Proof of Vaccination or Negative COVID Test required for theme parks soon?

[Californian Elitist]

I'm aware, but still got to try and educated the uninformed.

When the efforts are in vain, the point ceases to exist. I appreciate you trying and what you’ve been saying though. It’s reality.

 

[Disney Irish]

Sadly, that was my childhood training. You went to a doctor for a birth certificate or a death certificate. I lived with serious illnesses for over a decade before I got a good real job with good health insurance and I could get necessary surgeries. My white middle class boyfriend helped introduce me to the world of medical care.

Yep, a lot of people don't realize this is a cultural thing that is passed down from generation to generation. And when you have a healthcare system that for decades did things based on race its no surprise why certain segments of the population are hesitant to get in line for even a free vaccine.

 

[Disney Irish]

When the efforts are in vain, the point ceases to exist. I appreciate you trying and what you’ve been saying though. It’s reality.

I guess some people don't want to see the actual reality of the world outside their own, but instead think their little view of the world is the reality for everyone.

I appreciate your personal insights and experiences on these topics when you do wade into the discussion.

 

[TP2000]

When the efforts are in vain, the point ceases to exist. I appreciate you trying and what you’ve been saying though. It’s reality.

The fact are simply the facts.

The least vaccinated people in Southern California are not white people, as was incorrectly alleged several times by people here. The least vaccinated in Southern California are Latinos and Blacks. We are discussing why that is.

You may be uncomfortable with discussing facts, but here we are, discussing facts.

 

[TP2000]

Sadly, that was my childhood training. You went to a doctor for a birth certificate or a death certificate. I lived with serious illnesses for over a decade before I got a good real job with good health insurance and I could get necessary surgeries. My white middle class boyfriend helped introduce me to the world of medical care.

That is just so... odd. But I believe you if you say that's how things were in your family.

I'm an old guy, but I've never had a surgery. Never broken a bone, in fact. Most serious medical problem I've ever faced was slicing my thumb open on a rusty nail around 1982 or '83 while on vacation; went to the emergency room in a strange town and got a few stitches and a Tetanus shot. I did get a lecture a few years ago from my doctor about losing some weight, so I did. But other than that, going to the doctor was just one of those things you did annually because you were a modern human.

I hope you thanked your white middle-class boyfriend for getting you into routine medical care.

What about the dentist? Did you ever go to the dentist for semi-annual check ups and cleaning? Fillings? Braces? That cheesy Zoom teeth whitening thing? (I never had braces - it was way too expensive back then. I had plenty of metal fillings that were replaced with ceramics over a decade ago. I've never done teeth whitening, but I try to do a peroxide mouth rinse after I drink red wine.)

 

[TP2000]

I am idiotically afraid of needles. Never give blood and freak out when it's my annual check up MASSIVE NEEDLE to take blood time.

I got it.

I'm the same. I refuse to give blood because the needle just creeps me out so badly. I was able to get a pass because I'm gay and for the past few decades gay men weren't allowed to give blood. But now we can give blood again. But I still don't. It's creepy and I hate the thought of it.

But I still got a Covid shot. Plus all my other shots in the last few years; TDaP, Pneumovax23, Shingrix, Flucelvax, etc.

At some point you just have to be a responsible adult and do what you need to do.

 

[TP2000]

And I lied. I feel myself getting pulled back in against my better judgment.

Why not? What the heck else are we going to talk about here... Genie+ or how there's no parades or night shows in Anaheim?

Trying not to push fair use too far, more quotes from the Times article:

"The Covid States team shared with me more than a thousand comments from unvaccinated people who were surveyed. Scrolling through them, I noticed a lot more fear than certainty. There was the very, very rare “it’s a hoax” and “it’s a gene therapy,” but most of it was a version of: I’m not sure it’s safe. Was it developed too fast? Do we know enough? There was also a lot of fear of side effects, worries about lack of Food and Drug Administration approval and about yet-undiscovered dangers.

