Rapid Fill Mug Program Fails (at more ways than you might think)

[Goofyernmost]

You're wrong about Avatar. 5 to 7 years??? Come on. That would be quite the magical trick, considering it was released 4 years ago.

Those kinds of statements hurt your credibility.

And where in my post did I say HOW they would get revenue from MM? And why does it matter? They were shown how they could easily recoup their money from MM. That's common sense, and not exactly a stretch. You didn't need to be in the room to know that's what happened. The proof in that (although I didn't believe him at the time and I would bet that he would have a different answer if asked now) was when Iger said they wouldn't charge for the use of the system. That they would recoup it in other ways. That could mean anything... From increased bookings to longer trips to more stuffed Mickeys and yes... To license the system to others.

Although I bet they're having second thoughts about the possibility of that last one now. I'll even be surprised if they eat their own dog food in Anaheim after all this.

I'm WELL aware how business works.

OMG, I'm so sorry, that I remembered the numbers incorrectly. I should be flogged. BTW, my concern for my credibility isn't even measurable. I said, from what I read. I just confused the time frame since I have absolutely no interest in Avatar at all. However, even a few years isn't really a knee jerk reaction, is it. I've been hearing about it for quite a few years now. It might have hurried the process, but, I don't think they really worried about the boy wonder up the road much until last year, if then. Sorry for my error.

 

[CDavid]

I don't think they really worried about the boy wonder up the road much until last year, if then

The real problem is that Disney is not sufficiently worried over the boy up the road even now.

 

[lazyboy97o]

OMG, I'm so sorry, that I remembered the numbers incorrectly. I should be flogged. BTW, my concern for my credibility isn't even measurable. I said, from what I read. I just confused the time frame since I have absolutely no interest in Avatar at all. However, even a few years isn't really a knee jerk reaction, is it. I've been hearing about it for quite a few years now. It might have hurried the process, but, I don't think they really worried about the boy wonder up the road much until last year, if then. Sorry for my error.

The deal was made a year after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter had opened and proved to be an insane juggernaut that shattered Disney's long-held thoughts regarding disposable income.

 

[Goofyernmost]

The deal was made a year after the Wizarding World of Harry Potter had opened and proved to be an insane juggernaut that shattered Disney's long-held thoughts regarding disposable income.

OK, so I was wrong about that. I don't think it came out of the blue (tee hee), but the arrival and success of Mr. Potter, probably did indeed create a more urgent need then had he not shown up. Either way, we are going to get a new land, so that can't be all bad can it? Maybe it comes under the heading of competition is a good thing. It will, should I live long enough, give me a reason to go to DAK again. I'm hard pressed right now to find a reason to go.

 

[Gabe1]

It will, should I live long enough, give me a reason to go to DAK again.

I absolutely love this line! I'm going to plagiarize the heck out of it!

 

[Goofyernmost]

I absolutely love this line! I'm going to plagiarize the heck out of it!

Go for it. It may very well be the only quotable thing I ever say.

 

[ford91exploder]

From what I read Avatar has been in design and engineering for around 5 to 7 years. That's one majorly slow knee jerk reaction.

I will continue to maintain that MM+ has potential as a copyrighted system sold in modules to others in the same business or adapted to other businesses. The income potential is not with selling a couple of extra stuffed Mickeys. None of us has been in the Board Room during these discussions and they are not likely to let that information out. What we all need to do is stop second guessing the expense, thinking that the money could be used elsewhere. If they hadn't started this project the money, that hasn't yet been earned would not be allocated to another ride or a gallon of paint. That's not how business works.

No one wants Disney's bug riddled monstrosity, there are a large number of systems with similar functionality that even have wristbands which WORK and work reliably, Disney may have thought they were coming up with something unique. So far all Disney has done is create a uniquely bad implementation.

For example here is the company which produces the armbands for the Coachella music festival.

http://www.idcband.co.uk/security-wristbands/rfid-wristbands/

Notice that these armbands support 'cashless payments' and 'vehicle access'

 

[Goofyernmost]

No one wants Disney's bug riddled monstrosity, there are a large number of systems with similar functionality that even have wristbands which WORK and work reliably, Disney may have thought they were coming up with something unique. So far all Disney has done is create a uniquely bad implementation.

For example here is the company which produces the armbands for the Coachella music festival.

http://www.idcband.co.uk/security-wristbands/rfid-wristbands/

Notice that these armbands support 'cashless payments' and 'vehicle access'

Could be totally correct, I don't know. I do know that my nifty little "card" worked without a flaw and I saw no one having a problem with them more significant then lining them up correctly with the reader (yes, I was looking). I watched at the rides, I watched at the counter service register and I watched at the entrance to the parks. Everyone went through with no problem. The green Mickey head shown brightly. I didn't have the bands and probably never will as I don't find them necessary to my temperament.

