Proof of Vaccination or Negative COVID Test required for theme parks soon?

[TP2000]

Again this is your narrative, not the reality. I don't think ANYONE here is bother by the facts when context is used. But just using data without context is whats bothersome, which is what you do all the time. You paint this picture without the actual context which makes a WHOLE difference in how you're presenting the data.

To be admitted to Universal Studios Hollywood you must now show proof of vaccination.

This is the demographic data on who is vaccinated in Los Angeles County as of October 14th, and thus who is no longer allowed in to Universal Studios. (Or Denny's, or a nail salon, or Old Navy, or the UPS Store, etc., etc.)

Asians = 82.2% Vaccinated (1.2 Million people)
American Indians = 76.9% Vaccinated (21,228 people)
Whites = 73.0% Vaccinated (2.5 Million people)
Latinos = 63.6% Vaccinated (4.1 Million people)
Blacks = 55.5% Vaccinated (725,000 people)

And you are good with that? Because I'm not.

After thought, I have come to the realization that these are adults making conscious decisions to not get a Covid shot. And so we must respect them and their adult decisions. These are not stupid people who don't know better, they made this decision for themselves.

To then have an LA government (made up of buffoons who are increasingly under federal indictment for fraud and malfeasance) decide those adults should be punished for their medical decisions and not allowed to access private business and public accomodations is not acceptable to me.

I'm not sure what other "context" we need to understand that.

 

[Disney Irish]

To be admitted to Universal Studios Hollywood you must now show proof of vaccination.

This is the demographic data on who is vaccinated in Los Angeles County as of October 14th, and thus who is no longer allowed in to Universal Studios. (Or Denny's, or a nail salon, or Old Navy, or the UPS Store, etc., etc.)

Asians = 82.2% Vaccinated (1.2 Million people)
American Indians = 76.9% Vaccinated (21,228 people)
Whites = 73.0% Vaccinated (2.5 Million people)
Latinos = 63.6% Vaccinated (4.1 Million people)
Blacks = 55.5% Vaccinated (725,000 people)

And you are good with that? Because I'm not.

After thought, I have come to the realization that these are adults making conscious decisions to not get a Covid shot. And so we must respect them and their adult decisions. These are not stupid people who don't know better, they made this decision for themselves.

To then have an LA government (made up of buffoons who are increasingly under federal indictment for fraud and malfeasance) decide those adults should be punished for their medical decisions and not allowed to access private business and public accomodations is not acceptable to me.

I'm not sure what other "context" we need to understand that.

Again you spouting off demographics without the context. This is not just "adults making a conscious decision", because that is missing the whole context of WHY which includes cultural stigmas about healthcare.

Places all around LA county are working to combat the vaccine hesitancy in the Black and Latino communities. For example Cedars Sinai has been focusing on community outreach programs:

https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/vaccine-hesitancy.html

These are things that will help in the long term. But just spouting off demographics without that context does not.

You asked a direct question to me, so I'm going to answer it. Am I ok with mandated vaccinations to access services, yes. Vaccine mandates aren't new, have been used in this country since George Washington was President. And being vaccinated is required to go to school in this state, as has been pointed out previously. And it will now include being vaccinated for COVID19 as part of that vaccine regiment to go to school.

 

[Sailor310]

I really don't want to get in the middle of this but perhaps the

Tuskegee Syphilis Study​

would explain why some minority folks are still suspicious about government (US Public Health Service) programs.

 

[TP2000]

I really don't want to get in the middle of this but perhaps the

Tuskegee Syphilis Study​

would explain why some minority folks are still suspicious about government (US Public Health Service) programs.

Dive on in, the water's fine!

Yes, I'm sure we've all seen that topic. I watched a very interesting PBS documentary about it once.

But I'm not willing to buy that as the big reason why Black Americans are among the least vaccinated (at least in LA County, but I imagine it's a demographic trend that holds elsewhere too). I imagine there are many reasons that meld into a broader cultural reality.

