Recent promos suggest Disney restaurants are in trouble - why?

[jt04]

Yeah but that would lower margin per plate and we cant allow that to happen ever.

This is the problem with financial engineering, Eventually the wheels start falling off and noone understands why

P&Rs begs to differ. Your theory is based on faulty data.

 

[NearTheEars]

That is your opinion.

Yep, a well thought out one. It's much easier to understand someone's opinion when they explain it. Not as easy when it's just a one-liner.

Edit: Sorry for sounding snarky. What I really mean is we'd like to hear a little more about why you think it's terrible.

 

[NearTheEars]

We rarely eat at table serves eat at TS restaurants. I did look through the menus yesterday to calculate the 30% off and it was still a little too expensive for us. Plus we aren't very adventurous eaters.

We often share quick service meals, and grab some snacks around World Showcase. Beyond that we have dinner closer to home or around Orlando after leaving the park. Obviously not everyone is local like us, so that limits them.

If we do go to TS it's usually in the parks and offer some sort of unique atmosphere, like San Angel Inn or Sci-Fi. Yak and Yeti was OK and we did recently go to Whispering Canyon for lunch. Obviously none of those are comparable to the signature restaurants, though.

 

[ChrisM]

Anecdotally, my job is in Disney's coveted six-figure range, and none of my 22 coworkers plan on returning to Disney parks soon. The reasons? (1) Food is too expensive and the dining plan isn't worth its price. (2) The hotels are outrageous and Disney must've lost its mind.

Interestingly, few of them would consider staying off property because they LIKE the Disney bubble.

Disney seems to have forgotten that generally speaking, the more money someone makes, the more well traveled they are, and the more familiar they are with prices and value.

Disney has entered a difficult transition period. They pursued lower income brackets heavily for 15 years and are now trying to pivot their strategy to pursue upper income dollars. But their current product doesn't readily exhibit the quality the upper income brackets expect.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Too late for us, we are not AP holders any longer. Even when we were, we VERY rarely go to TS restaurants (perhaps twice in a 19 day stay), it's just not worth the additional money. CS restaurants all over the parks and resorts are far more convenient and far less pricey as well, especially since the days that CS at WDW offered only burgers, hot dogs, fries, pizza etc. are over already long ago. If e.g. you stay at the Pop you have two quite different (concerning the menus) food courts (AoA over the bridge, a 5 minute walk from Everythings Pop foodcourt) with dozen of different kinds of food available. To eat at a TS restaurant, this has to offer more than only food.

 

[21stamps]

Disney has entered a difficult transition period. They pursued lower income brackets heavily for 15 years and are now trying to pivot their strategy to pursue upper income dollars. But their current product doesn't readily exhibit the quality the upper income brackets expect.

I've thought about this quite a bit. Disney used to be somewhere that not "everyone" could afford to visit.. then they started Value Resorts.. Disney Vacation Accounts.. $200 deposits.. and heavily marketed it as "affordable to all!!"
It's all a ploy because the same people who were able to go after this happened also could have gone before if they would have saved their money on their own, and they could have stayed at a hotel nicer than a Value resort off Disney property, and still visited WDW everyday.. the beauty of human psyche lol.

Now I think they're trying to even it out again.. totally agree with you there.

 

[ford91exploder]

I think its a combo of several things...The mall concept is declining. Everywhere. People are ordering online and not going to the stores...If you see non specific items at Disney, you now think you can price check it online and order it there- and don't have to carry it back in your suitcase. Couple that with the price of meals and the economy. My family is upper middle class and we cannot afford to spend $400 on a meal for 7 people to eat dinner everyday at WDW. Non signature restaurants, no desserts, no appetizers no alcohol... It's simply crazy. And I love Disney as much as all of you, but there comes a point when you ask yourself how much this makes sense....and it's starting to not....

It stopped making sense back in '15 for us. We can afford the price but cannot see the VALUE in a 60 dollar per plate buffet and being 'on vacation' does not make a difference to us.