 

[John]

From what I read Avatar has been in design and engineering for around 5 to 7 years. That's one majorly slow knee jerk reaction.

I will continue to maintain that MM+ has potential as a copyrighted system sold in modules to others in the same business or adapted to other businesses. The income potential is not with selling a couple of extra stuffed Mickeys. None of us has been in the Board Room during these discussions and they are not likely to let that information out. What we all need to do is stop second guessing the expense, thinking that the money could be used elsewhere. If they hadn't started this project the money, that hasn't yet been earned would not be allocated to another ride or a gallon of paint. That's not how business works.

This technology is anything but new or ground breaking, it hardly has anything that is proprietary that can be copyrighted or sold. The tech has been used long ago. The value isn't and will not be in selling it to other businesses. It will be in trying to squeeze more out of its current guest.

Lets ALL of us not pretend to know or try to guess what the TWDC is or is not worried about when it comes to their competition. Uni is absolutely competition to WDW. They are in the same business and compete for all of our dollars. Weather TWDC is worried or not is pure speculation. But IMO given the amount of money at stake it would be that it is probable that the current building boom that Uni has been displaying is on TWDC's radar. It wouldn't be good business practice to just ignore it as some members here think. A few years isn't that long in todays Disney's timeline. Avatar was reported to be on-off or on a snails pace many times. Was it a reaction to Potter? We will never know. Only the BOD and top executives really know the truth.

 

[SherlockWayne]

This technology is anything but new or ground breaking, it hardly has anything that is proprietary that can be copyrighted or sold. The tech has been used long ago. The value isn't and will not be in selling it to other businesses. It will be in trying to squeeze more out of its current guest.

Lets ALL of us not pretend to know or try to guess what the TWDC is or is not worried about when it comes to their competition. Uni is absolutely competition to WDW. They are in the same business and compete for all of our dollars. Weather TWDC is worried or not is pure speculation. But IMO given the amount of money at stake it would be that it is probable that the current building boom that Uni has been displaying is on TWDC's radar. It wouldn't be good business practice to just ignore it as some members here think. A few years isn't that long in todays Disney's timeline. Avatar was reported to be on-off or on a snails pace many times. Was it a reaction to Potter? We will never know. Only the BOD and top executives really know the truth.

I don't think the question is whether or not TDO is worried about the construction. They'd only be worried about what effect it would have on the business at WDW. Considering how packed the parks are, and how there practically is no such thing as an off-season any more, that's a tricky proposition. Ultimately, new attractions are supposed to bring bodies into the park, but if the park is always packed, where's the motivation? There are philosophical questions about quality and variety, but in the end, the powers that be look at the numbers. If the numbers are satisfactory, they have little motivation to act. Now, if one of the Universal parks over takes attendance at a WDW park, I would imagine it would only concern Disney if that park's attendance has decreased.

Based on my extensive visits to the parks, I don't think Disney is all that concerned with increasing attendance, they're doing ok in that regard. Instead, it doesn't surprise me that Disney is looking for ways to increase per Guest spending. I feel like there's a "sweet spot" where you need to balance attendance versus the guest experience. If every day was like NYE, there wouldn't be many happy guests. I'm actually debating whether I want to renew my AP to Universal this year, once HP2 opens, my fear is that the parks will constantly be way too busy to enjoy. I tend to visit Universal a lot lately, but that's always been because I've found the lines are consistently shorter and the parks less crowded than WDWs. If that changes, I'm not sure what I'll choose to do. Seems sort of counter intuitive, surprised me for sure.

I still don't think MyMagic+ is a bad idea, however, I certainly think aspects of FastPass+ are not practical. I, for one, will not be surprised once Universal introduces their own wristbands.

 

[John]

I don't think the question is whether or not TDO is worried about the construction. They'd only be worried about what effect it would have on the business at WDW. Considering how packed the parks are, and how there practically is no such thing as an off-season any more, that's a tricky proposition. Ultimately, new attractions are supposed to bring bodies into the park, but if the park is always packed, where's the motivation? There are philosophical questions about quality and variety, but in the end, the powers that be look at the numbers. If the numbers are satisfactory, they have little motivation to act. Now, if one of the Universal parks over takes attendance at a WDW park, I would imagine it would only concern Disney if that park's attendance has decreased.

