News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[MisterPenguin]

Good grief you are such a literal person! I and everyone else know that the FLORIDA LEGISLATURE created RCID. ...

I'm done with this back and forth unless it is not just nitpicking or misinterpretation of statements.

The reason people are nitpicking is because people defending the state's actions use such misinformation to make the case that there was something intrinsically wrong with the RCID as it was founded.

Repeating their misinformation is a sore topic amongst those, like you, are against the state's actions.

That's why we nitpick on the facts, they matter greatly in this discourse.

 

[LAKid53]

Good grief you are such a literal person! I and everyone else know that the FLORIDA LEGISLATURE created RCID. How much has to be said before you realize the it was at the request of the Disney Co. It didn't just materialize. It was a mutual agreement between WDW and the FLORIDA LEGISLATURE. Thanks though for schooling me on stuff that I already know.

You can go ahead and ignore the whys and they way it was set up, because Disney was the land owner of the area they were going to exercise that power strictly within the boundaries of that Disney property. Disney's votes elected the people that were going to oversee their property's infrastructure and general structures within that property. They were given the "power" to organize and maintain and establish the rules based on law and the needs of TWDC and it's resort in Central Florida. It was and continued to be a well run operation until certain people decided that it would be a good idea to silence one of the largest tax generators in the entire state.

The state is supposed to authorize or illuminate the agreement but it should be for a good reason, not just because someone's ego was bruised. Not a single thing has been found that is incriminating. You know that because if there had been it would be shouted at the top of that idiots lungs. However, the state had no constitutional right to take over the operation of that specialized government without good reasons and that is why the Disney Co. has to fight it every inch of the way. It's not that they don't have the right to eliminate it, but to do it because someone had used their free speech rights is something that everyone should be shocked about because if they feel they can do that to a entity the size of Disney then they wouldn't even break a sweat doing it to every individual within that governments sphere.

I'm done with this back and forth unless it is not just nitpicking or misinterpretation of statements.

I'm very aware of the events surrounding the creation of the District. I said it was done at the request of the company, AS I mentioned in one of my posts. However, you keep equating a legal arm of government with a private corporation. As others have pointed out.

And, unlike you, I predate both WDW and RCID in Florida. The Walt Disney Corporation just happened to be my senior thesis in business school.

If you bothered to read any of the previous 1000 pages and my posts, you'd find I have been an opponent of the actions of the governor. There was an illuminating discussion about both the state and federal constitutions and case law surrounding the rights TWDC outlined in their filing with the federal district court. Both the state and federal constitutions mirror each other in their free speech and contract clauses. Perhaps you show read those posts.

 

[LAKid53]

The reason people are nitpicking is because people defending the state's actions use such misinformation to make the case that there was something intrinsically wrong with the RCID as it was founded.

Repeating their misinformation is a sore topic amongst those, like you, are against the state's actions.

That's why we nitpick on the facts, they matter greatly in this discourse.

As they matter in a court of law.

 

[fgmnt]

The reason people are nitpicking is because people defending the state's actions use such misinformation to make the case that there was something intrinsically wrong with the RCID as it was founded.

Repeating their misinformation is a sore topic amongst those, like you, are against the state's actions.

That's why we nitpick on the facts, they matter greatly in this discourse.

There were multiple legal implications to RCID and TWDC remaining separate legal entities and this relationship was tested constantly by lawyers and public accountants as part of state and federal laws. The relationship coded into law by an earlier and less hostile state government and Walt Disney Productions might have been structured to run right up to the line, but it never crossed it. Lots of people got paid a lot of money over many years to make sure of it.

 

[mmascari]

I don't understand why you think that I think the Disney pays or ever has paid them directly, I know how it works, it seems to me that you are the one that isn't thinking in the reality of how that whole system works and works well.

Go back and read your first post in this chain. This one: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...urism-oversight-district.976968/post-10704793

You commented in response to questions about if Disney could directly give the RCID employees the passes that RCID is going to stop providing for RCID employees. Those posts you replied to pointed out that Disney could not do that, as that would be a gift from Disney directly to those government employees.

Your reply was that it is not a gift when an employer gives a benefit to an employee. Then, in subsequent posts included examples of other companies giving their employees company benefits. Including one of different Disney departments getting the same benefit. All of those examples equate RCID employees the same as other Disney employees.

All of the responses have been to state the fact that RCID employees are not Disney employees. That pretending they are, treating them as if they are, using a wink wink nudge nudge to pretend they are the same is completely false.