Okay, so that seems like the average concerns of average Americans who aren't convinced they should get a Covid shot. Nothing new there, it's commentary heard from Idaho to Florida. And it all seems like sane, valid questions. No harm there.

"It’s easy to say that all these people should have been more informed or sought advice from a medical provider, except that many have no health care provider. As of 2015, one quarter of the population in the United States had no primary health care provider to turn to for trusted advice.

Here's where the author loses me. I didn't consult my doctor before I got a Covid shot, I just did it on my own. For the vast majority of Americans in 2021 it isn't about going to your doctor's office during business hours, it's about going to a government Supersite or a CVS or a WalMart or a public park or a community center, or if you live in Compton the closest light rail platform, and getting the darn shot your own self. Because it's Covid. Because we all know what Covid is. Because you have to be responsible for yourself.

Waiting in line at Anaheim Vaccination Supersite in Toy Story Parking Lot

Wating in line at Dodger Stadium Drive-Thru Vaccination Supersite in Los Angeles

"Along with the recognition of greater risk, access to regular health care may be an important explanation of why those over 65 are the most-vaccinated demographic in the country. They have Medicare. That might have increased their immunity against the Fox News scare stories.

So apparently the under-vaccinated working classes of Blacks and Latinos all watch Fox News? Who knew?

It's also obvious the author has never actually watched Fox News.

"Plus, let’s face it, interacting with the medical system can be stress-inducing even for many of us with health insurance. Any worry about long-term side effects is worsened by a system in which even a minor illness can produce unpredictable and potentially huge expenses."
Interestingly, she also mentions that as many as 25% of people have a needle phobia which causes about 16% to avoid any shots.

Yup. Many people hate needles. See my comments above. But at some point you just need to be a mature adult and do things you don't like. Getting vaccinated against disease is one of them. Or paying taxes. Or eating some vegetables occasionally. Or skipping dessert. Or cleaning out the refrigerator. Or dragging the trash cans out to the curb at 11pm in the rain because tomorrow is trash day.

It's called being a responsible adult. And it's not new.

Let's see if I can stay bowed out.

Why would you do that? It's a discussion board!

 

[Disney Irish]

The fact are simply the facts.

Facts are the facts, and the fact is you have no experience living in same areas as the lower income population that you love to spout demographics about. Unless all of a sudden you changed from an older gay White man to a middle aged Black or Latino man or woman in the last day. So why not actually listen to the people that come from those areas and have those experiences on this very topic.

The least vaccinated people in Southern California are not white people, as was incorrectly alleged several times by people here. The least vaccinated in Southern California are Latinos and Blacks. We are discussing why that is.

And every time someone has tried to explain it you you come up with some quip on why that isn't the reality and that its idiotic for people in 2021 to feel that way. You aren't listening to the real experiences that people keep telling you is happening. Sorry that you don't believe it but its the real reality actually happen today in 2021, not what you believe is the reality.

You may be uncomfortable with discussing facts, but here we are, discussing facts.

I can't speak for her but I highly doubt that @raven24 is uncomfortable talking about her experiencing growing up as a black child in the healthcare system, based on her previous posts.

Instead of assuming her comfort level why not ask her her experience as a child growing up in the healthcare system and thoughts on why certain segments of the Southern California population are still unvaccinated. And instead of coming up with some quips on why you don't believe it, actually LISTEN to what she has to say. That is of course if you actually want to learn from the very people you love to tout statistics on.

 

[Parteecia]

That is just so... odd.

It is odd to you but 'way too common.

I hope you thanked your white middle-class boyfriend for getting you into routine medical care.

I dumped him for someone better. Kept the house.

What about the dentist? Did you ever go to the dentist for semi-annual check ups and cleaning? Fillings? Braces? That cheesy Zoom teeth whitening thing?

None of that until I got that good job. Never had any problems with my teeth until a few years ago after I had to give up sugar.

