News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[LAKid53]

The District and the municipalities do set their own millage rate. The District even has the power to assess higher millage rates than other local governments.

The announcement of lowering the millage rate was a lie because they announced changes to the cities’ millage rates that they do not control.

And that's the beauty of a special district....it can set rates that differ from local governments - cities, counties - in the area.

 

[Isamar]

And that's the beauty of a special district....it can set rates that differ from local governments - cities, counties - in the area.

And of course the district’s taxpayers (mostly Disney) ALSO pay the counties’ property taxes.

 

[Stripes]

In order for a special district with ad valorem taxing authority to be created in Florida, do the property owners inside the proposed district have approve it?

I don’t quite understand how it would be legal for the state to simply create a new special district and increase taxes on a local area without local approval.

Let’s say I live in Miami and the state is upset with our local politics. What is stopping them from creating a special district with state controlled board in Miami and setting the millage rate at 100 mils?

 

[lazyboy97o]

In order for a special district with ad valorem taxing authority to be created in Florida, do the property owners inside the proposed district have approve it?

I don’t quite understand how it would be legal for the state to simply create a new special district and increase taxes on a local area without local approval.

Let’s say I live in Miami and the state is upset with our local politics. What is stopping them from creating a special district with state controlled board in Miami and setting the millage rate at 100 mils?

Property owner approval is required. In some cases like with community development districts, the requirement is unanimous written approval.

The scenario you describe is exactly why CFTOD should be such a worrying precedent. It’s a blueprint for state governments to seize control from local governments.

While “First Amendment” concerns are the sexy issue, the District seems to run afoul of a number of other state laws and constitutional provisions.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

The announcement of lowering the millage rate was a lie because they announced changes to the cities’ millage rates that they do not control.

That was my point about their lies.

 

[lazyboy97o]

That was my point about their lies.

You said only the counties can change the mileage rate. The District has their own separate millage rate that they can change (although there are legal questions about their authority to raise the rate).

 

[mikejs78]

You said only the counties can change the mileage rate. The District has their own separate millage rate that they can change (although there are legal questions about their authority to raise the rate).

I've wondered why Disney wasn't suing on those grounds. Maybe they are holding that one for when the district actually tries to raise the rate...

 

[LAKid53]

Property owner approval is required. In some cases like with community development districts, the requirement is unanimous written approval.

The scenario you describe is exactly why CFTOD should be such a worrying precedent. It’s a blueprint for state governments to seize control from local governments.

While “First Amendment” concerns are the sexy issue, the District seems to run afoul of a number of other state laws and constitutional provisions.

Which, under the Home Rules Power Act in the Florida Constitution would be unconstitutional. But the FL Legislature overtime has chipped away at the Act. Unconstitutionally, in my opinion.

 

[maxairmike]

I've wondered why Disney wasn't suing on those grounds. Maybe they are holding that one for when the district actually tries to raise the rate...

That’s what I expect. And based on how poorly the District’s attempts at PR and messaging have been (despite some believing them), I wouldn’t be surprised to see this happen whenever such a proposal would need to happen at the latest to slide into the next year’s budget. I believe their fiscal calendar follows the Disney fiscal calendar, so it’s likely too late for the fiscal 2024 budget, thankfully.

Maybe some fireworks to start off the calendar year with suggestions they need to raise the millage for 2025 with some BS study around a perfectly normal practice/expenditure that they’ll try to spin as inappropriate and the fix is more expensive…but ignore the expensive litigation against Disney.

 

[JoeCamel]

That’s what I expect. And based on how poorly the District’s attempts at PR and messaging have been (despite some believing them), I wouldn’t be surprised to see this happen whenever such a proposal would need to happen at the latest to slide into the next year’s budget. I believe their fiscal calendar follows the Disney fiscal calendar, so it’s likely too late for the fiscal 2024 budget, thankfully.

Maybe some fireworks to start off the calendar year with suggestions they need to raise the millage for 2025 with some BS study around a perfectly normal practice/expenditure that they’ll try to spin as inappropriate and the fix is more expensive…but ignore the expensive litigation against Disney.

You have a much better case if you can show actual damage, have they actually raised the millage yet?
TDO does a great job of challenging Orange County valuations of their property and I would expect no less on the millage rate.

 

[Isamar]

You said only the counties can change the mileage rate. The District has their own separate millage rate that they can change (although there are legal questions about their authority to raise the rate).

I *think* RCID (and now its successor) was specifically empowered to set a millage rate of up to 30%.
My impression is that the current board doesn’t want to immediately raise the rate because of the business owners who showed up at some early meetings to express fears about higher taxes to pay for litigation and to hire the plethora of consultants proposed by the new board. The business owners were all tenants of Disney (ie. Disney is actually the taxpayer even on those properties, but the taxes are paid by the lessee per the lease agreement). Killing other businesses off in the first year might interfere with their PR campaign. (Just my personal impression based on the meetings.)

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which, under the Home Rules Power Act in the Florida Constitution would be unconstitutional. But the FL Legislature overtime has chipped away at the Act. Unconstitutionally, in my opinion.

I’m wondering if you’re gonna “come onboard” and accept that the “laws” there aren’t worth what they’re printed on?

It didn’t used to be that way…Florida was rather delightfully boring when the WW2 generation built the place…
…but they are long gone and their sensibilities died with them.

