• Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.

Raya and the Last Dragon

MisterPenguin

Fully Pfizered!
Premium Member
As were Fantasia, Alice in Wonderland and Sleeping Beauty and those are Disney related

Do any of those have streaming numbers? If they do toot your horn, but until then we should wait before declaring it failed where streaming is the sign if success in the midst of a pandemic.
Streaming figures should be here in a month.
 

LovePop

Active Member
I am glad to hear that Raya isn't doing so well. I don't find it interesting enough to want to watch it, and am glad to hear that I'm in the majority. With Tangled, Frozen, Frozen 2, Princess and the Frog, and Moana, I thought it looked interesting enough to be worth paying to rent it or buy it. Not so much Raya because there's too much martial arts elements inside. I don't like watching martial arts. I'm more into beautiful dresses, stunning hairdos, fancy palaces, well-dressed servants, that sort of thing. The only interesting thing in the movie is the armadillo, but that's not enough to draw me.
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
Sleeping Beauty truly baffles me why it was a flop.

It cost so much money and was hyped for years on end. When it was finally released, people didn't care. The only Disney movie to make money that year was the cheap black and white comedy about a boy who turns into a dog.

The 1972 re-release didn't fare much better. In 1979 Disney tried again, and it did find an audience, but some critics like Gene Siskel said it was no classic and not worth seeing. The film's 1986 re-issue made less than almost all other re-releases of the time, even AristoCats and Song of the South.

But it was the first Disney video to sell over 1 million copies in 1986, and after being out of print for 11 years when Disney's overall popularity soared in the 90s, did even bigger business on video in 1997. By that time, the movie being labeled a "classic" had finally been earned after so many years of nostalgia and continued presence in the parks and in various TV clips, books and other media.

The Disney Princess brand and Maleficent movies have helped to keep it in the spotlight, though I'd argue neither does a good job of actually representing the movie itself.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
I haven't watched it but I am certainly quite interested to see it. If it were free on D+ (like Soul), my family would have watched it over the weekend already. As is, we just feel that spending $30 - which really isn't much - just isn't worth seeing it 3 months early. But we aren't the types who tend to rush out and see movies anyway. I doubt we are alone in that sentiment of just being willing to wait (we did the same for Mulan).

If we were in a mode of going to see movies in the theaters, we probably would go and see it sometime in the few few weeks it was out, but I don't think we quite feel comfortable for that yet. I know it is odd, but I feel like if we are spending money to see it, I'd rather have the experience of a day out and do something different than watching in our home, which will be the same experience in June.

I kind of wonder what Disney's expectations are/were for the film. If it was low, they probably would have just done a stream for free like Soul. They obviously were high enough on it that they wanted to monetize it more than that (plus they probably felt more comfortable with the amount of content now occurring on Disney+). The Soul streaming numbers were impressive and I would imagine it would be the same for Raya if everyone with a subscription could see it for free. But I'm very curious as to were the streaming numbers will fall for Raya as it will seem to be a good guide as to whether this is a formula they will use going forward.
 
Last edited:

NateD1226

Well-Known Member
Since there is such a positive response to the film, I thought I might share that the people behind this movie will be working with Disney and Disney Animation for a long time. They already greenlit another film directed by Carlos López Estrada for a 2023 release date and will feature music from the Lopez couple. He is also directing the live-action Robin Hood, which won't come out for a while, but that is just another thing he is doing for Disney. Don Hall also has another film coming out in 2022. Not much is known about it, but I'm sure it will be another awesome story. Qui Nguyen, one of the writers on Raya, is also working on a future film for Disney Animation. It looks like Disney was greatly impressed with Raya.
 

brb1006

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Oh ye of too much faith:




5 days later

Cue the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme.
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
5 days later

Cue the Curb Your Enthusiasm theme.

It made an anemic 5.5 million in its second weekend and you find that impressive? Why? Because it's number one two weeks in a row? What was the competition, aside from the cat and mouse cartoon that's still beating it worldwide?

We'll see if the streaming numbers add any oomph to the results....
 
Last edited:

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
Black Widow is really going to be THE movie to determine the health of the movie industry. The movie will be released in theaters only (supposedly) and will be the first Marvel film since the pandemic started. It is the most successful franchise in the past 10 years and maybe all time. However, it focuses on a character, while beloved, is removed from many people's minds. This is also a story that doesn't really feed into other films or the next phase. It isn't seen as an essential Marvel film. That could factor into how things go and whether people feel an urgency to see it.

