11th circuit slapped down DeSantis for his complete disregard for the constitution and specifically the first amendment a few weeks ago.

This case is a bit more complex though.

There's a saying that hard cases make bad law. The situation here is unique in that retaliation is usually limited to its intended target. As another poster pointed out, the governor was so eager to start a fight with Disney for political purposes that he was willing to make the retaliatory law broad enough to cause collateral damage.

The courts are going to have to decide whether redressing this injury is worth extending or interpreting the law to cover such an unusual occurrence. The case will then stand as precedent and may cause some damage in unforeseen circumstances.

 

[Brian]

Easy for him to say after he put them in this mess.

He's not alone in saying it. According to the article:

“Maybe Disney should go back to lobbying and writing checks,” said Richard Foglesong, a Rollins College professor emeritus who wrote a definitive account of Disney World’s governance in his book, “Married to the Mouse: Walt Disney World and Orlando.”

“As the judge’s ruling shows, they erred in using the courts to resolve a political question,” Foglesong said Thursday. “Everyone knows the Legislature’s act was retaliatory toward Disney. It just wasn’t provable by legal standards.”

 

[Figgy1]

He's not alone in saying it. According to the article:

So a company should have to resort to bribery?

 

[Brian]

So a company should have to resort to bribery?

According to Foglesong, yes.

Imho, this does strike me as a political question and not a legal one. Disney would be wise to pressure DeSantis and the legislature by withholding future development, and mounting a public relations campaign against them, in order to bring him to the negotiating table.

That's how this gets resolved, in my mind. Disney may have a case against CFTOD for monetary damages, but there wouldn't be a remedy to revert things back to the old RCID.

 

[WoundedDreamer]

According to Foglesong, yes.

Imho, this does strike me as a political question and not a legal one. Disney would be wise to pressure DeSantis and the legislature by withholding future development, and mounting a public relations campaign against them, in order to bring him to the negotiating table.

I don't think this a winning strategy. This is a critical time for Walt Disney World. Universal is launching an onslaught with Epic Universe. While the park is not too appealing to me, I know many fans of HP, Nintendo, and Universal in general who will be in their glory. At the very least Epic Universe seems likely to make the Florida market more competitive. At worst it could actually cause attendance at WDW to stall or even contract.

At the same time Walt Disney World is increasingly stale. Space Mountain, Big Thunder, and the Fantasyland dark rides all need investment to get them up to 21st Century standards. DHS remains terribly under built. Epcot needs further investment. And DAK is could use more too. This is the time when Disney needs to go all out. And with Epic Universe's opening date looming closer and closer, all we know about is a Princess and the Frog makeover of Splash Mountain and Country Bears singing Disney tunes.

And what I was able to discern very quickly from the presentation was Epic Universe is only phase 1. Universal will probably get building new lands as soon as the theme park opens. Universal is frankly terrifying. Disney lost their chance to go on strike. Grandstanding is not going to beat Universal. Only new rides will. It's like the barbarians are at the gates and Disney is not bothering to take any precautions. It's wild and insane.

Disney can't afford not to invest in Florida.

 

[mmascari]

willing to make the retaliatory law broad enough to cause collateral damage.

There's definitely a subtle but important difference between "this thing targets X and Y, Z were impacted as collateral damage" and "this thing impacts X, Y, Z, and X is arguing they were targeted".

In both cases, X, Y, and Z are all impacted.

Certainly groups creating the impact have been known to go to great lengths to make it look like the second one. The second is also useful cover for all kinds of bad behavior.

In this specific case, the judge's ruling to me seems to be that it's the second. That reading only the law and nothing else, that the law doesn't specifically say "Disney", so it must be the second. If the only other things that existed were media interviews and public speaking, that might make sense. The whole "there's no way to know what the legislature was thinking" line of argument. However, the official record of debate from the legislature sessions exist. We even refer to statements made in session as "entering them on the record". If we're to ignore that official record and treat it the same way as random media statement, then what's the point of that official record. In this specific case, while not in the text of the law, there are direct statements targeting Disney in the official record. That record should be considered in the goal of the legislation.

Of course, this does mean, people will be more careful next time, to not enter this type of statement into an official record and avoid this problem.

 

[mmascari]

Imho, this does strike me as a political question and not a legal one.

It was a political question, right up until the legislature passed the first law. Then, it became a legal one. As legal interactions go, when they passed the second law, it got much worse. It was the governor and legislature that converted this from a political to a legal interaction.

Disney would be wise to pressure DeSantis and the legislature by withholding future development, and mounting a public relations campaign against them, in order to bring him to the negotiating table.

Isn't that exactly what they did? Not even so much future development, but just public relations and future political spending.

