Possilbe New Resorts in the Epcot/DHS area

P_Radden

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
How about something along these lines @marni1971 @lazyboy97o ?
DHS N Resort 2.png


EDIT: I guess technically they could put a new water park in this spot
 
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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Also, DHS is going to be a mad house once SWL opens. I have my doubts that the land they are building is too small to hold the number of guest in that area. In my opinion, they will be a need for expansion the day it opens.

It is guaranteed to be too small. Look at what happened when the first PotterLand opened: Huge lines just to get into the land, let alone experience any of the attractions.

The only way to avoid that is for WDW to do some extreme things like allowing only DVC and AP holders in the first week to get them out of the way. Or making the attractions FP-only at first. Will they? <shrug>
 

HauntedMansionFLA

Well-Known Member
It is guaranteed to be too small. Look at what happened when the first PotterLand opened: Huge lines just to get into the land, let alone experience any of the attractions.

The only way to avoid that is for WDW to do some extreme things like allowing only DVC and AP holders in the first week to get them out of the way. Or making the attractions FP-only at first. Will they? <shrug>
Or start to offer special events much like MNSSHP or MVMCP. Just like the SWW but have to pay extra $$$$ to attend at night.
 

JoeCamel

Well-Known Member
Weird unrelated anecdote - when we got home, my friend Hansel, claims that I inadvertently consumed several tabs of acid he had set out next to an hors d'oeuvre plate. Apparently, they were left over from college and he set them out as a bit of a conversation piece at a bon voyage social event for us. He maintains that a long string of mozzarella dangled down from my fried mozzarella stick and as I sucked it back into my gaping maw I didn't notice the tabs of paper stuck to it. I don't see how that is possible though. I felt fine all week.


I have no doubt that anecdote is completely true :rolleyes::joyfull::cry:
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
Praying there is no Star Wars resort. Resorts shouldn't be that specifically themed to an IP.

Why not? There are literally millions of people that would stay at a Star Wars resort. Its actually a worse idea to NOT build a Star Wars resort. Can any other IP support an entire resort? Maybe not. Can Star Wars? Absolutely.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
So my thoughts on this for what it's worth the recent for sure announcements coupled with this stuff seems to fly in the face of recent marketing strategy. As I see it lately disney has been willing to accept slightly lower attendance and slightly lower occupancy rates in turn for more profit per guest (through increased costs and more raw guest spending) With that said why add all these rooms ? Sure some will likely be DVC but there's still alot of new rooms here even with the smallest logical resorts as baselines. Wouldn't this compound occupancy drop? Sure if HS is saved and EPCOT revamped as well as Pandora attendance will spike but I don't think they are short on rooms for those spikes. Especially if pricing is moderate and higher.

Any thoughts?
I don't know what they do or don't do on the books but THEY DO close buildings from time to time when resort demand is low to save costs. (Don't put guests in them ect) and obviously they have turned regular rooms into DVC. That's some level of manipulation.
The occupancy has actually been really strong lately. I went through the numbers in the 10K in another thread and they show a pretty healthy year over year growth in actual rooms occupied which cannot be manipulated by taking rooms out of service.
I'm gonna go all @ParentsOf4 and drop some numbers from the 2016 10K in here to try to see how much playing with the numbers impacts the movement in occupancy.

Per the 10K:
  • Domestic theme park attendance was down 1%
  • Domestic hotel occupancy was up year over year from 87% to 89%
  • 2016 available room nights = 10,382,000
  • 2015 available room nights = 10,644,000
  • 2016 occupied room nights = 9,240,000 (10,382,000 X 89%)
  • 2015 occupied room nights = 9,260,000 (10,644,000 X 87%)
Based on this information the actual number of occupied rooms is pretty close to flat year over year. So while attendance is down 1% they did sell about the same number of hotel rooms (technically it was down 0.2%).

Now if we look at the decrease in available room nights it's approximately 700 rooms taken out of service for the full year. A portion of those are probably at Wilderness Lodge as they are being converted to DVC. The rest are just out of service for other reasons. I think BC/YC had a pretty major refurb in 2016 so that could be part of it too. They definitely could also be playing with the numbers here and boosting occupancy by taking rooms out of service.

Edit: It was brought to my attention that there were 53 weeks in fiscal year 2015 vs the standard 52 in 2016 which probably explains the bulk of the decrease in both attendance and available room nights.

To be exact if you take the weekly run rate for 2105 and convert that to a standard 52 week year (total divided by 53 multiplied by 52) the available rooms nights in 2015 would have been 10,433,000 and the occupied room nights would have been 9,085,000.

