News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Figgy1]

Sorry I have to say this....but everybody arguing back and forth on this Disney/DeSantis/Florida/RCID/Woke thing are not being honest about any of it.

Everybody has chosen their for/against sides and no what matter information comes to light on either side....both scream at each other and declare "its all a lie". The tribalism...the "defend your flag at ANY cost" mentality is crazy.

Nobody wants to look at BOTH sides objectively. Instead, it's all about defend & attack for your "cause".

What's right or wrong?...really has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING in this war....and that is disapointing.

If the name "Disney" was replaced with "Exxon" or "Haliburton" or "My Pillow" companies...and all else being equal? I suspect BOTH sides would completely FLIP 180 degrees around...overnight... and continue fighting each other like how they flip teams and sides on football field in a game every quarter.

This isn't about tribalism, it's about constitutional and contractual issues. There are no sides as far as the first goes because that deals with the first which is the first for a reason. You, me and everybody has a right to boycott any company we wish to and the right to spend our money anywhere we want to! The government has no right abridge speech. This isn't only a fight about RC but a fight about a government entity(ies) not only punishing a company due to one statement and then treating both sides of the aisle equally but also the same bodies trying to control future speech and content

 

[tissandtully]

This isn't about tribalism, it's about constitutional and contractual issues. There are no sides as far as the first goes because that deals with the first which is the first for a reason. You, me and everybody has a right to boycott any company we wish to and the right to spend our money anywhere we want to! The government has no right abridge speech. This isn't only a fight about RC but a fight about a government entity(ies) not only punishing a company due to one statement and then treating both sides of the aisle equally but also the same bodies trying to control future speech and content

Also no one has offered any sort of situation where this has been done by “someone from the other side” and anyone has been OK with it.

 

[Figgy1]

Also no one has offered any sort of situation where this has been done by “someone from the other side” and anyone has been OK with it.

Not only that those from here who were able to go to a coftd meeting came from both sides of the aisle to speak out against what's happening

 

[mikejs78]

Sorry I have to say this....but everybody arguing back and forth on this Disney/DeSantis/Florida/RCID/Woke thing are not being honest about any of it.

Everybody has chosen their for/against sides and no what matter information comes to light on either side....both scream at each other and declare "its all a lie". The tribalism...the "defend your flag at ANY cost" mentality is crazy.

Nobody wants to look at BOTH sides objectively. Instead, it's all about defend & attack for your "cause".

What's right or wrong?...really has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING in this war....and that is disapointing.

If the name "Disney" was replaced with "Exxon" or "Haliburton" or "My Pillow" companies...and all else being equal? I suspect BOTH sides would completely FLIP 180 degrees around...overnight... and continue fighting each other like how they flip teams and sides on football field in a game every quarter.

There have been numerous posters on this thread who considered themselves DeSantis supporters, or at least used to, until this. The thing is, most people don't like the idea of government retaliation against speech. It may.br a Republican today using government to silence speech he doesn't like. Tomorrow it could be a Democratic governor suppressing speech of a company known for its Republican leanings. Speech is speech, and government action against political speech is never right.

It's also telling that, outside Florida, many Republicans leaders are criticizing DeSantis in this matter.

 

[Cliff]

There have been numerous posters on this thread who considered themselves DeSantis supporters, or at least used to, until this. The thing is, most people don't like the idea of government retaliation against speech. It may.br a Republican today using government to silence speech he doesn't like. Tomorrow it could be a Democratic governor suppressing speech of a company known for its Republican leanings. Speech is speech, and government action against political speech is never right.

It's also telling that, outside Florida, many Republicans leaders are criticizing DeSantis in this matter.

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control. If you had asked me a decade or two ago, I would have agreed back then too. In my opinion, special taxing districts shoud be reserved for places like The Viliges...a place where thousands of people actually live in a real community. Not what Disney had in RCID. If Disney was not going to build a REAL experimental community of people and citizens? Then it sould have been disolved in the 1970's



So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

 

[Chi84]

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control. If you had asked me a decade or two ago, I would have agreed back then too. In my opinion, special taxing districts shoud be reserved for places like The Viliges...a place where thousands of people actually live in a real community. Not what Disney had in RCID. If Disney was not going to build a REAL experimental community of people and citizens? Then it sould have been disolved in the 1970's



So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

DeSantis doesn’t want RCID dissolved. And he didn’t dissolve it. What didn’t you like about RCID?

 

[Figgy1]

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control. If you had asked me a decade or two ago, I would have agreed back then too. In my opinion, special taxing districts shoud be reserved for places like The Viliges...a place where thousands of people actually live in a real community. Not what Disney had in RCID. If Disney was not going to build a REAL experimental community of people and citizens? Then it sould have been disolved in the 1970's

I believe that Florida would have been fine to desolve RCID for THAT reason....and that reason only.

So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

You're happy all local control has been taken away? You're happy the largest landowner has no input and is actively being punished?