Instead of bringing DeSantis and the legislature to a negotiating table, or even starting any kind of dialog at all, DeSantis and the legislature responded by using the power of the state to remove representative governing from the district and replace it with political appointees.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney should wait it out.

TWDC should take this time, not to fight useless battles, but to plan a response to EPIC, and have a real actual plan if they need to react to EPIC.

 

[Chi84]

It was a political question, right up until the legislature passed the first law. Then, it became a legal one. As legal interactions go, when they passed the second law, it got much worse. It was the governor and legislature that converted this from a political to a legal interaction.


Isn't that exactly what they did? Not even so much future development, but just public relations and future political spending.

Instead of bringing DeSantis and the legislature to a negotiating table, or even starting any kind of dialog at all, DeSantis and the legislature responded by using the power of the state to remove representative governing from the district and replace it with political appointees.

The law is designed to protect the political process as well as individual liberties. That's evident from the district court's cite to the Hobart case, which said "The political process is not impaired when legislators are merely forbidden to engage in invidious discrimination. It is impaired when legislators are forbidden to favor their supporters and disfavor their opponents."

The question is where the courts decide this case falls in that balance.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Not singling you out or anything but I think this post establishes perfectly shows why they can't back down:

This is not a winning strategy. As I can demonstrate below, let's take these points one at a time

While, yes this is possible. If they "waited it out" the amount of damage he could do in those 3 years could absolutely ruin Disney for the foreseeable future. I know some in this thread will say "the board hasn't done anything that drastic yet" and they would be right. The problem isn't what they have done but what they could do.

There is also no guarantee the next governor would be willing to play ball with Disney and make things any easier with them. Though, I don't see how things could be much worse.

This in theory, could happen but the same board appointed by DeSantis will still be in charge:

According to the board's website board members "hold office for a staggered term of two to four years". So if I am reading this right wouldn't they still be members for the remainder of their term?

If they don't win this, the precedent set here is very bad. What happens from say Universal putting out anything that DeSantis doesn't agree with and punishing them. This cannot be allowed to stand for really any business in the US.

Disney will never be able to get everything it wants. The only way to do that is to get RCID restored, even if they win I don't know what that would look like since all staff has already quit.

Bonus Round:

If what is being said in this thread is accurate, they will not be able to plan a response to EPIC if the board is not allowing new permits to be approved.

Also, as said above this is not a "useless battle"

Again, I am not trying to single anyone out but this is just how I see things. If I am wrong feel free to correct me.

I admit I do not know the process, but not sure if permits are needed to plan a response, Disney knows what is possible and how to do things, they have been doing it for over 50 years in WDW, the permits are just paper work.

I guess useless is the wrong word. More accurate is, battles that will make no real difference win or lose. If Disney wants their RCID back, they should wait until you know who is out of there instead using resources fighting you know who right now.

 

[JoeCamel]

It might be an unpopular opinion but DeSantis’ term ends in 3 years.

If Disney’s appeal is denied, then Disney’s best strategy might be to simply wait it out and work with the 2026 gubernatorial front runner.

I wonder if Bob would be satisfied running Florida? His shot at running the country is out but he's going to be looking for a job about that time.....

 

[Disstevefan1]

I wonder if Bob would be satisfied running Florida? His shot at running the country is out but he's going to be looking for a job about that time.....

Bob is never leaving TWDC.....

 

[Dranth]

I guess useless is the wrong word. More accurate is, battles that will make no real difference win or lose. If Disney wants their RCID back, they should wait until you know who is out of there instead using resources fighting you know who right now.

If the current ruling holds up, I wouldn't want RCID back. I would want the whole thing dissolved rather than deal with the shallow ego of every politician going forward for the rest of time. The only way to avoid being a pawn for someone's campaign is to not be in any special district. Stinks for local residents as it was a great way to avoid increased taxes going to support a business but why would ANY business want to be in one when there is no longer any upside.

Regardless, that doesn't make the current court fights meaningless. They work if they succeed or if not, they act as a delaying action.

 

[Surferboy567]

I admit I do not know the process, but not sure if permits are needed to plan a response, Disney knows what is possible and how to do things, they have been doing it for over 50 years in WDW, the permits are just paper work.

I guess useless is the wrong word. More accurate is, battles that will make no real difference win or lose. If Disney wants their RCID back, they should wait until you know who is out of there instead using resources fighting you know who right now.

I also don't know the process but I think they could plan all they want permits still need to be filed. This has never been something they have had to deal with in the entire 50 years of WDW. Permits have been but open hostility from people approving or denying permits that has not happened.

I can also see where your second point comes from but I don't think they can just sit back and "take it" the whole thing is a mess and no one truly wins.