Project Gemini Revealed

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by Raidermatt
If there are any doctors reading this, they probably just fell out of their chair. I'm pretty sure every height restricted ride also contains warnings against pregnant women riding, as well as those with other health problems or back trouble.

Further, there are people for whom its not a case of allowing themselves to have a little fun. The effects of coasters as tame as Space Mt and Big Thunder can cause dizziness and nausea in otherwise normal, healthy people. Remember, there are people who can't handle being on a boat because of the motion.
Indeed... but just like there are people who don't want to ... or can't experience thrill rides... there are JUST as many who simply WON'T ride something boring and dated. If your logic holds true.. then why are ALL the thrill rides without a doubt the most popular rides at WDW? Why aren't there more people riding The Land instead of Test Track? All disney had to do was look at Tower of Terror, The Mountains and Test Track to notice that the rides that are thrilling are the rides that are drawing all the crowds! It would seem stupid to not add more of these to increase attendance.
 

JasonCajun

New Member
You know, I watched a Universal Studios vacation planning tape last night and I have come to this conclusion, Disney does need more thrill rides to be able to compete with Universal Studios for the thrill seekers.

I love thrill rides myself, I appreciate Six Flags and other parks like it for what they are. But what makes WDW special is that their parks are themed and detailed so well that it transports you to another place or time. Disney parks also have a soul, especially Epcot. It has done more than try to thrill you, but give you a glimpse of the future and educate you about technology and the problems we face today.

The whole changing of Epcot, I am afraid, would cause Disney to lose its "soul" in this area. Updates are need, I agree. A new ride or two would not hurt if they are themed properly. I certainly do not think they should associate the Little Mermaid with the Sea. Epcot never ever has been about the characters here. THats one of the great things about it, it has been Disney without relying on the characters from Disney. Thats becasue Disney is much more than characters and thrills, its about imagination, the future, the past and the world we live in, especially Epcot.

Disney imagineers have a real challenge ahead of them. They have stricter guidelines to follow than those at Universal or other parks. The outdoor coaster bothers me. It really does not belong in Epcot. Animal Kingdom would be better suited for it. Take out that horrible Dino-Rama and put a coaster there if you like, but by all sakes theme it. If I wanted to see bare bones coasters, I would go to Six Flags. Its only 4 hours away as opposed to 12 at Disney and much much cheaper.

Something keeps people coming back to WDW instead of those other parks. Lets just hope the imagineers and powers that be at Disney do not lose sight of that,
 

Bayou_Tigerfan

New Member
If there are any doctors reading this, they probably just fell out of their chair. I'm pretty sure every height restricted ride also contains warnings against pregnant women riding, as well as those with other health problems or back trouble.

What you have done is state that if a ride has height restrictions, that pregnant women and those with back problems shouldn't ride. I actually think that most doctors would disagree with you and say that many height restricted rides are safe, even though WDW may post warnings to cover their butts in a potential lawsuit.

I think that some of you should start a thread complaining about Goofy's Barnstormer. According to the logic (or lack of it) that I consistently see displayed here, it:

  • is an outdoor coaster, so it automatically destroys all the "ambience" that makes WDW so special and sets it apart from Six Flags -- we obviously can't tolerate anything like that.
  • a height-restricted ride, and is therefore "tearing families apart" and ruining the experience of families at WDW
  • a ride that pregnant women and the elderly can't ride, and WDW shouldn't create rides that every single person can't ride -- that's blatantly unfair
  • is obviously destroying the attendance at the MK and everyone is now boycotting the MK in protest or going to other parks

Oh, wait ... you mean that the MK is still the most-attended theme park in North America? Goofy's Barnstormer hasn't destroyed the entire ambience of the park?

All of you who are so sure that the supposed "rainforest coaster" would be the end of EPCOT as we know it should actually think about this and not just reflexively attack it. I'm concerned about what it would look like myself, but I don't dismiss things out of hand.
 

Lee

Adventurer
Original Poster
I couldn't agree more.
Don't bash an idea, give it a chance to develop, see where it goes and what it becomes.
Have faith in WDI, their track record should earn them a little bit of trust.
 