 

[GoofGoof]

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control. If you had asked me a decade or two ago, I would have agreed back then too. In my opinion, special taxing districts shoud be reserved for places like The Viliges...a place where thousands of people actually live in a real community. Not what Disney had in RCID. If Disney was not going to build a REAL experimental community of people and citizens? Then it sould have been disolved in the 1970's

I believe that Florida would have been fine to desolve RCID for THAT reason....and that reason only.

So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

It wasn’t just “framed“ that way, it was the only reason he did it. DeSantis was not changing RCID because thousands of people don’t live there and it was flawed from the start. If that was the case he would have also altered every other special district in the state that wasn’t directly related to a housing development and there are many. Last I checked nobody lives at the Daytona Speedway either. The FL constitution specifies what special districts can and cannot do and there’s nothing specifying they are only for residential development.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney's financial health has nothing to do with the RCID, CFTOD dispute. Disney is not in financial difficulty no matter what some here or on stupid YouTube videos say. Plus some of those people have no idea what they are talking about, or why else would they be working in a 2nd or 3rd world country?

They are entering into a down period and that’s all Wall Street cares about. It doesn’t matter what the truth is…it only matters what people believe

17 billion is status quo for a decade at current WDW, and it will probably be pretty lean as all departments tend to not do as well as the last couple decades.

Netflix ditched Marvel for a reason with multiple series and focused on a fewer in house creations that were much less budget so better ROI that covers more production when they get hits.

Disney did not listen and oversaturated three to four big budget series for Star Wars and Marvel.
It is going to take awhile and be lean before it is likely to get better for them, and the way writers are being treated are not going to get them much rushed projects going to diversify.

They will streamline and Disney will just be the obvious hits which will create the cycle.

The hubris.

That was a ploy figure…and it doesn’t appear to have worked at all

Even if Disney were cash strapped, who would be positioned to buy them? I don’t think anyone expects them to go bankrupt.

Larger companies that feel the need to bring in a lot of valuable content. I can think of 3 off the top

Agreed on the status quo part, but that still isn’t nothing. In the last decade at WDW we got (in no particular order)

1. Fantasyland Expansion (double dumbo, Mine Train, LM ride, etc)
2. Tron Coaster
3. Pandora (FoP, boat ride)
4. Galaxy’s Edge (RoTR, Smuggler’s run)
5. Toy Story Land (Slinky Dog, Alien Spinner, doubled TSMM)
6. Great Mickey Ride
7. Rat Ride
8. Guardians of the Universe of Energy
9. Frozen in Norway (I know…kinda lame)
10. Disney Springs expansion
11. Skyliner
12. Multiple DVC resorts and one failed Star Wars hotel

So while it wasn’t the Disney decade for sure the $15B spent over the last decade got us some interesting new stuff. This isn’t intended to be some debate about how that isn’t enough and which rides and lands were planned to be more then scaled down or replacements of existing rides. My only point is $17B will likely get us upkeep of existing stuff, for sure some DVC resorts, maybe a few more actual hotel rooms and then some “stuff” for the parks as well. That parks stuff isn’t going to be. 5th gate but isn‘t nothing either.

Nah…it’s a lot closer to nothing than you think. They didn’t say “$17 bil on rides and character buffets”. A lot of place to shell game account “projected costs” away in the swamp.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control. If you had asked me a decade or two ago, I would have agreed back then too. In my opinion, special taxing districts shoud be reserved for places like The Viliges...a place where thousands of people actually live in a real community. Not what Disney had in RCID. If Disney was not going to build a REAL experimental community of people and citizens? Then it sould have been disolved in the 1970's

I believe that Florida would have been fine to desolve RCID for THAT reason....and that reason only.

So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

If it were being dissolved, there wouldn’t be many people complaining.

It’s unarguable that the solution DeSantis came up with to save face, after realizing rushing to dissolve the district without a clue how to do it wasn’t going to work, is extreme.

 

[MandaM]

I believe that Florida would have been fine to desolve RCID for THAT reason....and that reason only. I do NOT believe that DeSantis should have ever spoken the word "Woke" one time in this. That was a MASSIVE mistake on his part. The "Woke" problem that Disney has should mean nothing to the RCID problem. Disney's Woke poltics is a conversation for it's CUSTOMERS...not a question for the state.

So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

This is a perfect example of the "defend your flag at any costs" mentality you talked about. Dismissing DeSantis' actions as just a problem of framing or using the wrong word completely ignores and excuses the fact that he's a governor punishing a corporation - doing everything he can to harm them, slandering them, accusing them of vile crimes - solely for criticizing him. That can't be normalized or trivialized as mere word choice.

What's right or wrong?...really has NOTHING to do with ANYTHING in this war....and that is disapointing.

What's right or wrong has EVERYTHING to do with this war. Wrong is the DeSantis punishing and suppressing free speech, plus the lies and defamation that go along with it. But what has Disney done that's wrong? How can this be a both sides issue, when only one side is in the wrong?

 

[GoofGoof]

Nah…it’s a lot closer to nothing than you think. They didn’t say “$17 bil on rides and character buffets”. A lot of place to shell game account “projected costs” away in the swamp.

