News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mmascari]

Imho, this does strike me as a political question and not a legal one.

It was a political question, right up until the legislature passed the first law. Then, it became a legal one. As legal interactions go, when they passed the second law, it got much worse. It was the governor and legislature that converted this from a political to a legal interaction.

Disney would be wise to pressure DeSantis and the legislature by withholding future development, and mounting a public relations campaign against them, in order to bring him to the negotiating table.

Isn't that exactly what they did? Not even so much future development, but just public relations and future political spending.

Instead of bringing DeSantis and the legislature to a negotiating table, or even starting any kind of dialog at all, DeSantis and the legislature responded by using the power of the state to remove representative governing from the district and replace it with political appointees.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney should wait it out.

TWDC should take this time, not to fight useless battles, but to plan a response to EPIC, and have a real actual plan if they need to react to EPIC.

 

[Chi84]

It was a political question, right up until the legislature passed the first law. Then, it became a legal one. As legal interactions go, when they passed the second law, it got much worse. It was the governor and legislature that converted this from a political to a legal interaction.


Isn't that exactly what they did? Not even so much future development, but just public relations and future political spending.

Instead of bringing DeSantis and the legislature to a negotiating table, or even starting any kind of dialog at all, DeSantis and the legislature responded by using the power of the state to remove representative governing from the district and replace it with political appointees.

The law is designed to protect the political process as well as individual liberties. That's evident from the district court's cite to the Hobart case, which said "The political process is not impaired when legislators are merely forbidden to engage in invidious discrimination. It is impaired when legislators are forbidden to favor their supporters and disfavor their opponents."

The question is where the courts decide this case falls in that balance.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Not singling you out or anything but I think this post establishes perfectly shows why they can't back down:

This is not a winning strategy. As I can demonstrate below, let's take these points one at a time

While, yes this is possible. If they "waited it out" the amount of damage he could do in those 3 years could absolutely ruin Disney for the foreseeable future. I know some in this thread will say "the board hasn't done anything that drastic yet" and they would be right. The problem isn't what they have done but what they could do.

There is also no guarantee the next governor would be willing to play ball with Disney and make things any easier with them. Though, I don't see how things could be much worse.

This in theory, could happen but the same board appointed by DeSantis will still be in charge:

According to the board's website board members "hold office for a staggered term of two to four years". So if I am reading this right wouldn't they still be members for the remainder of their term?

If they don't win this, the precedent set here is very bad. What happens from say Universal putting out anything that DeSantis doesn't agree with and punishing them. This cannot be allowed to stand for really any business in the US.

Disney will never be able to get everything it wants. The only way to do that is to get RCID restored, even if they win I don't know what that would look like since all staff has already quit.

Bonus Round:

If what is being said in this thread is accurate, they will not be able to plan a response to EPIC if the board is not allowing new permits to be approved.

Also, as said above this is not a "useless battle"

Again, I am not trying to single anyone out but this is just how I see things. If I am wrong feel free to correct me.

I admit I do not know the process, but not sure if permits are needed to plan a response, Disney knows what is possible and how to do things, they have been doing it for over 50 years in WDW, the permits are just paper work.

I guess useless is the wrong word. More accurate is, battles that will make no real difference win or lose. If Disney wants their RCID back, they should wait until you know who is out of there instead using resources fighting you know who right now.

 

[JoeCamel]

It might be an unpopular opinion but DeSantis’ term ends in 3 years.

If Disney’s appeal is denied, then Disney’s best strategy might be to simply wait it out and work with the 2026 gubernatorial front runner.

I wonder if Bob would be satisfied running Florida? His shot at running the country is out but he's going to be looking for a job about that time.....

 

[Disstevefan1]

I wonder if Bob would be satisfied running Florida? His shot at running the country is out but he's going to be looking for a job about that time.....

Bob is never leaving TWDC.....

 

[Dranth]

I guess useless is the wrong word. More accurate is, battles that will make no real difference win or lose. If Disney wants their RCID back, they should wait until you know who is out of there instead using resources fighting you know who right now.