The simple fact is that at this point in late 2021, large numbers of Black and Latino folks are making a conscious decision as adults to not get vaccinated. It's not because they are too inept to figure out where the vaccines are offered in their local neighborhood (they aren't inept), and it's not because they are too disconnected from reality to know the vaccines are free (they aren't disconnected), and it's not because they don't know that Covid is a serious disease for the old and the obese and the sickly (they aren't stupid). I think they know all those basics and have processed them mentally, because they are just as mature as someone who makes more money than them and lives in Pasadena instead of Compton.

But they've chosen to not get vaccinated regardless. They made that adult decision, and so long as they gave it some thought (which we all have for the past 10 months), I can respect their decision.

What I can't respect is a local government who then forces private businesses to prevent the unvaccinated from accessing business and public accomodations. That's really dumb, and I'm glad to see businesses large and small push back on that.

 

[TP2000]

You asked a direct question to me, so I'm going to answer it. Am I ok with mandated vaccinations to access services, yes. Vaccine mandates aren't new, have been used in this country since George Washington was President.

I'm playing a brain game with myself and not going to Google. I know smallpox was the first vaccine, and it was invented in Britain after a doctor took a culture from a milkmaid's blistered hand (or so the story goes from misty memories of 10th grade science class). But was that back in the mid 1700's? I thought it was more like the 1800's.

Again, without being lazy and going to Google... did we really have vaccines in the 1770's? I could have sworn the smallpox vaccine was an 1800's invention in Britain.

And being vaccinated is required to go to school in this state, as has been pointed out previously. And it will now include being vaccinated for COVID19 as part of that vaccine regiment to go to school.

Los Angeles is going way beyond vaccinating schoolchildren (which I fully support in general). You've never had to show a Polio or Measles immunization record to get in to Denny's or Macy's before. This is a brand new concept, and interestingly is only being attempted in LA and NYC.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. So far, it's not making any noticeable improvement in vaccination rates in LA County.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'm playing a brain game with myself and not going to Google. I know smallpox was the first vaccine, and it was invented in Britain after a doctor took a culture from a milkmaid's blistered hand (or so the story goes from misty memories of 10th grade science class). But was that back in the mid 1700's? I thought it was more like the 1800's.

Again, without being lazy and going to Google... did we really have vaccines in the 1770's? I could have sworn the smallpox vaccine was an 1800's invention in Britain.



Los Angeles is going way beyond vaccinating schoolchildren (which I fully support in general). You've never had to show a Polio or Measles immunization record to get in to Denny's or Macy's before. This is a brand new concept, and interestingly is only being attempted in LA and NYC.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out. So far, it's not making any noticeable improvement in vaccination rates in LA County.

Washington ordered the mass inoculation for Small Pox of the Continental Army and informed Congress of it on February 5th 1777 -

Where did the article “George Washington and the First Mass Military Inoculation” go? - Ask a Librarian

www.loc.gov

So we have a history of vaccination mandates in this country that goes back to the beginning.

 

[TP2000]

Vaccine mandates aren't new, have been used in this country since George Washington was President.

Washington ordered the mass inoculation for Small Pox of the Continental Army and informed Congress of it on February 5th 1777 -

Where did the article “George Washington and the First Mass Military Inoculation” go? - Ask a Librarian

www.loc.gov

Oooooh! Got it. You aren't talking about vaccination as in your first comment, you are talking about innoculation, which you corrected for your second comment.

I broke down and went to Google. Miss Voight, my high school biology teacher was right, the first vaccine wasn't created until the 1800's, for smallpox. In that horribly racist country called Great Britain. From a racist English doctor working with a milkmaid's blistered hands.

Bully for Miss Voight! I think it's hilarious that her lessons transcended the decades and came to me in a pre-cocktail fog the way they did.

As for innoculations, I think they probably still do those in some countries. We even did them into the mid 20th century in this country. I specifically remember having to go to a Chickenpox Party at my friend Norman's house around 6th grade. Parents use to do that in those days. Apparently there's now a vaccine for Chickenpox that all American children get, and that rules out Chickenpox Parties.

For the life of me I wish I could remember Norman's last name; I'd love to look him up and find out if he survived the 20th century with the rest of us! I remember his mother being very German, but I can't remember the family surname to save my life.

So we have a history of vaccination mandates in this country that goes back to the beginning.

Since you live up there in the Bay Area, I tip my hat to you for being so bold as to say out loud that our Founding Father's weren't all horrible people who should have their names stripped from schools and erased from history.