 

[ford91exploder]

Anecdotally, my job is in Disney's coveted six-figure range, and none of my 22 coworkers plan on returning to Disney parks soon. The reasons? (1) Food is too expensive and the dining plan isn't worth its price. (2) The hotels are outrageous and Disney must've lost its mind.

Interestingly, few of them would consider staying off property because they LIKE the Disney bubble.

Disney seems to have forgotten that generally speaking, the more money someone makes, the more well traveled they are, and the more familiar they are with prices and value.

Same here for me, Disney has indeed forgotten that the Six figure demographi c does indeed does look a price/value closely and tends to bail quickly when value is no longer there

 

[Brad Bishop]

Disney has entered a difficult transition period. They pursued lower income brackets heavily for 15 years and are now trying to pivot their strategy to pursue upper income dollars. But their current product doesn't readily exhibit the quality the upper income brackets expect.

I think that's a big part of it. They're selling 3-star resorts at 6-star resort prices and people are looking at it and thinking, "huh.. This other place (resort, restaurant, whatever) is a lot nicer / really upscale and not as expensive..."

People think that the wealthy just have money to blow. Some do. They didn't get wealthy by making bad deals. The people I've known who were truly wealthy (had money in the bank, not high debt to appear as wealthy) were always pretty frugal. They'd splurge from time to time but money didn't just "drop out of their pockets" without caring. They always weighed the value of the purchase. Higher quality meant a higher price, and they got that. Simply selling the same-old at a higher price, and you lost them.

Conversely, the ones who had high debt were always trying to show how much they could spend so maybe this is Disney's target audience.

 

[disney4life2008]

What's terrible about it? (I'm genuinely curious on your thoughts)

A big outside shopping mall wow

 

[GeneralZod]

You can go out to dinner with five people and only spend 60 dollars including tip? Where? I barely can do that at five guys

You can't. Once again, someone comparing Happy Meals to bone-in-filet.

See, I can use extremes to prove my point too. It sure is fun to bandwagon.

 

[GeneralZod]

A big outside shopping mall wow

That doesn't seem like a very philosophical response.

 

[deeevo]

I just got back from a 5 night stay and while we did hit Kona and Sci Fi and both bill's were close to $100 ea that was all I was going to do. It is getting harder and harder to justify the overpriced TS food most places serve. I hit up Lakeside Village Publix a couple of times for subs (very convenient from Poly) and spent my money at the good old Barefoot bar.

 

[Bocabear]

We enjoy having nice meals...we don't mind spending a little extra for something nicer, and not having kids, we usually preferred the signature TS restaurants as they were a lovely respite from the madding crowds... The, Disney Dining plan started happening... The upscale restaurants were suddenly almost impossible to get into, were overrun with strollers and screaming children, and the quality of the food plummeted. Even eating at the same restaurants year after year, the actual product has spiraled downward, and the restaurants are not the experience they were. They even De-furbed the Flying Fish from a once dramatic and innovative interior to what it is now less interesting than the local Bonefish Grill in my own hometown...and my local Bonefish Grill has better food for less money... I think the Disney Dining Plan has hurt the signature dining restaurants from every angle...If they are having trouble, it is no wonder...

 

[MassScott84]

A big outside shopping mall wow

I'm sure you can do better than that, Doc!

 

[ford91exploder]

I think that's a big part of it. They're selling 3-star resorts at 6-star resort prices and people are looking at it and thinking, "huh.. This other place (resort, restaurant, whatever) is a lot nicer / really upscale and not as expensive..."

People think that the wealthy just have money to blow. Some do. They didn't get wealthy by making bad deals. The people I've known who were truly wealthy (had money in the bank, not high debt to appear as wealthy) were always pretty frugal. They'd splurge from time to time but money didn't just "drop out of their pockets" without caring. They always weighed the value of the purchase. Higher quality meant a higher price, and they got that. Simply selling the same-old at a higher price, and you lost them.

Conversely, the ones who had high debt were always trying to show how much they could spend so maybe this is Disney's target audience.