The legal structures and facts of how RCID exists isn't something that can be just glossed over and pretend it's all just Disney with different names. The construction and governance of how RCID exists is fundamental to how it works. The details matter and create very clear definitions and boundaries between Disney and RCID.

While you keep saying you understand this distinction, you also keep saying wink wink nudge nudge they're really the same and it's all just Disney.

That incorrect blurring is a misdirection talking point that is encouraged by the governor. That somehow RCID was the same as Disney, but CFTOD is independent from Disney. When in fact, RCID and CFTOD are the exact same legal entities. Which is part of what makes CFTOD suing about an action RCID took kind of ridiculous, they're mad about themselves.

The only change between RCID and CFTOD was how the governing board is determined, and the accountability that is based on how they are determined. The RCID board was elected by the land owners within the district, and hence accountable to the those land owners or they would be replaced in an election. The CFTOD board is selected by the governor, and hence only accountable to the governor and can ignore any concerns of those within the district. The new board has been taking actions based on this difference in accountability.

 

[flynnibus]

Last pages…

 

[tissandtully]

Wait, I'm confused. Are you of the opinion that the people running the company are neck deep into this lawsuit spending all their waking hours on it and ignoring the rest of the company?

The dude clearly knows what he's talking about, he is MISTER Dis after all

 

[Goofyernmost]

Go back and read your first post in this chain. This one: https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...urism-oversight-district.976968/post-10704793

You commented in response to questions about if Disney could directly give the RCID employees the passes that RCID is going to stop providing for RCID employees. Those posts you replied to pointed out that Disney could not do that, as that would be a gift from Disney directly to those government employees.

Your reply was that it is not a gift when an employer gives a benefit to an employee. Then, in subsequent posts included examples of other companies giving their employees company benefits. Including one of different Disney departments getting the same benefit. All of those examples equate RCID employees the same as other Disney employees.

All of the responses have been to state the fact that RCID employees are not Disney employees. That pretending they are, treating them as if they are, using a wink wink nudge nudge to pretend they are the same is completely false.

The legal structures and facts of how RCID exists isn't something that can be just glossed over and pretend it's all just Disney with different names. The construction and governance of how RCID exists is fundamental to how it works. The details matter and create very clear definitions and boundaries between Disney and RCID.

While you keep saying you understand this distinction, you also keep saying wink wink nudge nudge they're really the same and it's all just Disney.

That incorrect blurring is a misdirection talking point that is encouraged by the governor. That somehow RCID was the same as Disney, but CFTOD is independent from Disney. When in fact, RCID and CFTOD are the exact same legal entities. Which is part of what makes CFTOD suing about an action RCID took kind of ridiculous, they're mad about themselves.

The only change between RCID and CFTOD was how the governing board is determined, and the accountability that is based on how they are determined. The RCID board was elected by the land owners within the district, and hence accountable to the those land owners or they would be replaced in an election. The CFTOD board is selected by the governor, and hence only accountable to the governor and can ignore any concerns of those within the district. The new board has been taking actions based on this difference in accountability.

Yea, I suppose so all the people that are innocent in the RCID debacle have to suffer because on paper they do not work for Disney even though in reality they do. Just not directly. I'm done with the conversation because it is to far off the path of the reality of the situation that it is never going to be agreed upon. So moving right along.

 

[Rich Brownn]

From what my Mom would tell me regarding her co-workers, the majority of CMs do not regularly use their admission benefits. The ones that do are predominantly people who came through the college program, or people who were Disney fans before they started working at Disney. Some of these people would be able to justify the purchase of an AP, especially if their spouse had a good salary, but most probably wouldn't. For those that don't know, for regular WDW CMs your benefit for signing in other people is only good for 16 days a year. It's if you have a certain job or 15 years of service you are upgraded to the Silver pass which is unlimited, subject to blockout dates. When my Mom was blue not silver, they paid for my Dad to have an AP, but that was a unicorn among her co-workers.

Of the CMs who don't regularly use them, a large chunk of them never go at all (see the CFTOD mentioning 50%, never using them) and a smaller chunk who go when the grandkids, nieces and nephews, etc. are visiting, and they are very excited that they are able to do this for them. There is also a group in which the employee has kids and does use them, but I would guess this is a smaller group than existed in the 70s, 80s, 90s. Disney has replaced these types of people with people earlier in their careers (no kids), older people who are doing Disney as a second career (kids have grown up), International workers (whose kids may be on an island or different continent) or outsourced that job. In the higher salary jobs, maybe some would pay on their own, but I would guess the majority would not buy admissions. Maybe for somebody's birthday.