San Francisco to remove names of Washington and Lincoln from schools

School board voted to give 44 schools new names with no connection to slavery, oppression or racism

www.theguardian.com

Even though George Washington was not an active supporter of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ (Google that, because a cat did not just run across my keyboard) community, I do think he was a great leader and a founding father of the best nation this planet has ever seen, and for that I'm thankful to him.

And if innoculation was good enough for him and Norman's mother, then it's good enough for me!

 

[Disney Irish]

Oooooh! Got it. You aren't talking about vaccination as in your first comment, you are talking about innoculation, which you corrected for your second comment.

I broke down and went to Google. Miss Voight, my high school biology teacher was right, the first vaccine wasn't created until the 1800's, for smallpox. In that horribly racist country called Great Britain. From a racist English doctor working with a milkmaid's blistered hands.

Bully for Miss Voight! I think it's hilarious that her lessons transcended the decades and came to me in a pre-cocktail fog the way they did.

As for innoculations, I think they probably still do those in some countries. We even did them into the mid 20th century in this country. I specifically remember having to go to a Chickenpox Party at my friend Norman's house around 6th grade. Parents use to do that in those days. Apparently there's now a vaccine for Chickenpox that all American children get, and that rules out Chickenpox Parties.

For the life of me I wish I could remember Norman's last name; I'd love to look him up and find out if he survived the 20th century with the rest of us! I remember his mother being very German, but I can't remember the family surname to save my life.



Since you live up there in the Bay Area, I tip my hat to you for being so bold as to say out loud that our Founding Father's weren't all horrible people who should have their names stripped from schools and erased from history.

San Francisco to remove names of Washington and Lincoln from schools

School board voted to give 44 schools new names with no connection to slavery, oppression or racism

www.theguardian.com

Even though George Washington was not an active supporter of the 2SLGBTQQIA+ (Google that, because a cat did not just run across my keyboard) community, I do think he was a great leader and a founding father of the best nation this planet has ever seen, and for that I'm thankful to him.

And if innoculation was good enough for him and Norman's mother, then it's good enough for me!

I think you have a misunderstanding of basic science. Inoculation and vaccination in the context being used here are exactly the same thing. They both mean to introduce something such as a weakened virus or antigen into the body to stimulate disease resistance.

"Vaccinate" vs. "Inoculate" vs. "Immunize": What Are The Differences?

In combatting the COVID-19 pandemic, the words "vaccinate," "inoculate," and "immunize" come up in headlines daily. Can they be used interchangeably, though?

www.dictionary.com

That is exactly what Washington ordered of the Continental Army back in 1777. So as I correctly stated before, we've had vaccination mandates to protect against diseases in this country since the very beginning.

As for school renamings, that has nothing to do with me and absolutely nothing to do with this conversation.

 

[Sailor310]

The image claims, "George Washington mandated smallpox vaccines for the Continental Army."

The shorthanded history is basically right. The smallpox vaccine didn’t exist when Washington was commander in chief of the Continental Army, but the point remains: he ordered the inoculation of troops against smallpox by the means that was then available, variolation.

Back then, the inoculation process was called variolation, named after the virus that causes smallpox — the variola virus.

It involved exposing people to the virus by scratching material from smallpox sores into their arms or having them inhale it, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Variolation was eventually replaced by vaccination after an English doctor named Edward Jenner noticed in 1796 that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were immune to smallpox, according to the CDC. He guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect people against smallpox and developed a vaccine.

We rate this post Mostly True.

 

[Disney Irish]

The image claims, "George Washington mandated smallpox vaccines for the Continental Army."

The shorthanded history is basically right. The smallpox vaccine didn’t exist when Washington was commander in chief of the Continental Army, but the point remains: he ordered the inoculation of troops against smallpox by the means that was then available, variolation.

Back then, the inoculation process was called variolation, named after the virus that causes smallpox — the variola virus.

It involved exposing people to the virus by scratching material from smallpox sores into their arms or having them inhale it, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Variolation was eventually replaced by vaccination after an English doctor named Edward Jenner noticed in 1796 that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were immune to smallpox, according to the CDC. He guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect people against smallpox and developed a vaccine.