Raya would have been a hit without the pandemic. I would have put it somewhere in the Moana or maybe Coco range of success. Too many factors going against is theatrical success. To me, the biggest factor is that it's also available, albeit through payment, on the second biggest and sharply rising streaming service available.

Tom & Jerry's "success" is an enigma. I don't think it's so much that T&J did better than Raya but that T&J ONLY did about $2 million less in its opening weekend as the highly anticipated Wonder Woman 1984. That movie that would have made well over $100 million in its opening weekend and probably would have at least come close to $400 million domestic. Like T&J, it was available on streaming too yet T&J only made $2 million less. THAT should raise eyebrows. I mean, T&J is a cartoon from the 70's and 80's that people should have forgotten.

The cinematic industry is in SUCH a bad bad spot right now!
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
My guess with Tom and Jerry is that it fed into a desire for families to take kids “out” for something normal after quarantine combined with nostalgia. And perhaps once that itch was scratched, the same motivation wasn’t there for Raya.

also of course HBO Max subscription levels are much lower than Disney+. (Yes Raya isn’t “free” on D+ but people might just be waiting until it rolls out for free if they already subscribe rather than paying $30 or paying at the movies)
 

Fox&Hound

Well-Known Member
It made an anemic 5.5 million in its second weekend and you find that impressive? Why? Because it's number one two weeks in a row? What was the competition, aside from the cat and mouse cartoon that's still beating it worldwide?

We'll see if the streaming numbers add any oomph to the results....
I'm confused. Why does it seem like you are rooting against Disney? Does this movie not making money bring you joy? I love Disney, as a film company and as a theme park giant, and I find myself rooting for them, not gleefully shouting about their failures. I don't follow...
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
My guess with Tom and Jerry is that it fed into a desire for families to take kids “out” for something normal after quarantine combined with nostalgia. And perhaps once that itch was scratched, the same motivation wasn’t there for Raya.

also of course HBO Max subscription levels are much lower than Disney+. (Yes Raya isn’t “free” on D+ but people might just be waiting until it rolls out for free if they already subscribe rather than paying $30 or paying at the movies)
Well, and that's the thing (the bold part). And once the "free" date is announced, people know exactly when they can watch it without premier access. 3 months really isn't that long to wait. People have been unable to go to theaters for a whole year save a few releases here and there. Onward hit theaters just as the pandemic was becoming an issue in the US and a week before it all closed. Mulan went straight to D+. The only 2 other family films have been Croods and T&J. It would have been a VERY different situation for either of those if they were released on Netflix under the same conditions as Raya. That wouldn't have helped Raya but it would have severely hurt Croods and T&J if they were on Netflix. Heck, it would have take a huge bite out of their already repressed box office if they were released simultaneously on Amazon Prime. But HBO Max? Not so much.

So many people have D+ now and they made the automatic release date so soon after release in theaters the many just don't feel the urgency. This wasn't Star Wars or Avengers or even a Toy Story, Incredibles, or Frozen sequel.

We paid the $30 and were quite happy we did. For three people and the likelihood we'll watch it again, it was worth it. Considering how much $$$ was spent in 2019 at the theater, $30 for a movie was nothing.

Not that there would ever be a remotely good time for an event like Covid-19, but from a strictly box office business standpoint, imagine the pandemic colliding with the 2019 box office schedule!!! Just from Disney alone-GEEZ!
 

LovePop

Active Member
I'm confused. Why does it seem like you are rooting against Disney? Does this movie not making money bring you joy? I love Disney, as a film company and as a theme park giant, and I find myself rooting for them, not gleefully shouting about their failures. I don't follow...
I am happy that Raya is doing poorly because I don't like the look of the movie with all the martial arts and the weird looking dragon with hair. This way, Disney might learn from their mistakes and make something better next time. If Raya does well, you can bet Disney will make more martial arts stuff like it that I wouldn't be able to enjoy. Not that I think Disney can't make martial arts movies, but I don't think Disney should mix up their princess movies with martial arts. It's like Stephen King writing romance novels, it's not his brand.

If Disney doesn't learn a thing and just continue to make flops from now on, then that will totally suck for everyone. But I don't believe that'll happen.
 