Why would you do that? It's a discussion board!

Sometimes my blood pressure forgets not to take it too seriously.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The fact are simply the facts.

The least vaccinated people in Southern California are not white people, as was incorrectly alleged several times by people here. The least vaccinated in Southern California are Latinos and Blacks. We are discussing why that is.

You may be uncomfortable with discussing facts, but here we are, discussing facts.

LOL.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Instead of assuming her comfort level why not ask her her experience as a child growing up in the healthcare system and thoughts on why certain segments of the Southern California population are still unvaccinated. And instead of coming up with some quips on why you don't believe it, actually LISTEN to what she has to say. That is of course if you actually want to learn from the very people you love to tout statistics on.

Not going to happen. The curiosity and desire to gain any insight is nonexistent and disingenuous.

 

[TP2000]

It is odd to you but 'way too common.

It just seems odd to be that afraid of going to the doctor, or Urgent Care, or a hospital. Or during a pandemic, using that as an excuse not to go get a free shot.

It seems to be a real, factual problem. The facts and data support it.

I dumped him for someone better. Kept the house.

Ha! I love that! Good for you!

 

[TP2000]

Facts are the facts, and the fact is you have no experience living in same areas as the lower income population that you love to spout demographics about. Unless all of a sudden you changed from an older gay White man to a middle aged Black or Latino man or woman in the last day. So why not actually listen to the people that come from those areas and have those experiences on this very topic.

I am not many, many things. I am not a corn farmer in Iowa, I am not a policeman in Denver, I am not a mailman in Savannah, nor am I a hotel lifegaurd in Honolulu. But I can use data and facts to ascertain some things about those people.

Blacks and Latinos are the least vaccinated people among the 20 Million people living in Southern California.

And now, the government of Los Angeles County and city is going to make it illegal for those folks to get into businesses and access public accomodations. To what extent private businesses go along with that and don't let unvaccinated people in to their businesses is up for debate.

Cracks are already appearing from big corporate names. In-N-Out refuses to obey. Delta Airlines now refuses to obey. There's likely thousands of small businesses in LA already refusing. Etc., etc.

And every time someone has tried to explain it you you come up with some quip on why that isn't the reality and that its idiotic for people in 2021 to feel that way. You aren't listening to the real experiences that people keep telling you is happening. Sorry that you don't believe it but its the real reality actually happen today in 2021, not what you believe is the reality.

I believe it to an extent. I do not believe that large numbers of Latino and Black schoolchildren are unvaccinated against Polio and Measles and Tetanus. I do not believe that there's some mystical force that prevents Black and Latino folks from going to Urgent Care during a health emergency or buying Tylenol at WalMart.

What I do believe is that a large number of Black and Latino folks have made a concsious decision to not get a Covid shot. Now the government is going to make them pay for that decision and prevent them from going to Denny's, or the barber, or Target, or the gym, or Universal Studios.

That's wrong for the government to do that. We must respect the concsious decision of people to not get a Covid shot, for whatever reason they have. Do I personally wish they'd get vaccinated? Yes. Do I think anyone has the right to force them to against their will? No.

 

[TP2000]

LOL.

View attachment 594483

Here's the latest facts and data on vaccinations among the 10 Million people living in Los Angeles County. See if this makes you chuckle...

So far, the vaccine mandate for Los Angeles County is not having an impact on vaccination rates. They've been flatlined since early September and continue to be low. I do have to believe the mandate will have some sort of impact, but we're just not seeing it yet.

The vaccination demographic data of Angelenos over the age of 12 has held steady all summer long and continues into the fall. As of October 14th, 2021...

Asians = 82.2% Vaccinated (1.2 Million people)
American Indians = 76.9% Vaccinated (21,228 people)
Whites = 73.0% Vaccinated (2.5 Million people)
Latinos = 63.6% Vaccinated (4.1 Million people)
Blacks = 55.5% Vaccinated (725,000 people)

Age 65-79 = 97.2% Vaccinated
Age 18-29 = 70.8% Vaccinated

Women continue to be about 5% more vaccinated than men.

