News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

Disney should honor the agreement. It’s a contract. They were willing to roll over and didn’t act. That’s on them and they should not get to renege well after the fact.

 

[GoofGoof]

For me that would depend on whether or not the pay raises were egregious. I have zero insight as to whether or not this is a reasonable contract so I can only speculate that it might be done in a way to punish Disney.

Which is another example of how this is so messy and wrong. Disney pays more in taxes under the original agreement in order to retain more control.

Now, we have Disney being forced to pay on a contract that might be unreasonable. If the district was dissolved completely and the tax burden had been returned to the state, this wouldn't be an issue. Florida wants to have their cake and eat it too.

It’s a valid point. I think that Disney should offer them a fair contract and if it’s close enough to this they should keep it in place. If it is egregious then the union must know that already so hopefully its members should be well aware that it will be gone if the court case goes bad. I wouldn’t want to see first responders buying a house or something based on their new salary and then having it ripped away if the case goes against the district, but they should know better than anyone what’s happening here so they know the risk.

 

[scottieRoss]

The firefighter union and RCID had been in contract negotiations for some time. DeSantis has placed tremendous emphasis on supporting first responders during his time in office, so it's unsurprising that a DeSantis-appointed board is also a pro-first responder board. When they took over, they were much easier to negotiate with than the former RCID board, and if I'm not mistaken, came to an agreement after only two weeks of negotiations.

In short, I don't think this was a way to "punish" Disney as much as it was merely a result of a board with a different mentality.

I am in local government here in Texas. when the budget comes around each year there are two mentalities displayed on the council/commission.
1. Our constituents are paying for it, so spend what we want as long as we can get the taxes to cover it.
2. Our constituents are paying for it, so we need to be responsible in what we spend to support our constituents and keep their tax bills as low as is reasonably possible.
CFTOD is taking action number 1 and RCID took action number 2.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney should honor the agreement. It’s a contract. They were willing to roll over and didn’t act. That’s on them and they should not get to renege well after the fact.

Unless i’m mistaken…”Disney” has no say/control over a defunct reedy creek’s contracts?

 

[GoofGoof]

I am in local government here in Texas. when the budget comes around each year there are two mentalities displayed on the council/commission.
1. Our constituents are paying for it, so spend what we want as long as we can get the taxes to cover it.
2. Our constituents are paying for it, so we need to be responsible in what we spend to support our constituents and keep their tax bills as low as is reasonably possible.
CFTOD is taking action number 1 and RCID took action number 2.

The big difference here is if your council/commission goes with #1 and the taxpayers are unhappy enough they get voted out next election. This board answers to nobody except for the Governor so they have zero reason to consider #2.

 

[MandaM]

The firefighter union and RCID had been in contract negotiations for some time. DeSantis has placed tremendous emphasis on supporting first responders during his time in office, so it's unsurprising that a DeSantis-appointed board is also a pro-first responder board. When they took over, they were much easier to negotiate with than the former RCID board, and if I'm not mistaken, came to an agreement after only two weeks of negotiations.

In short, I don't think this was a way to "punish" Disney as much as it was merely a result of a board with a different mentality.

I have a different mentality when I'm spending someone else's money, too.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am in local government here in Texas. when the budget comes around each year there are two mentalities displayed on the council/commission.
1. Our constituents are paying for it, so spend what we want as long as we can get the taxes to cover it.
2. Our constituents are paying for it, so we need to be responsible in what we spend to support our constituents and keep their tax bills as low as is reasonably possible.
CFTOD is taking action number 1 and RCID took action number 2.

That’s what you think is going on in 32837?

 

[Brian]

The new union contract raises starting pay for firefighters from $55,000 to $65,000 and paramedics from $40,000 to $54,000. Considering that they had been struggling to fill vacancies, rampant cost of living increases in the area (in part due to inflation, and in part due to housing market pressures), and the breadth of duties required of CFTOD firefighters, I don't think those pay rates are unreasonable. After all, these people are expected to learn how to evacuate guests from anything from the Skyliner to Cosmic Rewind; something that cannot be said about your average firefighter.

I suspect that these salaries will remain competitive at minimum through the end of the contract.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

The new union contract raises starting pay for firefighters from $55,000 to $65,000 and paramedics from $40,000 to $54,000. Considering that they had been struggling to fill vacancies, rampant cost of living increases in the area (in part due to inflation, and in part due to housing market pressures), and the breadth of duties required of CFTOD firefighters, I don't think those pay rates are unreasonable. After all, these people are expected to learn how to evacuate guests from anything from the Skyliner to Cosmic Rewind; something that cannot be said about your average firefighter.

I suspect that these salaries will remain competitive at minimum through the end of the contract.

The numbers don't seem unreasonable at a glance, but I find it interesting that the "pull yourselves up by your bootstraps" side is suddenly willing give people some pretty significant raises.

I work in government and a 3% raise would typically be considered out of the ordinary.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Again, kinda off topic, but the $17B was forecasted capital spend over a decade, so cash out the door for capitalized projects at WDW. A large chunk of that is just upkeep on existing attractions which would be difficult to pull back. If a new project started tomorrow and takes 5 years to open they are still spending money over those 5 years, maybe not evenly 1/5 each year but it’s not like the cash out the door all happens when the attraction opens. Even if Disney is slow to build and people think they spend way more than they should for attractions and lands it doesn’t change the financial impact of not spending that money. It’s construction jobs and eventually new permanent jobs, etc. This isn’t about park fan discussions on whether or not what they spend money on is worth it or if it’s enough to compete with Universal. If they spend a few hundred million on a new DVC resort it’s still a few hundred million into the local economy even if park fans think it’s a waste of money or poorly themed. Same goes for expanding Disney Springs, building a skyliner or re-theming a boat ride.