JasonCajun

New Member
Goofy's Barnstormer is tucked away in a corner of the park that a lot of people do not even fool with unless they have children. It does not really bother me because it is out of the way. I am saying that the rainforest coaster does not belong in Epcot. If it belongs anywhere, it would be Animal Kingdom.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
i couldn't agree more, Jason! those were my thoughts exactly! and i agree with the roller coaster thing...they did really well with themeing Space Mountain and Big Thunder, and even RnRC...but i really don't see how they'd theme an inverted rainforest coaster. *shrugs* who knows? maybe they've got some kind of trick up their sleeves. let's just pray that if it gets a green light that it won't be another PW.
 

WDWGarden

New Member
The "Tree" issue...

I have to address this tree issue, since it is my thing... I am blown away at the backlash at trees! Keep in mind, gang, that Future World currently has hundreds of trees. The plan in the drawing is pretty much a complete redesign of the landscape...nearly every planter is changed. So it likely won't be adding 100s of trees to the existing. We're talking about around 150 acres. There's plenty of room for trees before approaching an AK jungle. Epcot is pretty concrete, which is a perfectly acceptable way to go, but green and lush is a much more educated vision of the future.

The hedge maze...This is the most quinessentially Epcot piece of the whole project! Looks like it is associated with the Imagination pavillion. A hedge maze requires critical thinking, problem solving, and trial-and-error experimentation...all concepts that require to use your IMAGINATION! This is an entertaining way to instill a core Epcot value on guests...GOOD STUFF!!

One thing I noticed about the drawing that I don't think has been mentioned...The granite graveyard at the main entrance is GONE!!! I dare anyone to be unhappy about that!
 

darthdarrel

New Member
Originally posted by AndyMagic
Indeed... but just like there are people who don't want to ... or can't experience thrill rides... there are JUST as many who simply WON'T ride something boring and dated. If your logic holds true.. then why are ALL the thrill rides without a doubt the most popular rides at WDW? Why aren't there more people riding The Land instead of Test Track? All disney had to do was look at Tower of Terror, The Mountains and Test Track to notice that the rides that are thrilling are the rides that are drawing all the crowds! It would seem stupid to not add more of these to increase attendance.
Umm your logic lacks!
The most popular rides at Disney are in NO way thrill rides! To date the rides that are the most popular are The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the carribean and splash mountain,How are they thrill rides? That being said I love thrill rides I`m a big coaster fan!:D
 

Fido

Member
Re: The "Tree" issue...

Originally posted by WDWGarden
One thing I noticed about the drawing that I don't think has been mentioned...The granite graveyard at the main entrance is GONE!!! I dare anyone to be unhappy about that!

Well I imagine anyone that payed for a 'legacy' would be the first to complain. :lol:
 

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by darthdarrel
Umm your logic lacks!
The most popular rides at Disney are in NO way thrill rides! To date the rides that are the most popular are The Haunted Mansion and Pirates of the carribean and splash mountain,How are they thrill rides? That being said I love thrill rides I`m a big coaster fan!:D
Firstly... Splash Mountain DOES have a thrill aspect to it and many people don't ride it because they are scared of the drop. Yet no one complains about that ride and how it "isn't for the whole family"?? Secondly... the other rides are the most popular because they have been around for decades and are the quintisential disney rides. Technically speaking... It's a Small World is more "Popular" than Tower of Terror but it isn't the ride bringing in the crowds.
 

darthdarrel

New Member
Originally posted by AndyMagic
Firstly... Splash Mountain DOES have a thrill aspect to it and many people don't ride it because they are scared of the drop. Yet no one complains about that ride and how it "isn't for the whole family"?? Secondly... the other rides are the most popular because they have been around for decades and are the quintisential disney rides. Technically speaking... It's a Small World is more "Popular" than Tower of Terror but it isn't the ride brining in the crowds.
WEll you just made my point!:D
Now as far a tower of terror,Yes it is popular and so is rockin roller coaster and Star tours,they are all great rides:animwink: But as far as rides go that`s all that MGM has and The great movie ride is just as popular if not MORE popular.Most of MGM is Shows,So ofcourse they are going to be popular.
 