Based on my extensive visits to the parks, I don't think Disney is all that concerned with increasing attendance, they're doing ok in that regard. Instead, it doesn't surprise me that Disney is looking for ways to increase per Guest spending. I feel like there's a "sweet spot" where you need to balance attendance versus the guest experience. If every day was like NYE, there wouldn't be many happy guests. I'm actually debating whether I want to renew my AP to Universal this year, once HP2 opens, my fear is that the parks will constantly be way too busy to enjoy. I tend to visit Universal a lot lately, but that's always been because I've found the lines are consistently shorter and the parks less crowded than WDWs. If that changes, I'm not sure what I'll choose to do. Seems sort of counter intuitive, surprised me for sure.

I still don't think MyMagic+ is a bad idea, however, I certainly think aspects of FastPass+ are not practical. I, for one, will not be surprised once Universal introduces their own wristbands.

I agree with some of your opinions but attendance isn't the key factor here for either UNI or WDW, as you said its spending "per guest"....on my last visit next week I visited IOA....Potter in particular. I sat down near the exit area near Poseidon, I did this because I wanted to note how much merch guest were wearing/carrying etc. I was completely astounded. I really couldn't believe it. Some of it I thought could be attributed to the cold weather but it really shocked me how much I seen people wearing/carrying etc. Not to mention what I couldn't see in their pockets, bags etc. It rivals anything I have ever seen at a Disney park. I know of at least one poster here who claims Potter is a fad....me thinks he hasn't visited Uni or Potterland.

I agree there is no "off season" anymore in WDW. I also contribute that to foreign guest. I always go in January and at least 80% of guest are foreign. IMO this bodes well for TDO and Disney. I think these guest are on a once in a life time visit or visit very infrequently. I they tend to spend more. other then the increase in the "off season I think that attendance for WDW would probably be very consistent. So how can we increase profits? Also last week I stayed at CB...for the most of my stay it was an absolute ghost town. On two of my bus trips me and my gf were the only ones on the bus. The buses were never full, infact most of the time it was barely half full. For a resort that proclaims being the fifth largest resort in the world I think that is very telling. I think one of the biggest intentions of the MB is to drive occupancy at the resorts. I think they finally reached the line on their price points. The parks are packed but the resorts are hurting. That is not a good combination. The place could be packed but if those guest are not spending....you are in trouble as a business.

Just look at it, the merch is basically very generic. Not only from park to park, resort to resort. But from year to year. I have been the last three years and I bet I have spent less then $100 each year. Don't even get me started on the drop in quality of Disney pins being offered. I want to spend money on pins...I dieing to find something unique and of quality. I am begging them to give me something new and exciting. But every year the offerings continue you to dwindle and I buy maybe one or two. I am sure there are many people like me. SO Disney says....The pin collecting must be diminishing...less sales. So they continue to cut offerings. It becomes a snowball effect and one day I suspect that Disney pins will go the way of Pleasure Island. They are already going to shutter the main pin station at DTD. It probably will be reduced to a kiosk believe this is indicative of all the merch.

I know I went off on a tangent but it leads me back to the MB, what can we do to make more money? They are not giving us an exciting reason to spend money....walaaaaa! the MB. Me I think its a poor strategy . WDW, DL and basically Disney was built on quality. People never minded paying for quality. Its just not there. Is there people in the parks? Yup....but are they spending money?

 

[ford91exploder]

I agree with some of your opinions but attendance isn't the key factor here for either UNI or WDW, as you said its spending "per guest"....on my last visit next week I visited IOA....Potter in particular. I sat down near the exit area near Poseidon, I did this because I wanted to note how much merch guest were wearing/carrying etc. I was completely astounded. I really couldn't believe it. Some of it I thought could be attributed to the cold weather but it really shocked me how much I seen people wearing/carrying etc. Not to mention what I couldn't see in their pockets, bags etc. It rivals anything I have ever seen at a Disney park. I know of at least one poster here who claims Potter is a fad....me thinks he hasn't visited Uni or Potterland.

I agree there is no "off season" anymore in WDW. I also contribute that to foreign guest. I always go in January and at least 80% of guest are foreign. IMO this bodes well for TDO and Disney. I think these guest are on a once in a life time visit or visit very infrequently. I they tend to spend more. other then the increase in the "off season I think that attendance for WDW would probably be very consistent. So how can we increase profits? Also last week I stayed at CB...for the most of my stay it was an absolute ghost town. On two of my bus trips me and my gf were the only ones on the bus. The buses were never full, infact most of the time it was barely half full. For a resort that proclaims being the fifth largest resort in the world I think that is very telling. I think one of the biggest intentions of the MB is to drive occupancy at the resorts. I think they finally reached the line on their price points. The parks are packed but the resorts are hurting. That is not a good combination. The place could be packed but if those guest are not spending....you are in trouble as a business.