I think I totally agree with you. Expenditures does impact the local economy…no matter what. That’s good for Orlando.

But immediately people started talking about “rides” and that’s a mental leap of convenience. Nobody said “rides”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The new union contract raises starting pay for firefighters from $55,000 to $65,000 and paramedics from $40,000 to $54,000. Considering that they had been struggling to fill vacancies, rampant cost of living increases in the area (in part due to inflation, and in part due to housing market pressures), and the breadth of duties required of CFTOD firefighters, I don't think those pay rates are unreasonable. After all, these people are expected to learn how to evacuate guests from anything from the Skyliner to Cosmic Rewind; something that cannot be said about your average firefighter.

I suspect that these salaries will remain competitive at minimum through the end of the contract.

I agree the rates are reasonable…but are we still maintaining that RCIDFD is “more” difficult than high rises and things not built by Disney prior to 1971??

…that’s a hard case to sell


Still…pay em. But they shouldn’t have made statements about the politics of it

 

[networkpro]

You do realize you’re confusing this:
View attachment 717860

With this:

View attachment 717865

Not quite. I'm referring to actually having sufficient operational vehicles as well as competitive wages and staffing for these public servants.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Not quite. I'm referring to actually having sufficient operational vehicles as well as competitive wages and staffing for these public servants.

And I’m totally down with that…

 

[GoofGoof]

I think I totally agree with you. Expenditures does impact the local economy…no matter what. That’s good for Orlando.

But immediately people started talking about “rides” and that’s a mental leap of convenience. Nobody said “rides”

Yes and that was my point that originally started this tangent. Saying they are projecting to spend $17B over the next decade is not just PR spin or some unrealistic number. It’s around run rate for the past and a large piece of it will be upkeep of existing attractions. Another chunk will be hotel rooms which will primarily be DVC. They will also do re-themes of rides and change up shows. whats left will go to new attractions. Using history as a guide the “new attractions“ won’t be nothing but they will likely be disappointing to a lot of park fans who would hope for more.

Getting back to the topic at hand, this dispute with DeSantis over RCID could in theory result in a pull back on that spending. It’s probably PR spin to say the whole $17B is at risk since some of that will be spent for stuff needed to keep the parks open but if this situation got a lot worse Disney could decide to wait it out and not spend the portion of that money allocated to new attractions. They could also defer non-safety upkeep which would at best lead to bad show or at worst they could just close attractions rather than repair them.

 

[Goofyernmost]

DeSantis doesn’t want RCID dissolved. And he didn’t dissolve it. What didn’t you like about RCID?

Simple they still have drunk the Kool Aid that Disney is paying less in taxes than everyone else. After this many pages one would think that fallacy would be dispelled by now.

 

[GoofGoof]

The new union contract raises starting pay for firefighters from $55,000 to $65,000 and paramedics from $40,000 to $54,000. Considering that they had been struggling to fill vacancies, rampant cost of living increases in the area (in part due to inflation, and in part due to housing market pressures), and the breadth of duties required of CFTOD firefighters, I don't think those pay rates are unreasonable. After all, these people are expected to learn how to evacuate guests from anything from the Skyliner to Cosmic Rewind; something that cannot be said about your average firefighter.

I suspect that these salaries will remain competitive at minimum through the end of the contract.

Those are healthy pay raises but from my understanding the union had been working without a contract for a while so maybe making up for lost time. If Disney wins the lawsuit and gets the old RCID board back and gets pretty much what they want they can afford to give a little on these contracts and suck it up and eat the extra cost.

 

[Lilofan]

Simple they still have drunk the Kool Aid that Disney is paying less in taxes than everyone else. After this many pages one would think that fallacy would be dispelled by now.

Some have improved their lies to some. If you repeat it again and again, some take it as the truth.

 

[Lilofan]

Those are healthy pay raises but from my understanding the union had been working without a contract for a while so maybe making up for lost time. If Disney wins the lawsuit and gets the old RCID board back and gets pretty much what they want they can afford to give a little on these contracts and suck it up and eat the extra cost.

I'm just curious do the firefighters and paramedics keep their coveted perks, free entry for themselves , family and friends to the theme parks?

 

[GoofGoof]

I'm just curious do the firefighters and paramedics keep their coveted perks, free entry for themselves , family and friends to the theme parks?

20% of them voted no on the contract so maybe not

I would assume none of that changed. Probably just pay increases and agreement to hire more workers and add more equipment.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Those are healthy pay raises but from my understanding the union had been working without a contract for a while so maybe making up for lost time. If Disney wins the lawsuit and gets the old RCID board back and gets pretty much what they want they can afford to give a little on these contracts and suck it up and eat the extra cost.

They always could afford it…
And that’s the ugly side…crushing wages has always been a primary goal at TDO…

The best story that illustrates is when the restaurant servers were making great money…but the managers weren’t. So instead of paying the 1:10 ratio managers more…they slashed tables for the servers.

Did the same thing with PI bartenders back in the day too.