MisterPenguin

Fully Pfizered!
Premium Member
I am happy that Raya is doing poorly because I don't like the look of the movie with all the martial arts and the weird looking dragon with hair. This way, Disney might learn from their mistakes and make something better next time. If Raya does well, you can bet Disney will make more martial arts stuff like it that I wouldn't be able to enjoy. Not that I think Disney can't make martial arts movies, but I don't think Disney should mix up their princess movies with martial arts. It's like Stephen King writing romance novels, it's not his brand.

If Disney doesn't learn a thing and just continue to make flops from now on, then that will totally suck for everyone. But I don't believe that'll happen.
Raya's up to $52M during a world wide pandemic. That's not flopping.

Raya is at 94% on the Tomato Meter. Critic's and audiences scores are all very good.

No one knows for now how Raya did on D+ premium.

Just because you don't like it -- without ever having seen it -- doesn't mean it isn't well-received or doing poorly.

There are plenty of dainty princess movies. There's no reason why female leaders can't also be warriors (cf. Joan of Arc, Boudicca) such as Merida, Moana, Mulan, and now, Raya.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member
I am happy that Raya is doing poorly because I don't like the look of the movie with all the martial arts and the weird looking dragon with hair. This way, Disney might learn from their mistakes and make something better next time. If Raya does well, you can bet Disney will make more martial arts stuff like it that I wouldn't be able to enjoy. Not that I think Disney can't make martial arts movies, but I don't think Disney should mix up their princess movies with martial arts. It's like Stephen King writing romance novels, it's not his brand.

If Disney doesn't learn a thing and just continue to make flops from now on, then that will totally suck for everyone. But I don't believe that'll happen.
What the........?
 

tcool123

Well-Known Member
weird looking dragon with hair.
Careful your lack of acceptance for non Western culture is showing, and its not a good look on you ;)

Dragons from outside European cultures tend to have fur and scales just like Shisu, the world is big and cultures evolve over time with some parallels. This can be seen in the many variants of what people consider dragons.

gtcGe.jpg
c3270070de02428871e2207e7ef94893.jpg
830807-52753-qknjbxoczi-1488538227.jpg


These images all show Eastern dragons from varying regions, but one similarity they all share is its head being covered in fur or even having a main much like Sisu who was inspired by these dragons. Furthermore Sisu, like the dragons above, has scales on her body after all the fur. They are very smooth and takes the Mushu/Maleficent approach of scales of not really showing their scales but being simplistic designs.

By saying a dragon looks weird with hair you're diminishing the culture and mythology of countless of countries just because she doesn't fit your image of dragons, which lean towards a Western stereotype.

There are plenty of dainty princess movies. There's no reason why female leaders can't also be warriors (cf. Joan of Arc, Boudicca) such as Merida, Moana, Mulan, and now, Raya.
To add to that there plenty of female leaders being warriors from Southeast Asia:

Lady Triệu was the leader of a Vietnamese rebellion against China in a fight for their freedom from the empire.

It is said that she is famous for saying "I'd like to ride storms, kill orcas in the open sea, drive out the aggressors, reconquer the country, undo the ties of serfdom, and never bend my back to be the concubine of whatever man". She is highly celebrated and regarded in Vietnam for what she has done in the country, now acting to many as a historic folk hero on par with people such as George Washington and Simon Bolivar.

isKmxAs0-UpMRc7uTmvS9epW6ph9XCNzWQBuBJem_etbSKcVH2kQgRmFoCHSOn315IyZrTEP--ykPZe9vnF0V6swV3cjiiCjalmQ7DtMCZDe4Z8v5uAcnKw


Walinong Sari was a princess from the modern day region of Malaysia who not only was famous for her beauty, but also known for being an expert in weaponry like Kris, spears and swords, and her mastery of silat, the Malay martial art. She is now considered a folk hero, and honestly I wouldn't be surprised if Disney pulled some inspiration from her traits for Raya who fits that description to a Tm but is just from Kumandra.

forget-disney-princesses-here-are-the-puteri-of-malaysian-folklore-you-should-know-about-part-2-world-of-buzz-13.png


I won't be listing more but there are plenty of examples of women being warriors and even princesses from the region that inspired Raya and the Last Dragon which just goes to show you not every princess has to be in a ballgown singing with her funny sidekicks. If Disney were to do that more often people would likely get bored of having the ballgown princesses everywhere.
 

Jedijax719

Well-Known Member

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Top Bottom