In another thread recently @ParentsOf4 posted this:
In case anyone wonders why Disney is adding hotel room capacity:

View attachment 190279
And this:
DVC is included in the occupancy reported by Disney and is counted as "two-bedroom equivalents". This means that DVC inflates the occupancy number but since DVC accounts for only about 11% of Walt Disney World rooms (because they are counted as 2-bedrooms), the effect is modest, typically 1 or 2%. Disney does this because counting DVC as 2-bedrooms helps with the important Per Room Guest Spending (PRGS) metric.

Converting hotel rooms to DVC skews the numbers to the extent that those rooms are taken out of service for extended periods of time. The current conversion at the Wilderness Lodge is skewing the numbers by roughly another 1%, since there are fewer "available room nights" during the conversion.

At any one time, Disney also has another 4% or so of rooms out of service, thus not counted as available room nights. Given the age of most Disney resorts, it's understandable that some rooms need servicing or remodeling at any one time.

Don't let these numbers mislead you. At the moment, Orlando area hotel occupancy is strong, with both Disney and Universal looking to add hotel/timeshare rooms.

The risk is that both are building during a boon. Orlando tourism is sensitive to economic downturns and another recession is sure to hit eventually. Disney's plan to open Star Wars Land will help. As Universal demonstrated when it opened the first Wizzarding World of Harry Potter, vacationers still come if you have a truly exciting product. If Disney creates an outstanding Star Wars Land, it should be a hit no matter what the economic situation, keeping hotel occupancy strong (even if Disney has to offer some discounts).

Disney's hotel costs are relatively fixed. A hotel occupancy rate of (say) 70% would be a financial disaster for Disney. Even immediately after 9/11, when tourism plummeted and Disney closed hotel rooms, occupancy bottomed out at 76%. Conversely, profits soar when occupancy hits 90%. Remember, when occupancy is low, it means there are bad things going on in the economy, meaning that Disney has to offer discounts to reach (for example) that 76%. When times are good, occupancy goes up and there are fewer discounts, meaning more rooms are occupied at a higher price, which is why it's so profitable. When you consider all the factors in evaluating hotel occupancy, there really is a narrow band between financial success and failure.

"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. " ;)
Based on all of this, even if the occupancy number is reduced by 4 to 5% by taking rooms out of service or DVC conversions it's still a healthy number above 85% occupancy. The thinking that hotel occupancy was suffering but being masked by manipulation is largely untrue. The truth is they simply don't have enough hotel rooms today and you can bet demand will grow even stronger with Pandora and Star Wars opening soon too.

If you look at what they are doing so far they are adding DVC to CBR and some addition higher end rooms to CSR. The focus is definitely on drawing in more per room money. They won't be adding more All Stars anytime soon. The parks will also get more crowded with these new additions so that makes perks like EMHs and advanced FP+ bookings even more valuable. If you go to see Star Wars Land when it opens you want to make sure you get on the new rides.
 

Kamikaze

Well-Known Member
I believe Disneyland's new resort is on the high end as required by the tax incentives helping to finance it. A Star Wars theme likely wouldn't qualify it as upscale.

I was trying to find a way to put this. A Star Wars resort would of course be extremely themed, but that doesn't make it 'upscale'.
 

csmat99

Well-Known Member
Not happening as things stand.

Any new resort that may or may not happen will be north of the park.
I think that is sad and shortsighted. Let's be honest the American part of WS is the worst of all the areas. It's basically a bad QS restaurant and a gift shop. I was born and raised in Philly and they could of done some much more in this area. Putting a premium resort that would be attached directly to WS and give the ability to fix this area would be amazing. And as other poster has mentioned to be able to just look out of your room and see Illuminations every night would be worth the price.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
I think that is sad and shortsighted. Let's be honest the American part of WS is the worst of all the areas. It's basically a bad QS restaurant and a gift shop. I was born and raised in Philly and they could of done some much more in this area. Putting a premium resort that would be attached directly to WS and give the ability to fix this area would be amazing. And as other poster has mentioned to be able to just look out of your room and see Illuminations every night would be worth the price.
Not to get this thread off topic but have you ever actually seen the American Adventure?
 

csmat99

Well-Known Member
Not to get this thread off topic but have you ever actually seen the American Adventure?
Yes. But I'm not going to get excited about a movie only need to see it once. I want the whole place to be themed. I mean seriously why would they think it was a good idea to put a bad cafeteria style QS restaurant there? Oh and bathrooms on each side of main building. It's basically a glorified rest stop in middle of WS.
 

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