Yeah most of my truly wealthy friends are more likely to hit Subway for a 5 dollar foot long than the trendy bistro down the street where the same sandwich is 15 bucks

 

[Maccabee18]

In preparation for a trip to the World at the end of the month, I created a list of signature restaurants with the 30% off (I'm a semi-local AP holder) and sent it to my husband to gauge what would interest him the most. Artists Point, Flying Fish, etc. His response? The menus all looked the same and the prices were high, even with the 30%. Morimoto was his top pick. I have a feeling he's not the only casual or first time guest enticed by the new offerings at DS.

I agree, I have eaten at almost every restaurant on property and either the quality has gone down, the menu has been changed to be either exorbitantly expensive, or just atypical menu fare.

Artist point used to be one of my favorite because it had a true Northwest American fare with great steaks and seafood. Now the menu is a little too finite and unappealing. I don't enjoy a bone full of marrow, and I doubt the typical vacationer does either.

Disney needs to make fresh good quality food that appeals to the masses and isn't trying to be 5 star dining. They don't do 5 star very well and then they reduce food quality overall.

 

[Maccabee18]

Too many menus are too similar. The resort restaurants need to do more to sell the food they have and their point of difference.

Too many price increases, if I didn't get the free dining plan for booking in the UK I would have eaten a LOT more off-site.

Competition from Disney Springs, why eat at the boring resort hotels when DS has sooo much choice.

There is a reputation that you need reservations at 180 days to eat on property, most of the time you don't but Disney need to try and educate people away from booking everything.

I agree, but my problem with the dining plan is its on the verge of gluttony in order to be worth the price. I did a price comparison for example on the deluxe and unless you plan to eat an appetizer per person, one of the more expensive meals (which limits choices) and desserts. Its either not cost effective, or Disney makes money off you because you waste the dollars.

Id rather pay and get what I want and spend less than feel forced to gorge myself on food or almost plan my trip just on dining. Its convenient for sure, but I am betting that Disney makes a profit off the dining plan because most people don't spend what they would have if the paid ala carte. Or if you do, you leave 5lbs heavier than you planned too. lol

 

[Maccabee18]

Anecdotally, my job is in Disney's coveted six-figure range, and none of my 22 coworkers plan on returning to Disney parks soon. The reasons? (1) Food is too expensive and the dining plan isn't worth its price. (2) The hotels are outrageous and Disney must've lost its mind.

Interestingly, few of them would consider staying off property because they LIKE the Disney bubble.

Disney seems to have forgotten that generally speaking, the more money someone makes, the more well traveled they are, and the more familiar they are with prices and value.

Exactly, we are also a family in that Disney coveted 6 figure bubble, and if it wasn't for being a DVC member we would never spend that type of money for a Disney vacation. I grew up in Florida and have always been a Disney fan.

The experience you get with Disney is one of the best, but the quality has deteriorated quite drastically. You used to never see the parks filthy, the hotel rooms were exceptional, and the restaurants were high quality.

Now (because people are slobs and disrespectful the parks are more filthy) and its harder for them to keep clean, the rooms are not being cleaned to a high quality standard. Yes they are clean, (but I dare you to walk into a hotel bathroom on Disney property and not see hard water stains on the shower head, or mold somewhere on the tub surround) thats a sign of not a thorough cleaning.

Disney has a hard balance of pricing people out to reduce crowds, but not overpricing it to alienate the people willing to pay for the quality. They are failing at both.

However, if you look at the crowds who go to Universal, the people at Disney are far more respectable. I won't even go to Universal because of the type of crowds that Universal attracts.

 

[Aqueeta]

IMO, Disney brought this on themselves by allowing the annual-passholding locals to overrun the parks to the point that they became so unbearable that the traditional tourist is no longer coming to Disney as often a they once did. It is a well-known fact that the locals don't spend money like the tourist do so the only way to fix this issue is for Disney to do away with the AP and the one-day ticket passes. This will bring the crowds down to tolerable levels and the money spending tourist back to the parks.