So it’s all crackpots on the fly…
Don’t expect to see James Madison, Hamilton, Lincoln or FDR walking around Tallahassee anytime soon.

Hell…I’d settle for Gerald ford…

This whole RCID thing has been political vanity/stupidity on public display

And I’m not a big documented fan of the management of TWDC…

But there’s no nuance to what this all is and how low rent.

 

[mmascari]

Let’s say I live in Miami and the state is upset with our local politics. What is stopping them from creating a special district with state controlled board in Miami and setting the millage rate at 100 mils?

Property owner approval is required. In some cases like with community development districts, the requirement is unanimous written approval.

The scenario you describe is exactly why CFTOD should be such a worrying precedent. It’s a blueprint for state governments to seize control from local governments.

Exactly this.

While creating a new district would clearly be a problem and easily challenged, the CFTOD shows that they could just replace the existing elected government with another one. So instead of creating a new district overlay to punish you, instead they would replace the mayor and board of commissioners with governor appointed people instead of elected officials. This new government would not be accountable to the people of Miami at all, only the governor.

Then just repeat for the counties and other cities that are out of line too.

 

[LAKid53]

Exactly this.

While creating a new district would clearly be a problem and easily challenged, the CFTOD shows that they could just replace the existing elected government with another one. So instead of creating a new district overlay to punish you, instead they would replace the mayor and board of commissioners with governor appointed people instead of elected officials. This new government would not be accountable to the people of Miami at all, only the governor.

Then just repeat for the counties and other cities that are out of line too.

And expect a constitutional challenge if they did.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Exactly this.

While creating a new district would clearly be a problem and easily challenged, the CFTOD shows that they could just replace the existing elected government with another one. So instead of creating a new district overlay to punish you, instead they would replace the mayor and board of commissioners with governor appointed people instead of elected officials. This new government would not be accountable to the people of Miami at all, only the governor.

Then just repeat for the counties and other cities that are out of line too.

Perfectly stated. We’re across the river now.

And expect a constitutional challenge if they did.

I don’t think anyone cares…to be honest. As long as they’re “owning” the other 49 states…misssion: accomplished

These people picked a fight with their state’s biggest employer…by choice…and had no qualms

That’s like a line on the stone tablets of “what never to do in poltics”

It’s all out the window

 

[mmascari]

And expect a constitutional challenge if they did.

I am surprised Disney didn't challenge the change in the board from elected to appointed. That seemed like an obvious thing to dispute. Especially since a Disney loss would set precedent the state can replace any local elected government with appointments. That would be a bold stance from a court.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am surprised Disney didn't challenge the change in the board from elected to appointed. That seemed like an obvious thing to dispute. Especially since a Disney loss would set precedent the state can replace any local elected government with appointments. That would be a bold stance from a court.

That would have been a state challenge (state constitution) and Disney is 100% relying on the federal courts.

State actions seem to be “playing it out” on Disneys part

Kinda tells you all you need to know?

 

[Chi84]

I am surprised Disney didn't challenge the change in the board from elected to appointed. That seemed like an obvious thing to dispute. Especially since a Disney loss would set precedent the state can replace any local elected government with appointments. That would be a bold stance from a court.

They're asking for very broad relief in the federal complaint. Count 5 alleges that "The retaliatory reconstitution of Disney's governing body's structure through the enactments of Senate Bill 4C and House Bill 9B have chilled and continue to chill Disney's protected speech. *** Disney has a significant interest in its governing body's composition and structure, which has been directly targeted by the enactment of legislation providing for its complete revision. Disney faces concrete, imminent, and ongoing injury as a result of CFTOD's new powers and composition."

Pleadings are meant to constitute an outline of what is contested. I think Disney's are broad enough to encompass the type of challenge you mention.

 

[mmascari]

"The retaliatory reconstitution of Disney's governing body's structure through the enactments of Senate Bill 4C and House Bill 9B have chilled and continue to chill Disney's protected speech. *** Disney has a significant interest in its governing body's composition and structure, which has been directly targeted by the enactment of legislation providing for its complete revision. Disney faces concrete, imminent, and ongoing injury as a result of CFTOD's new powers and composition."

If I strikethrough those parts, everything is still true. I would think those parts make it a first amendment claim. Without them, I would think they could still make a representation claim. The representation one likely is a state question, not federal though. Based on whatever FL law covers how governments are run.

Pleadings are meant to constitute an outline of what is contested. I think Disney's are broad enough to encompass the type of challenge you mention.

Maybe they're thinking they could file in State court later if they lose the federal case first amendment claim.

Obviously, if they win the first amendment claim, all the other questions go away. If they lose the first amendment claim in federal court, I would assume they could still make a representation claim in state court.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe they're thinking they could file in State court later if they lose the federal case first amendment claim.

Obviously, if they win the first amendment claim, all the other questions go away. If they lose the first amendment claim in federal court, I would assume they could still make a representation claim in state court.

They really have no shot in state.

It’s G-mandered to hell…so no chance of legislative relief

The judges are appointed on the higher levels by Crazy Jag’s office in the state and the lower ones are elected in the Same G-mandered districts…No judicial relief

And then there’s the “executive”



Disney has no means to kill/reset this whole thing in the state

It will come where all the movers and shakers go: federal court in Delaware, baby!!!