That was the list of what $14B at WDW got us over the last decade (10.5 years ). Adjusted for inflation thats about the same as $17B now. It wasn’t all rides and character buffets the last decade either. It was what it was.

 

[RamblinWreck]

For anyone who may be inclined to think that DeSantis is somehow doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.

Ask yourself why he didn’t set in motion a 10 year plan to actually dissolve the district.

The one and only possible answer for what he did instead is blindingly obvious, but just see if you can admit it to yourself.


Do you really think the “right” and best possible solution was to make himself the leader of the district, and then assign a bunch of unqualified puppets to the role?

And then, you know, continue to outwardly brag about how he was going to use this power to punish the company and try to influence their business decisions?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That was the list of what $14B at WDW got us over the last decade (10.5 years ). Adjusted for inflation thats about the same as $17B now. It wasn’t all rides and character buffets the last decade either. It was what it was.

You’re missing the point..

That was just for PR, they’re not bound to it…and they appear to have ZERO intention of doing anything. When was the last time NOTHING of substance in the parks was being built? Been a long time, sailor…

But here’s the way it gets done: all the money men who threatened Iger for a dividend months ago…should go on squawk box and call for his firing.

He’ll jump and look for headlines then. GREENLIGHT!!

But is it in their interests to have more money spent in parks? Probably not.

 

[GoofGoof]

You’re missing the point..

That was just for PR, they’re not bound to it…and they appear to have ZERO intention of doing anything. When was the last time NOTHING of substance in the parks was being built? Been a long time, sailor…

But here’s the way it gets done: all the money men who threatened Iger for a dividend months ago…should go on squawk box and call for his firing.

He’ll jump and look for headlines then. GREENLIGHT!!

But is it in their interests to have more money spent in parks? Probably not.

You are free to believe what you want. I see no reason to believe they will add nothing new in 10 years but….sure it could happen. Either way it’s moving off topic to argue about it here anyway.

 

[mkt]

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control.

So you'd be ok with local taxpayers paying for public services on Disney's property?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You are free to believe what you want. I see no reason to believe they will add nothing new in 10 years but….sure it could happen. Either way it’s moving off topic to argue about it here anyway.

They’re five years away from opening anything of substance if they starting digging at midnight tonight.

See that’s the kicker with iger’s “blue ocean” park strategy. They have believed they must do NOTHING…even though they got caught flat footed on two huge occasions…

So will they build something? Of course.
But that wasn’t your stance…you took that PR stunt $17 bil and made up a fake invoice for the future with it…

I’ll edit my self: they have no intention of doing anything RIGHT NOW.

Tssk tsk

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I personally am in favor of RCID being disolved and removed from Disney's control. If you had asked me a decade or two ago, I would have agreed back then too. In my opinion, special taxing districts shoud be reserved for places like The Viliges...a place where thousands of people actually live in a real community. Not what Disney had in RCID. If Disney was not going to build a REAL experimental community of people and citizens? Then it sould have been disolved in the 1970's



So...Im happy that RCID has been changed but very unhappy with how DeSantis framed it.

You do understand they insisted on reedy cause they knew the government in the area couldn’t do it?

They couldn’t if they had to start today. It was and still is a mammoth operation to build and maintain.

You know at one time the largest single source funded private construction project in history was built in wdw?

That was world history…by the way.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

The problem is that unless something changes about Disneys construction speed, even if they broke ground tonight, nothing of major substance would open for another 3-5 years.

They can barley do a retheme in less than two years.

No one is saying that they’re not going to build anything new, or that they won’t even build the “Blue Sky” plans.

I am not in the camp that EU is going to steal enough guests to make a huge dent, Disney needs to have something built, and now. I can’t believe they didn’t learn from WWoHP and the knee-jerk, half a**ed New Fantasyland

 

[GoofGoof]

The problem is that unless something changes about Disneys construction speed, even if they broke ground tonight, nothing of major substance would open for another 3-5 years.

They can barley do a retheme in less than two years.

No one is saying that they’re not going to build anything new, or that they won’t even build the “Blue Sky” plans.

I am not in the camp that EU is going to steal enough guests to make a huge dent, Disney needs to have something built, and now. I can’t believe they didn’t learn from WWoHP and the knee-jerk, half a**ed New Fantasyland

Again, kinda off topic, but the $17B was forecasted capital spend over a decade, so cash out the door for capitalized projects at WDW. A large chunk of that is just upkeep on existing attractions which would be difficult to pull back. If a new project started tomorrow and takes 5 years to open they are still spending money over those 5 years, maybe not evenly 1/5 each year but it’s not like the cash out the door all happens when the attraction opens. Even if Disney is slow to build and people think they spend way more than they should for attractions and lands it doesn’t change the financial impact of not spending that money. It’s construction jobs and eventually new permanent jobs, etc. This isn’t about park fan discussions on whether or not what they spend money on is worth it or if it’s enough to compete with Universal. If they spend a few hundred million on a new DVC resort it’s still a few hundred million into the local economy even if park fans think it’s a waste of money or poorly themed. Same goes for expanding Disney Springs, building a skyliner or re-theming a boat ride.