We rate this post Mostly True.

Yep, to vaccinate literally means to "inoculate" using a vaccine.

 

[TP2000]

The image claims, "George Washington mandated smallpox vaccines for the Continental Army."

The shorthanded history is basically right. The smallpox vaccine didn’t exist when Washington was commander in chief of the Continental Army, but the point remains: he ordered the inoculation of troops against smallpox by the means that was then available, variolation.

Back then, the inoculation process was called variolation, named after the virus that causes smallpox — the variola virus.

It involved exposing people to the virus by scratching material from smallpox sores into their arms or having them inhale it, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Variolation was eventually replaced by vaccination after an English doctor named Edward Jenner noticed in 1796 that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were immune to smallpox, according to the CDC. He guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect people against smallpox and developed a vaccine.

We rate this post Mostly True.

So.... yeah.

Innoculation was like having a Chickenpox Party at Norman's house, where all the kids who hadn't got chickenpox yet were sent to have a party and all get chickenpox.

Vaccination is different. It's going to CVS to get a shot for Covid, or Measles, or Tetanus.

Vaccination wasn't invented until the 1800's, long after Washington was our first President (racist!).

 

[Disney Irish]

So.... yeah.

Innoculation was like having a Chickenpox Party at Norman's house, where all the kids who hadn't got chickenpox yet were sent to have a party and all get chickenpox.

Vaccination is different. It's going to CVS to get a shot for Covid, or Measles, or Tetanus.

Vaccination wasn't invented until the 1800's, long after Washington was our first President (racist!).

Vaccination IS inoculation my friend. That is what you keep missing.

When you get that shot from CVS you are getting inoculated for a specific disease.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

vaccinate​

[ vak-suh-neyt ]

Medicine/Medical




See synonyms for: vaccinate / vaccinated on Thesaurus.com

---

verb (used with object), vac·ci·nat·ed, vac·ci·nat·ing.
to inoculate with the vaccine of cowpox so as to render the subject immune to smallpox.
to inoculate with the modified virus of any of various other diseases, as a preventive measure.

 

[TP2000]

Vaccination IS inoculation my friend. That is what you keep missing.

When you get that shot from CVS you are getting inoculated for a specific disease.

Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words

The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!

www.dictionary.com

vaccinate​

[ vak-suh-neyt ]

Medicine/Medical


See synonyms for: vaccinate / vaccinated on Thesaurus.com

---

verb (used with object), vac·ci·nat·ed, vac·ci·nat·ing.
to inoculate with the vaccine of cowpox so as to render the subject immune to smallpox.
to inoculate with the modified virus of any of various other diseases, as a preventive measure.

You said George Washington vaccinated his troops. That is false. He innouculated them. Miss Voight would correct you too.

Vaccine mandates aren't new, have been used in this country since George Washington was President.

George Washington was Commander in Chief in the 1770's, and then President from 1789 to 1797. The first vaccine wasn't created until 1798 as a test over in England, and vaccinations didn't become widely used until later in the 1800's.

You can't give someone a vaccine before vaccines were invented, just like you can't fly in an airplane before 1903. But you could inoculate them by making all the troops hang out together and all catch smallpox; most of the troops recovered, but some didn't. Then, the ones who recovered were sent off to war. Big win!

I just Googled.... If any US President deserves praise for starting vaccinations in the US, it's Thomas Jefferson around 1805. Jefferson was a huge proponent of vaccinations against smallpox, and did work that eventually led to the creation of the U.S. Vaccine Agency in 1813.

 

[Disney Irish]

You said George Washington vaccinated his troops. That is false. He innouculated them.



George Washington was Commander in Chief in the 1770's, and then President from 1789 to 1797. The first vaccine wasn't created until 1798 as a test over in England, and vaccinations didn't become widely used until later in the 1800's.

You can't give someone a vaccine before vaccines were invented. But you could inoculate them by making all the troops hang out together and all catch smallpox; most of the troops recovered, but some didn't. Then, the ones who recovered were sent off to war. Big win!

Dude you're playing semantics here. The term vaccination and inoculation are interchangeable here. You are inoculated when you are vaccinated. The term inoculation is hardly even used outside of medical community at this point anyways, which is why the terms are interchangeable since vaccination literally means to inoculate.