You know that Defunctland video about Fastpass+ usage. I'd guess it would mirror Main Entrance Pass usage fairly well too. A small group that is hitting that pass for all it's worth, a middle group that uses what Disney expects (maybe a few days in a row when family visits, and a few single days for things like Epcot event or new ride, for a total like 5-7 days), but the largest group doesn't use it at all. The largest group willing to purchase for fun, are in the smallest group overall, so wouldn't tip the scale.

So that's a long way of saying: No. Most CMs would not pay for fun.

But if you want to see some impressive math... I used APs to make the math smaller. Another way you could look at is, using the blue pass 16 separate 1-day park hoppers. A spouse could bring in 3 guests, and the employee could self-admit for a total of 5 people. 5 people x 16 x $184-$247 = $14,720-$19,720. Lesson: If you are ever fortunate to have access to a Main Entrance Pass, USE IT!

It's a little harder to use with blackout days, reservations, limited availability (I think it's 4 per qtr). When I worked there everyone used them - but that was because you could get 4 people in anytime, except 7/4 and Christmas week. I technically could have used it every day.

 

[Rich Brownn]

Taken advantage of exactly WHAT situation? If the District didn't exist, Orange and Osceola Counties would be required to provide all the services the District currently does. And all the infrastructure necessary to build the parks...roads, water, waste, sewage, etc. And guess who pays for that? Every single homeowner in the two counties. Disney would have come out ahead, financially, if the District had been abolished because by statute the counties must assume the obligations.

If the District had never existed we'd be visiting Walt Disney World.... in St. Louis

 

[mmascari]

Yea, I suppose so all the people that are innocent in the RCID debacle have to suffer because on paper they do not work for Disney

On paper and in actual fact they do not work for Disney. RCID employees are no more employees of Disney than our mayor is my employee.

even though in reality they do. Just not directly. I'm done with the conversation because it is to far off the path of the reality of the situation that it is never going to be agreed upon. So moving right along.

I suppose if you are going to be all truthiness or alternative fact about it. Then, moving along is best.

The facts matter to the discussion in this thread. The nuances and actual facts are critical to understanding the situation vs the spin.

 

[tissandtully]

I've never seen so many arguments of people who agree with each other on a forum before

 

[Chi84]

I've never seen so many arguments of people who agree with each other on a forum before

I think it’s based on imprecise communication. When lawsuits get involved - as they are here - the need for precise language and terminology is more important than in normal everyday conversations.

 

[LAKid53]

If the District had never existed we'd be visiting Walt Disney World.... in St. Louis

Because the weather in Missouri is so much better than Florida....

Missouri sits in "tornado alley". Plus, there's winter. Would you rather build a park in a city where the average winter temperatures range from 28°F to 45°F? Or a region where winter temps are in the 70s? There's a reason people come to Florida from the North and Midwest in the winter.....

 

[LAKid53]

I think it’s based on imprecise communication. When lawsuits get involved - as they are here - the need for precise language and terminology is more important than in normal everyday conversations.

 

[LAKid53]

Well, we never saw that coming did we lol

And I bet no fine will be levied.

 

[castlecake2.0]

A debate broke out at work last night over who “the taxpayers” in the district are, showing that these press releases are in fact confusing the public.

 

[LAKid53]

A debate broke out at work last night over who “the taxpayers” in the district are, showing that these press releases are in fact confusing the public.

I believe that's the plan....

 

[castlecake2.0]

I believe that's the plan....

Totally is, and it’s working. I tried to explain that WE are not paying taxes to the district, the BUSINESSES are, but nope this coworker was convinced somehow she was getting screwed out of tax dollars

 

[LAKid53]

Totally is, and it’s working. I tried to explain that WE are not paying taxes to the district, the BUSINESSES are, but nope this coworker was convinced somehow she was getting screwed out of tax dollars

Does she understand the concept of PROPERTY taxes? That only the property owners in RCID are paying those taxes? That non-property owning businesses on Disney property have a surcharge built into their rent for property taxes paid by DISNEY, as do most renters?

If she lives in Orange County, tell her to check the notice we just got from the County re: up coming tax bill. She won't see anything that says "Disney" on the various taxes. Mine doesn't.