Just look at it, the merch is basically very generic. Not only from park to park, resort to resort. But from year to year. I have been the last three years and I bet I have spent less then $100 each year. Don't even get me started on the drop in quality of Disney pins being offered. I want to spend money on pins...I dieing to find something unique and of quality. I am begging them to give me something new and exciting. But every year the offerings continue you to dwindle and I buy maybe one or two. I am sure there are many people like me. SO Disney says....The pin collecting must be diminishing...less sales. So they continue to cut offerings. It becomes a snowball effect and one day I suspect that Disney pins will go the way of Pleasure Island. They are already going to shutter the main pin station at DTD. It probably will be reduced to a kiosk believe this is indicative of all the merch.

I know I went off on a tangent but it leads me back to the MB, what can we do to make more money? They are not giving us an exciting reason to spend money....walaaaaa! the MB. Me I think its a poor strategy . WDW, DL and basically Disney was built on quality. People never minded paying for quality. Its just not there. Is there people in the parks? Yup....but are they spending money?

Same here on pins 5 years ago it was easy to spend $200+ per trip on pins so many high quality unique offerings could not buy them all, Today it's hard work to get to $40 bucks because the pins are all generic c--p, Might find 1-2 but maybe not.

You have to SPEND money to MAKE money, This is something Disney appears to have forgotten. The bean counter mentality focuses them on cost because it's the only variable they can control. A new pin design is a risk people might not buy it the beancounter thinks so it's never greenlit and only the 'proven' sellers remain and it's a domino effect.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

You have to SPEND money to MAKE money, This is something Disney appears to have forgotten. .

Just want to highlight the most important part of your comment.

Nickel and diming guests on soda, of all stupid things, will only cause them to nickel and dime you on say, hotels. Or park merchandise. On ride photos. Meet n greet photo packages. Park hopper passes. Fancy dinners, snacks to take back to the room, a few candy apples to take home on the plane, etc.

Cheapness shows. Everywhere. You can't have a dollar store and gussy it up to look like Macy's and then charge Macy's prices. At the end of the day, it's still a dollar store.

Do they seriously not realize that by doing something that seems so small and inconsequential, they are showing their true Disney Side? And by people like US not griping about it, we're allowing it to happen...

 

[ford91exploder]

Just want to highlight the most important part of your comment.

Showing their true Disney Side? And by people like US not griping about it, we're allowing it to happen...

THIS

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

THIS

We can go back and forth quoting each other.

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

 

[ford91exploder]

We can go back and forth quoting each other.

I knew there was a reason I liked you.

I like you too

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

I like you too

I knew it! Aww, geez.

Back to the uh, subject at hand... I wonder if there are plans to try and fix this issue. I mean, besides the cheapest and easiest EVER (have everyone hand their cup to a cast member who refills it behind the counter and hands it back- but who on earth would think of doing that?!).

I still can't over it. When I was at the Poly, I wasn't thinking about how long it took me to slurp down an iced tea before refilling, when it was pushing 90 outside, in the middle of the day, and I was quickly overheating. Not exactly something I WANT to think about when I'm trying to cool off and... ya know, not yak from heat sickness.

Sigh. So stupid that in addition to all of the planning and nit picking, we now have to consider how much fluid intake we do/can possibly do/might do when considering something so offhanded as a refill mug/souvenir.

 

[eliz603]

This whole thread makes me sad. I was kind of excited when I first heard about this plan. More than once have I come back from the parks, only to realize the QS was closed (most notably at CR when we were staying in the tower. I could see the glorious machines from outside my room, yet they were closed, and I was thirsty). Or as in the case at Poly, the drink machines were so far away that it wasn't half worth doing (this was before the mugs were included in DDP). I thought this was going to a great way to keep the drink machines open 24/7.

This time, we're not doing the DDP, and we won't get mugs on the side, either. Glad we have a full fridge to hold as much as we want to buy OUTSIDE the park for our consumption in our ONSITE resort. Disney's made the whole drink thing too hard.

 

[biggy H]

This thread seems to have gone off topic... Thought it was about re-fillable mugs....

 

[flynnibus]

This thread seems to have gone off topic... Thought it was about re-fillable mugs....

Sorry, your thread refill has not hit it's timer yet..