But if you want to play that game, fine. Washington gave the order, a mandate, to protect the Continental Army against Small Pox using the medical means at his disposal at the time. This is the same thing that is happening today. So the idea of mandates, or orders for specific public health directives such as getting protected against a specific disease using the latest medical technology, have been used in this country since the beginning of the nation. That is the point that was being made, and you know that.

 

[TP2000]

Dude you're playing semantics here. The term vaccination and inoculation (you aren't even spelling it right) are interchangeable here. You are inoculated when you are vaccinated. The term inoculation is hardly even used outside of medical community at this point anyways, which is why the terms are interchangeable since vaccination literally means to inoculate.

But if you want to play that game, fine. Washington gave the order, a mandate, to protect the Continental Army against Small Pox using the medical means at his disposal at the time. This is the same thing that is happening today. So the idea of mandates, or orders for specific public health directives, have been used in this country since the beginning of the nation. That is the point that was being made, and you know that.

You are inoculated when you catch a virus and survive it. You are vaccinated when you get a vaccine that creates antibodies. Norman's Chickenpox Party was inoculation.

I didn't go to a Covid Party to get inoculated, I went to CVS and got a vaccine.

You tried to say George Washington vaccinated his troops at our nation's founding in the 1770's, as if he had a syringe of smallpox vaccine in his hand as he crossed the Delaware. And I thought "Huh? I'm pretty sure vaccine technology didn't come along until later..." with Miss Voight in the depths of my mind droning on about antibodies and frog's lungs and synapses.

Hell, I didn't even Google this stuff at first. I just knew, thanks to Miss Voight, that vaccination was invented after George Washington. Got to love 20th century public school education!

George Washington Crosses the Delaware - 22 Years Before The First Smallpox Vaccine

 

[TP2000]

As far as vaccine mandates for schoolkids go, I'm fine with that. Although, there needs to be exemptions for firmly held beliefs, either religious or otherwise.

But if you are vaccinated, you have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. And the unvaccinated have made a conscious decision as an adult that should be respected. So just move on with your life.

After all this dialogue about it here the last day or two, I'm of the firm belief that all those Latinos and Blacks who are not vaccinated in Southern California here in late 2021 have made that decision on purpose. I respect their decision.

And I am happy to see more and more private businesses up in LA publicly stating they will not enforce vaccine mandates among the customers or employees at their stores and businesses. Adults need to be responsible for themselves.

 

[Disney Irish]

You are inoculated when you catch a virus and survive it. You are vaccinated when you get a vaccine that creates antibodies. Norman's Chickenpox Party was inoculation.

I didn't go to a Covid Party to get inoculated, I went to CVS and got a vaccine.

Dude you're wrong here.

To vaccinate means to "inoculate" via a vaccine.

Yes I was incorrect when I stated Washington mandated by "vaccination", but I was using the term to mean to inoculate, using the terms interchangeably. So my apologies if you didn't understand or took it to mean that Washington mandated the use of a vaccine which is not what I intended.

To inoculate isn't via a specific mechanism such as your "Norman Chickenpox Party" example. It just means to implant (a disease agent or antigen) in a person, animal, or plant to produce a disease for study or to stimulate disease resistance. That is exactly what happens when you get vaccinated via a vaccine. So again to get vaccinated via a vaccine means to be "inoculated" for a specific disease, its interchangeable at this point.

I really didn't think we needed to get into a vocabulary lesson here, but evidently we do.

 

[TP2000]

Yes I was incorrect when I stated Washington mandated by "vaccination",

That's all I needed to hear.

 

[Dear Prudence]

So far only Pfizer is available on My Turn CA. Ready for the other two to join its ranks. Can't wait to get boosted!

 

[TP2000]

So far only Pfizer is available on My Turn CA. Ready for the other two to join its ranks. Can't wait to get boosted!

Just go to CVS and ask for one. That's what I did in San Diego, and only because I had a bunch of folks at the tennis club bar tell me that's what they did. Back here in OC I've heard similar tales from friends.

Don't wait. Just go to CVS or Target or Walgreens and ask for a free shot.