So the statistical person in LA County most likely to be unvaccinated and thus prevented from accessing public accomodations this fall would be a young, Black, male. Second place goes to a young, Latino, male. Most likely to be vaccinated in LA is an older, Asian, female; she can waltz right in to Universal Studios like she owns the joint!

LA County COVID-19 Vaccine Dashboard - LA County Department of Public Health

publichealth.lacounty.gov

 

[Disney Irish]

But I can use data and facts to ascertain some things about those people.

Except that data you keep using doesn't paint the real picture as there is no context, that is the problem with just quoting data without the context. It glosses over the reality of the cultural reasons for low vaccination rates in those communities. You've quipped, made jokes, and called them idiotic, but never once tried to actually understand and listen to the real reality of the situations in those communities. You make assumptions and just chalk it up to "they made a conscious decision not to get the shot", but never once trying to understand WHY its happening.

If you want to gain the real insight, stop quoting stats, stop quipping, and actually listen to people who have real world experience to find out the real reasons. @Parteecia has provided some real world experience, and yet you still call it "odd" a word that still indicates disbelief. If you really wanted to learn you wouldn't call it "odd", you'd inquire more. But you'd rather just quip, quote your stats, and not get too deep into the real reality because it would get in the way of your afternoon cocktail.

 

[denyuntilcaught]

It just seems odd to be that afraid of going to the doctor, or Urgent Care, or a hospital. Or during a pandemic, using that as an excuse not to go get a free shot.

It seems to be a real, factual problem. The facts and data support it.



Ha! I love that! Good for you!

I think the nuance that some are willfully ignoring here is that no one is trying to give an excuse to Black or Hispanic individuals for not getting the shot (and mind you, showing reluctance to vaccines is different than being anti-vax, another nuance), but is just explaining the hesitation. It's the reason, not an excuse. TP2000, to your point, does that change the outcome? No. Not at all. You're spot on there! But there's a larger conversation happening here that I don't think anyone should be turning their nose to regarding minority population's historical relationship with the government healthcare system.

The charts and percentages you present here are fun and helpful, but don't address the point others are making. Rather, they're missing them by a mile.

 

[TP2000]

Except that data you keep using doesn't paint the real picture as there is no context, that is the problem with just quoting data without the context. It glosses over the reality of the cultural reasons for low vaccination rates in those communities. You've quipped, made jokes, and called them idiotic, but never once tried to actually understand and listen to the real reality of the situations in those communities. You make assumptions and just chalk it up to "they made a conscious decision not to get the shot", but never once trying to understand WHY its happening.

If you want to gain the real insight, stop quoting stats, stop quipping, and actually listen to people who have real world experience to find out the real reasons. @Parteecia has provided some real world experience, and yet you still call it "odd" a word that still indicates disbelief. If you really wanted to learn you wouldn't call it "odd", you'd inquire more.

So when a middle class white person consciously decides to not get vaccinated, that's bad and we should make fun of them and blame Fox News?

But when a working class non-white person consciously decides to not get vaccinated, that's not bad and we should all listen respectfully to the reasons they have for making that concscious decision?

Got it. But I still think that's odd. And I'm not going to pretend I feel otherwise.

But you'd rather just quip, quote your stats, and not get too deep into the real reality because it would get in the way of your afternoon cocktail.

The facts and data really do seem to bother some folks here. I find that fascinating.

For the record, it's an evening cocktail. I just don't like alcohol when the sun is up. This time of year cocktail time happens around 6:15pm, but it's getting earlier by the day as the sun sets earlier and earlier.