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by darthdarrel
WEll you just made my point!:D
Now as far a tower of terror,Yes it is popular and so is rockin roller coaster and Star tours,they are all great rides:animwink: But as far as rides go that`s all that MGM has and The great movie ride is just as popular if not MORE popular.Most of MGM is Shows,So ofcourse they are going to be popular.
By popular, I didn't mean just in MGM I meant in all of WDW. Also to say that The Great Movie Ride is more popular than RNRC or TOT is laughable. I have friends who have never even been to Disney World that know about TOT and I can assure you they have NO clue what The Great Movie Ride is.
 

darthdarrel

New Member
Originally posted by AndyMagic
By popular, I didn't mean just in MGM I meant in all of WDW. Also to say that The Great Movie Ride is more popular than RNRC or TOT is laughable. I have friends who have never even been to Disney World that know about TOT and I can assure you they have NO clue what The Great Movie Ride is.
Well in all of Disney the most popular rides are The Haunted Mansion,Pirates of the carribean,splash mountain and It`s a small world. and those aren`t thrill rides by any stretch of the imagination!:lol:
And slash mountain has what? one big hill!:D
What I`m trying to say is that if you want thrill rides go to Universal,but Disney is a THEME park! I love thrill rides,but I don`t go to Disney for the thrill rides! I go there for rides like The Haunted Mansion,which,by the way is my all time favorite Ride!:D
 

bmxviper02

New Member
um ok i like nature and all but u no thats animal kingdoms job(my fav park) but wth why do they wanna make hundreds of trees.. thats just stupid i like the future aspect of epcot with the concrete and metal and stuff... why do they want to make a jungle...i mean it makes no sense if they r gonna use this idiotic idea to even finish mission space cuz it has nothing to do wit nature and neither does epcot.. why dont they just make a new land in AK with these ideas... and whats the point of switching living seas with LITTLE MERMAID!....-.-....and spaceship earth is a good ride... i mean how the heck can u have a thrill ride in a big metal ball...makes no sense...at all i hate this idea and i hope it never happens.. also i have a legacy pic and i think they add a good touch to epcot.. and im 14 and i dont think its boring.. if u want thrills go to Universal.. i like universal,IOA, and disney all the same and epcot has mission space and test track for thrill rides.. isnt that good enough:brick:
 

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by darthdarrel
Well in all of Disney the most popular rides are The Haunted Mansion,Pirates of the carribean,splash mountain and It`s a small world. and those aren`t thrill rides by any stretch of the imagination!:lol:
And slash mountain has what? one big hill!:D
What I`m trying to say is that if you want thrill rides go to Universal,but Disney is a THEME park! I love thrill rides,but I don`t go to Disney for the thrill rides! I go there for rides like The Haunted Mansion,which,by the way is my all time favorite Ride!:D
You say "if you want thrill rides go to Universal"... alas... this is what people have been doing and this is why Disney is adding more thrill rides! I don't understand why you stress that Disney is a THEME park and therefore can't have thrills! Apparently only amusement parks have thrill rides. :rolleyes: We can't have themed thrill rides!?!!? :hammer: Also.. do you have some sort of popular guage that you are using?? Disney researches all of this stuff constantly and they wouldn't be adding something to the parks that the general public won't enjoy.
 

MKCustodial

Well-Known Member
Originally posted by AndyMagic
You say "if you want thrill rides go to Universal"... alas... this is what people have been doing and this is why Disney is adding more thrill rides! I don't understand why you stress that Disney is a THEME park and therefore can't have thrills! Apparently only amusement parks have thrill rides. :rolleyes: We can't have themed thrill rides!?!!? :hammer: Also.. do you have some sort of popular guage that you are using?? Disney researches all of this stuff constantly and they wouldn't be adding something to the parks that the general public won't enjoy.

I really think they emphasize what is more profitable rather than what makes Guests happier on those researches, but that's just me.
 

darthdarrel

New Member
Originally posted by AndyMagic
You say "if you want thrill rides go to Universal"... alas... this is what people have been doing and this is why Disney is adding more thrill rides! I don't understand why you stress that Disney is a THEME park and therefore can't have thrills! Apparently only amusement parks have thrill rides. :rolleyes: We can't have themed thrill rides!?!!? :hammer: Also.. do you have some sort of popular guage that you are using?? Disney researches all of this stuff constantly and they wouldn't be adding something to the parks that the general public won't enjoy.
Um ya right! Then what was with that journey into your imagination rehab that took figment out? Noone liked that! It was a bomb,that`s why they put figment back in!:hammer:
 

Raidermatt

Active Member
Indeed... but just like there are people who don't want to ... or can't experience thrill rides... there are JUST as many who simply WON'T ride something boring and dated.
Once again....EPCOT IS STAGNATING!!!!