If the current ruling holds up, I wouldn't want RCID back. I would want the whole thing dissolved rather than deal with the shallow ego of every politician going forward for the rest of time. The only way to avoid being a pawn for someone's campaign is to not be in any special district. Stinks for local residents as it was a great way to avoid increased taxes going to support a business but why would ANY business want to be in one when there is no longer any upside.

Regardless, that doesn't make the current court fights meaningless. They work if they succeed or if not, they act as a delaying action.

 

[Surferboy567]

I admit I do not know the process, but not sure if permits are needed to plan a response, Disney knows what is possible and how to do things, they have been doing it for over 50 years in WDW, the permits are just paper work.

I guess useless is the wrong word. More accurate is, battles that will make no real difference win or lose. If Disney wants their RCID back, they should wait until you know who is out of there instead using resources fighting you know who right now.

I also don't know the process but I think they could plan all they want permits still need to be filed. This has never been something they have had to deal with in the entire 50 years of WDW. Permits have been but open hostility from people approving or denying permits that has not happened.

I can also see where your second point comes from but I don't think they can just sit back and "take it" the whole thing is a mess and no one truly wins.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Ok Wreck…….ridiculous comment full of rambling fit for your name. Let’s see once this nonsense plays out in court and listen to your rambling then…..I happen to live in Florida and many Board Seats are appointed because who would want the job having to deal with a bunch of Ramblin Wrecks…..

Name another appointed District in the state that has the power to levy property taxes with no input from either residents or landowners.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I also don't know the process but I think they could plan all they want permits still need to be filed. This has never been something they have had to deal with in the entire 50 years of WDW. Permits have been but open hostility from people approving or denying permits that has not happened.

I can also see where your second point comes from but I don't think they can just sit back and "take it" the whole thing is a mess and no one truly wins.

Right now building permits are handled administratively by the building department. This approval is all about code compliance which in the US a rather prescriptive.

That’s different from the planning and development process which is tied to zoning. This is the earlier process that people typically think of when development projects get bogged down by officials. How this type of permission is granted varies wildly from place to place and even within a single jurisdiction. This is the process that killed the Eastern Gateway at the Disneyland Resort but Disney responded by building another parking garage on the west side where the didn’t need permission. Right now, so long as what Disney wants to build is in line with the land development regulations then they don’t need permission from the zoning board that is now the Board of Supervisors. This is why the District is suing Disney, because the development agreement locks in place the existing land development regulations. They want to change those regulations to get themselves involved because it’s where they can object over all sorts of vague reasons.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If the current ruling holds up, I wouldn't want RCID back. I would want the whole thing dissolved rather than deal with the shallow ego of every politician going forward for the rest of time. The only way to avoid being a pawn for someone's campaign is to not be in any special district. Stinks for local residents as it was a great way to avoid increased taxes going to support a business but why would ANY business want to be in one when there is no longer any upside.

Regardless, that doesn't make the current court fights meaningless. They work if they succeed or if not, they act as a delaying action. You need to chew up the clock while keeping Ron's goons busy.

We must say, over 50 years was a great run for Disney to have control over the district.

It took one person to wreck it.

 

[mikejs78]

Worth noting - just today, Judge Winser was overturned again by the court of appeals. Again it involved a question of the constitutionality of a DeSantis-backed law.

I won't get into the specifics of that case as it isn't on topic here, but thought it worth pointing out. It seems this judge has a track record of siding with DeSantis, only to be overturned on appeal.

 

[Brian]

This is not directly related to RCID/CFTOD, and as far as I know the motives behind its drafting are pure, but it would end up affecting CFTOD down the line. Though it would appear the provision requiring a referendum of landowners every 10 years to continue the district has been removed from the bill.

