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Rapid Fill Mug Program Fails (at more ways than you might think)
- Thread starter The Visionary Soul
- Start date
JimboJones123
Well-Known Member
[quoteallOVER1957, post: 5911526, member: 62221"]The change is a good one in principal, but when you hear of disabled people being refused a DAS because they have a wheelchair ECV, by some and yes idiot is the right word that have no clue regarding that persons needs, is it their fault the idiots let someone with as you say a hangnail have a GAC, the answer to that is no.[/quote]
Wait, all I cannot get front of the line pass anymore when I use my dead grandma's old wheelchair? Well that sucks... I am not going anymore.
Wait, all I cannot get front of the line pass anymore when I use my dead grandma's old wheelchair? Well that sucks... I am not going anymore.
eliz603
Member
We have chosen not to even do the mug program this time. We are staying at OKW, and we have chosen not to do the dining plan. We also aren't picking up the mugs. Overall, I've just found them to be a hassle. When we stayed at Poly, we were in Tahiti. The last thing we wanted to do after a long day at the park was head over to the GCH for a refill (we were closer to the TTC than GCH, so that's where we picked up the monorail). CR and BLT weren't bad, but at OKW, the two stations may or may not even be close. So I'm just adding extra drinks to our grocery list.
Plus, I just miss the resort specific ones! I have one from CBR that's got to be close to 20 years old, and I have one from WL that's not quite as old. So much more fun than the generic ones I've brought back for the past 7 years.
Plus, I just miss the resort specific ones! I have one from CBR that's got to be close to 20 years old, and I have one from WL that's not quite as old. So much more fun than the generic ones I've brought back for the past 7 years.
deix15x8
Active Member
This is exactly what I was thinking as well. And also why I think the decisions were made by people who have never operated a restaurant.
I ran into similar issues, though, in my case it was salad bar theft...people would not purchase a salad plate but try to use a regular plate at the bar. Honestly, the best way to deal with it was simpler than it sounds. Monitor it.
With respect to how Disney manages it's FOH, having a peak time attendant and otherwise training the floor managers (whom I rarely see in the FOH, which is a VERY bad concept for restaurant management) they could station themselves around or near the bar (which is great, because in the food courts it gives you a wonderful view of what is going on around the restaurant).
The system is known as "Point". Basically, the manager walks the restaurant touching all the important parts (including the restrooms) every half hour or so, but outside of opening / closing and shift change, or the need to deal with something specific, they basically stand in one place for the majority of the shift.
Hard to explain on paper, but very easy to implement.
At best, this was done by someone crunching numbers and honestly trying to solve an issue they convinced themselves existed and needed a nifty "21st century" solution for. At worst, it was someone in middle management with aspirations who crafted this whole thing to garner some attention and (as I'm sure he/she thought) get a big feather in their cap.
The only thing I'd add is that this does have a correlation to same mindset that brought about MM+ (love it, like it or hate it), in that instead of dropping 1 billion (or pick your number) into new rides and attractions, Disney is focusing on control mechanisms.
So, with respect to Rapid Fill (I love the name, since it's not rapid...rapid would be like McDonalds behind the counter machines where you just press a button and it fills the cup perfectly)...but, where I'm going with this is...instead of this money and development focus going to something like this (the Coke Freestyle system):
Instead we get this:
The sad thing is that Royal Caribbean implemented this exact thing. They replaced the old soda package cups that worked just like the classic Disney system with new rfid based cups. The difference is they linked them to Coke Freestyle machines. This means that they now have soda machines all over the ship since the rfid locks them down instead of just in select locations that are monitored and relying on crew to get the drinks everywhere else. This has been a huge success with the guests. Everyone gets tons of different types of sodas, the soda is more readily available, and the rfid check works perfect since it's on the side of the cup and checked by a censor on the back of the cup area of the machine. They don't offer any kind of one time cup but there is no reason it couldn't be done in the same way Disney is doing it. I really don't understand why they would make this investment in new technology using old hardware. Coke Freestyle on it's own is generating additional sales for Royal Caribbean just for the novelty of it.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
I've been away for awhile, so this might have already been answered. A wheelchair bound or ECV bound person DOES NOT NEED a special pass UNLESS they have situation that requires they be brought to the front of the line. That is what they are refusing. If you cannot say why you need to be in the front of the line then you will not be "special" placed there. Just because someone has a wheelchair or ECV does not automatically mean they NEED front of the line. If they can justify that need Disney will accommodate that need, but, using those means of transport does not mean they cannot be in a specially widened queue and go with the flow of the rest of humanity. In fact, that form of equality should be exactly what the system is supposed to do...provide equal access, not special access.
raymusiccity
Well-Known Member
I agree wholeheartedly. Several years ago, my wife hurt her ankle when some children ran up behind her and stepped on her heel. She spent the next few days in a wheelchair, but, we never felt that we were 'entitled' to any front of the line privileges. I'm sure the vast majority of disabilities have nothing to do with the ability to wait in line with the rest of us.
Lord_Vader
Join me, together we can rule the galaxy.
On paper this is an equitable practice, my wife is wheelchair bound on most visits with various issues including MS. There are times, once or twice per day, when we had to leave a regular line so she could use the restroom but were trapped, literally trapped in line and had to progress and hope she could hold it until we reached a point where we could get out of the line. You cannot turn a wheelchair around in a queue, a non-mobility bound guest can simply turn around and say excuse me or simply go under the dividing chains. We did have to go back to our resort twice, cost us about three hours each time which really did irritate us.