Nowhere have I said that Epcot should stay as it is, with no changes or updates. I've said it earlier in the thread, and I'll say it again....Epcot needs updating, it needs an infusion of energy. It has been neglected for far too long.

So, now, can we get beyond the "boring and dated" arguement, since we all seem to agree something needs to be done?

If your logic holds true.. then why are ALL the thrill rides without a doubt the most popular rides at WDW? Why aren't there more people riding The Land instead of Test Track?
When was the last time Disney built a non-physical-thrill attraction of the scope of rides like Test Track, Tower of Terror, or Rock 'n' Roller Coaster?

You're comparing modern thrill attractions to 20 and 30+ year old non-physical-thrill attractions.

Disney's recent efforts at non-physical thrill attractions have been extremely limited over the last 10-15 years or so. They've done 3D movies, which have been very successful. They've also done Kilamanjaro Safaris, which is one of the most popular attractions in AK.

However, its harder to thrill people with creativity and imagination than it is to thrill them by turning them upside down, and today's Disney loves to take the easy way... (look at DCA, animated sequels, the programming of Millionaire, etc.)


What you have done is state that if a ride has height restrictions, that pregnant women and those with back problems shouldn't ride.
I have stated what the warnings on the rides themselves say. I didn't make this up. It's not MY opinion. Further, if you ask a doctor what rides a pregnant women should avoid, they will recommend you at least follow the warnings provided.

All of you who are so sure that the supposed "rainforest coaster" would be the end of EPCOT as we know it should actually think about this and not just reflexively attack it. I'm concerned about what it would look like myself, but I don't dismiss things out of hand.
What was it about my comments that have been reflexive and out of hand? What have I not explained? Further, where have I said a rainforest coaster would be the end of Epcot? The truth, in fact, is that I said Project Gemini as it stands would be better than doing nothing. In other words, its a positive, not a negative.

My problems with it are that it is a CONTINUATION of Disney's near abandonment of significant, family-inclusive attractions. The concept of family-inclusive entertainment was the primary reason behind the building of Disneyland in the first place. Disney has slowly moved away from that concept over the last 20 years or so. Now, they are beginning to pay for this move, and it doesn't look like they are learning anything. They are losing the differentiation between themselves and the Universals of the world because they have chosen to compete in a realm (physical thrills) that many others have proven very capable of succeeding in.

In the process, Disney will lose ground in the area where they have been the unquestioned leader, which is again, family inclusive entertainment. They are providing very little in the way of new attractions for this group because they have slashed their investement in existing parks, and what investment they do have is targeted at other groups.

Earlier in this thread, someone mentioned being an economics major. I suggest asking your profs about the wisdom of a market leader in a high margin segment choosing to use its capital to go after a more competitive, and therefore lower margin, segment. You see, it takes far less talent to provide physical thrills with coasters and such. Therefore, more companies do it. With more competition comes lower margins. Further, thrill-seekers, ON AVERAGE, spend less on other things like food and souvenirs than families. Of course there is overlap between the groups, but when you look at who Disney loses by focusing on thrill rides vs. who they will gain, they will be losing the higher spending group.

You may disagree with my assessment, but I don't think its fair to call it out of hand or reflexive.
 

Dizknee_Phreek

Well-Known Member
once again, Raidermatt, i agree completely with you! you're entirely right that Disney has drifted from the 'family' attractions for quite some time (at least those of quality) and have been conforming to the trend of thrill rides (not entirely, i know, but there are a lot more in the parks than what there used to be, and Disney keeps making theirs wilder and wilder) if they keep this going, they may lose some major bucks in the long run! PG may answer SOME problems, but i honestly think it'll just create new ones. and i'm afraid that if they go through with PG that it'll prove to be more irreversable than if they went with a little more subtle updates.
 

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