Florida legislation bolstering oversight for special districts, dissolving others, passes House​

Florida legislation bolstering oversight for special districts, dissolving others, passes House

Legislation implementing new oversight and accountability measures on special districts, while also dissolving inactive districts, passed the House floor unanimously on Thursday.

flvoicenews.com

 

[Goofyernmost]

Iger needs to get his backside on his private jet and fly to Tallahassee with his legal team and beg to stop this. If DeSantis still refused to work after Iger physically coming to bring an olive branch, I'd feel differently. But last I heard Iger sent the DeSantis camp a message using one of his underlings about potentially having a meet. Nothing happened. He needs to camp out at the statehouse until he's seen. Would it be humiliating? Yeah. But he needs to end this for the good of the Walt Disney Company. This should be one of his top priorities.

He needs to play ball and take the humiliation. He famously suffered a grueling and humiliating ordeal with the Chinese Government (reported by @WDW1974). His patience with that ordeal saw the successful launch of Shanghai Disney. We need that Iger back. What happened to Iger the diplomat who could handle difficult relationships with people like Steve Jobs and President Xi? Now Iger can't even handle the Florida governor. This is pathetic.

Or maybe the Disney board should get a CEO who knows how to fix this. Floridians are not evil. They have tremendous amount of goodwill towards Disney. They will forgive and forget if given the chance. But that process can only stop by putting this process behind them. Moreover, shareholders deserve to have solid and level governance. Playing fast and loose with one of the company's most prized assets is insane.

There is nothing to "forgive and forget" on the publics part. And if people don't think that making a stand to prevent the government from punishing you for talking against them, then we are all in big, big trouble. You know the Joni Mitchell song about You don't know what you've got til it's gone will hit hard if we let this just happen. Because if it happened once it will happen again. Wake up, this is a serious, serious threat to the most important freedom we are supposed to have.
Unlike how it normally is looked at, freedom of speech amendment is only about the government not being able prevent you from having the right to speak your mind about your government and only your government. It has been expanded in our minds to make us think that it is about anything, like slander, that we might want to express to our neighbors, but it is not. It is actually one of the most direct assaults on the constitution that we have witnessed for a long time.

 

[JoeCamel]

This is not directly related to RCID/CFTOD, and as far as I know the motives behind its drafting are pure, but it would end up affecting CFTOD down the line. Though it would appear the provision requiring a referendum of landowners every 10 years to continue the district has been removed from the bill.

Florida legislation bolstering oversight for special districts, dissolving others, passes House​

Florida legislation bolstering oversight for special districts, dissolving others, passes House

Legislation implementing new oversight and accountability measures on special districts, while also dissolving inactive districts, passed the House floor unanimously on Thursday.

flvoicenews.com

I get vertigo reading stuff that leans that far to the right

 

[Nubs70]

I'm not a lawyer, but I've seen one on TV.

Doesn't the appeals court just need to determine that one of the conditions the judge used to restrict the case was incorrect and then kick it back down to re-evaluate without that condition.

For instance, the appeals court could determine that Disney was targeted and the other districts were caught as collateral damage instead of the current court determination that Disney was not targeted because other districts were also impacted.

Flip that one decision on appeal, and everything about the dismissal changes. That would be it, and the case would pick back up in the current court.

It's not like there is a lack of evidence that Disney was targeted.

Appeals are for procedural objections not refinding of fact.

 

[Figgy1]

I get vertigo reading stuff that leans that far to the right

This could be either very good, very bad or a net neutral depending on the specific language. If this does make it possible for landowners to dissolve a district in 12 years Disney could toss everything onto the counties in the future which is what made the legislature screw this up in the first place. I'm wondering what happens to the debt of the districts?????
The words cluster of epic proportions comes to mind

 

[JoeCamel]

This could be either very good, very bad or a net neutral depending on the specific language. If this does make it possible for landowners to dissolve a district in 12 years Disney could toss everything onto the counties in the future which is what made the legislature screw this up in the first place. I'm wondering what happens to the debt of the districts?????
The words cluster of epic proportions comes to mind

Its speculation

 

[Figgy1]

Its speculation

I'm speculating the whole thing is going to turn into a giant cluster considering how the whole thing started

 

[JoeCamel]

I'm speculating the whole thing is going to turn into a giant cluster considering how the whole thing started

At least for a few more years, I hope WDW can come out the other side intact.