We did try to get a DAS but were denied on two tries and simply gave up. It is my opinion that TDO has gone a bit too far with restrictions as we stil lhad to wait in exceedingly LONG wheelchair lines with a FP+ reservation at BTMRR and TSMM (over an hour each on multiple occasions over two weeks from 12/21-1/3) which is completely out of Disney's control.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
It's because creativity long ago left the building at WDW and the beancounter mentality is running rampant, The Freestyle machines would have been a real draw and probably would have INCREASED tonic sales but it would have required taking a RISK which Disney no longer does.
roj2323
Well-Known Member
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
HA! I think you're confusing "risky" with "poor".
FP+ had nothing to do with risk. The BOD made their decision on that project after being presented numbers that showed it would easily pay for itself and increase revenue. Iger has said so himself.
And Avatar land was a knee-jerk reaction to the panic that set in when the Boy Wizard moved in down the street.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
From what I read Avatar has been in design and engineering for around 5 to 7 years. That's one majorly slow knee jerk reaction.
I will continue to maintain that MM+ has potential as a copyrighted system sold in modules to others in the same business or adapted to other businesses. The income potential is not with selling a couple of extra stuffed Mickeys. None of us has been in the Board Room during these discussions and they are not likely to let that information out. What we all need to do is stop second guessing the expense, thinking that the money could be used elsewhere. If they hadn't started this project the money, that hasn't yet been earned would not be allocated to another ride or a gallon of paint. That's not how business works.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Even if both of these statements are true both projects were/are pretty big risks. I don't care what kind of numbers someone puts on a spreadsheet when you spend billions on a technology driven project that has never been tried before it's a huge risk.
Avatar may be less of a risk, but is still more risky than what they did with FLE or even Carsland.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
There was little to no design work for Avatar before the announcement in 2011.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Please dig up that photo!
asianway
Well-Known Member
And what good would it do, really? Serious question
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Prove to those who were not there in the 1990's that there really WAS a lifetime mug program, When you scan picture scan BOTH sides so the processing date can be seen as well.
Anyone's who's first visit was at the turn of the century has NEVER SEEN a lifetime mug for sale those of us who are older than dirt DO remember them and even bought a few.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It wouldn't do any good. The new system is in place and you can't use lifetime mugs with it.
At this point it's just an academic debate. If you do have a picture it would be the holy grail of WDW fanboy legends. In all the years of debate on this topic both here and on other boards nobody has been able to produce any physical proof of the existence of a lifetime mug. There were a few photoshopped pictures floating around with mugs that say the word lifetime on them and that questionable e-mail that seems fake too.
I personally would like to know if the mugs I bought in the 90s were actually lifetime mugs. I never brought them back, but I'm just curious if I could have.
Goofyernmost
Well-Known Member
Do you suppose it will specify whether or not is states the lifetime of the buyer or the mug? Does it also state that the provision was for whatever specific resort it was sold at? Didn't they have different mugs for each resort? Wouldn't that limit the number and certainly not have been the problem that it turned into? It is not so much an argument about if they existed, it's a problem that developed when it became socially acceptable to go beyond the agreement originally set forth. One cannot insist on one aspect of the agreement without any regard for the portion that didn't agree with what was intended.
Regardless, Disney has decided that they will no longer honor that agreement. It's a moot point. What was, was! What is now is the only relevant thing we have to deal with. Unless, someone wants to take Disney to court over a $7.00 mug (or whatever it cost at the time). The other option, show ones displeasure by not going there anymore. That wasn't said in a flippant manner, it was said in a factual manner. Really, flogging a dead horse has very little effect on it's movement. In other words, who cares! Any one with any common sense can easily figure out that it was a perk that was abused. It was designed to get people to return to the same resort that they purchased it from. When everyone decided that it was good anywhere on property, even though, I feel confident, they weren't told that by anyone that actually knew what they were talking about, it became a problem.
Buried20KLeague
Well-Known Member
You're wrong about Avatar. 5 to 7 years??? Come on. That would be quite the magical trick, considering it was released 4 years ago.
Those kinds of statements hurt your credibility.
And where in my post did I say HOW they would get revenue from MM? And why does it matter? They were shown how they could easily recoup their money from MM. That's common sense, and not exactly a stretch. You didn't need to be in the room to know that's what happened. The proof in that (although I didn't believe him at the time and I would bet that he would have a different answer if asked now) was when Iger said they wouldn't charge for the use of the system. That they would recoup it in other ways. That could mean anything... From increased bookings to longer trips to more stuffed Mickeys and yes... To license the system to others.
Although I bet they're having second thoughts about the possibility of that last one now. I'll even be surprised if they eat their own dog food in Anaheim after all this.
I'm WELL aware how business works.
ford91exploder
Resident Curmudgeon
Same here It is indeed academic but it would help document a part of WDW history.
Like I said I stopped using my lifetime mugs long ago because I decided there was more value as souvenirs than in 'free' soft drinks, I probably have 30 of the length of stay mugs, Being virtually indestructable they are the primary drinking vessels in the RV as well and I usually drink morning car coffee out of one of them.