 

[TP2000]

I think the nuance that some are willfully ignoring here is that no one is trying to give an excuse to Black or Hispanic individuals for not getting the shot (and mind you, showing reluctance to vaccines is different than being anti-vax, another nuance), but is just explaining the hesitation. It's the reason, not an excuse. TP2000, to your point, does that change the outcome? No. Not at all. You're spot on there! But there's a larger conversation happening here that I don't think anyone should be turning their nose to regarding minority population's historical relationship with the government healthcare system.

True. There is definitely nuance to all of this. Which is why I get so annoyed when people try and blame blanket demographics for anything. These are adults making concsious decisions about their own health care, and with the exception of the drug-addicted or profoundly stupid, I think we need to respect their decision to not get vaccinated. (As much as I disagree with anti-vax sentiment personally).

What I find really interesting is how extremely high the vaccination rates are for American Indians. I have a good doctor friend who has worked nearly his entire career giving some time to the Indian Health Service, and he's got wonderful stories to tell about that.

Whatever they're doing, they're doing it correctly and the data behind American Indian vaccination rates proves it.

American Indians Have Highest COVID Vaccine Rate

In May 2021, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) announced on Twitter that its COVID-19 data tracker now displays U.S. vaccination progress by race and ethnicity. The tracker, “Percent of People Receiving COVID-19 Vaccine by Race/Ethnicity and Date Reported to CDC, United States,” s

www.nicoa.org

The charts and percentages you present here are fun and helpful, but don't address the point others are making. Rather, they're missing them by a mile.

What's interesting is that we've had several folks here try to trot out the trope that it's all those pesky white people watching Fox News who aren't getting vaccinated. The data shows that to be false.

Unless there's some huge group of Tucker Carlson fans in working class Compton no one knew about?

 

[Californian Elitist]

Here's the latest facts and data on vaccinations among the 10 Million people living in Los Angeles County. See if this makes you chuckle...

So far, the vaccine mandate for Los Angeles County is not having an impact on vaccination rates. They've been flatlined since early September and continue to be low. I do have to believe the mandate will have some sort of impact, but we're just not seeing it yet.

View attachment 594534
The vaccination demographic data of Angelenos over the age of 12 has held steady all summer long and continues into the fall. As of October 14th, 2021...

Asians = 82.2% Vaccinated (1.2 Million people)
American Indians = 76.9% Vaccinated (21,228 people)
Whites = 73.0% Vaccinated (2.5 Million people)
Latinos = 63.6% Vaccinated (4.1 Million people)
Blacks = 55.5% Vaccinated (725,000 people)

Age 65-79 = 97.2% Vaccinated
Age 18-29 = 70.8% Vaccinated

Women continue to be about 5% more vaccinated than men.

So the statistical person in LA County most likely to be unvaccinated and thus prevented from accessing public accomodations this fall would be a young, Black, male. Second place goes to a young, Latino, male. Most likely to be vaccinated in LA is an older, Asian, female; she can waltz right in to Universal Studios like she owns the joint!

LA County COVID-19 Vaccine Dashboard - LA County Department of Public Health

publichealth.lacounty.gov

Sure.

 

[Disney Irish]

So when a middle class white person consciously decides to not get vaccinated, that's bad and we should make fun of them and blame Fox News?

But when a working class non-white person consciously decides to not get vaccinated, that's not bad and we should all listen respectfully to the reasons they have for making that concscious decision?

Got it. But I still think that's odd. And I'm not going to pretend I feel otherwise.

Nope, this is your narrative not the reality. Context matters, something you leave off in most of your posts.

The facts and data really do seem to bother some folks here. I find that fascinating.

Again this is your narrative, not the reality. I don't think ANYONE here is bother by the facts when context is used. But just using data without context is whats bothersome, which is what you do all the time. You paint this picture without the actual context which makes a WHOLE difference in how you're presenting the data.

For the record, it's an evening cocktail. I just don't like alcohol when the sun is up. This time of year cocktail time happens around 6:15pm, but it's getting earlier by the day as the sun sets earlier and earlier.

Excuse me for getting your drinking time incorrect.