WEDway Inc & Company LLC
Well-Known Member
Actually, I think California has more. Or at least they did.
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Possible Frontierland expansion
- Thread starter doctornick
- Start date
Actually, I think California has more. Or at least they did.
Being generous in counting anything that might be considered a ride as an actual 'ride,' and supposing all the announced rides get built, and you don't discount rides that are closed for a major refurb, Orlando will be two up on Anaheim. Certainly a handful more Es.
Now, if people want to quibble about not counting this or that for whatever reason... then, good luck. That's a rabbit hole of distinctions.
Orlando needs a Ferris wheel.
Also, check out the Simulators row. Almost all the SCREENZ! rides are in that category. Wow, so many SCREE... oh, wait.
jt04
Well-Known Member
While I do enjoy the idea of the parade traveling through Fantasyland, it would almost surely necessitate the removal of the Mad Tea Party. I cannot see that decision being made without it being relocated and I can't envision a space to move it to unless they finally admit that Storybook Circus is a bust. Similarly, the space behind the gate would require significant reconfiguration as there is not nearly enough space for parade staging. I'm not saying it can't be done, but I believe it is 99.9% unlikely. Sorry to be a party pooper.
I'm not. Unless I'm mistaken, this is the project that resulted in the loss of TSI, infill of much of the river, and the permanent docking of the Liberty Belle. I also believe this had something to do with the Lone Ranger movie that failed spectacularly.
Yes, it would take reconfiguring the access road behind MK, reimagining Storybook Circus pad, adjusting the RoA (similarly to what DL just did) and moving the Tea Cups ride system. All could be done for reasonable amounts of money.
Then give Imagineering free reign to connect the dots.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Long term guest satisfaction. Hard to keep WDW viable generation after generation if you let the parks become too crowded. So either expansion or a 5th gate are necessary in the next decade. IMO.
An MK expansion would work best if DAK also gets a new E ticket. All of this is still much cheaper than a 5th gate.
Just my opinion of course.
nickys
Premium Member
What does an MK expansion have to do with AK getting another ride?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Oh please...if you keep going as they turn the price screws on you...that incentive is null and void
Dudn’t
jt04
Well-Known Member
Because if you are going to add new content to the MK it is going to draw even larger crowds. Compelling content at the other 3 parks helps mitigate overcrowding at MK. I am sure all the new attractions at DHS is helping with crowds at MK for example.
Further, IMO, DAK is short on attractions and needs a new land (and anchor E ticket) to compete for crowds with the other 3 WDW parks.
SplashJacket
Well-Known Member
Because if you are going to add new content to the MK it is going to draw even larger crowds. Compelling content at the other 3 parks helps mitigate overcrowding at MK. I am sure all the new attractions at DHS is helping with crowds at MK for example.
Further, IMO, DAK is short on attractions and needs a new land (and anchor E ticket) to compete for crowds with the other 3 WDW parks.
All 4 WDW parks need more attention past the current wave of expansion.
With what appears to be the start of a long-lasting recession, Disney's crowd problem may become temporarily fixed. Good thing Disney has the expansion in place to draw people during a recession.
However, if we ignore the economics of it all. MK should get more expansion than the other parks. The park is in desperate need of new capacity. A new show, parade, 2-3 high-capacity Es, and a couple of lower ticket attractions would do the park wonders. It would bring the park up to being the best in the world which is needed for the highest attended park in the world. What I described is a complete fairytale, but a man can dream!
It does not make sense to do that level of expansion in a good time when guests happily come through the gates. A huge expansion to MK would indeed bring more guests through the gates, but the return on investment is less the more they would do. If they could build more and more attractions in MK to attract all the more people, wouldn't you think they would do it?
It makes more sense to add something flashy like Tron, even if it does not add that much capacity to the park, but in bad times it will bring more people through the gate.
I never thought I would say this in my life but JT is at least partly correct.
MK is going through a situation you commonly see with highways in civil engineering called induced demand. This, in a nutshell, is a state where any expansion increases demand equal to or past the capacity of the expansion. At best this does nothing to fix the problem. At worst, it makes the problem worse.
Right now MK would be best served by expansion at the other three parks.
SplashJacket
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree, but only to an extent. Building one or two new attractions would increase attendance, but each new thing added the return is less and less.
Galaxy's Edge, while successful, is below expectations, or at least it was, not sure if things have changed that dramatically. The reality of the situation is only so many people can fork over so many thousands of dollars to go the most Magical Place on Earth, there is a limit on how many people will come regardless of how much Disney builds. The more attractions that are built, more people will come, but if you build a ton of new stuff all at once it gets far less of an impact compared to multiple spread out throughout years.
There is a threshold that would make spending a day at MK bearable again, it requires a lot more than a small amount of expansion (i.e. Tron), but its by no means realistic.
The sub discussion on MK overcrowding and it's relation to expanding Frontierland is an interesting sidetopic when one considers that many guests actually avoid visiting Tom Sawyer Island to pursue other rides and attraction. I bring this up because an argument could be made (albeit not a great one) that adding a new attraction or three to TSI would be a net gain for MK as it would direct guests to this area that would have otherwise skipped it. More guests over there is less guests at Big Thunder, etc. It's still a short term gain but a gain to MK nonetheless.
We know that, but given the billions being spent on DHS (net expansion of one) and Epcot (debatable on any real expansion) the company has balance sheets of money flooding out so it must all be good.
You know I have long had an issue with this. Most of the "expansion" is nothing more than replacement. Sure, the new stuff will be more popular and will draw more guests, but the capacity of the park tends to remain the same or just slightly better.
About the only real true expansion we have seen in quite some time is the Tron Coaster at MK. Everything else (Pandora, SW:GE, Guardians, Frozen, etc) have all been built on the ashes of other attractions and this makes me stabby. AK, Epcot, and DHS all need more attractions, not different ones.
Yep.
999th Happy Haunt
Well-Known Member
Rat is a true expansion too, right?
Correct. I have not been keeping tabs on Poppins, but if that comes to fruition then that would be considered expansion as well.
Technically you could take into account what’s been lost in Communicore and Innoventions over the years, and Wonders too. Plus attractions have gotten shorter. All this equals more people wandering around (or in the shops if fastpass got its way)
Park attraction capacity has technically gotten less whilst crowds have continued to grow.
Park attraction capacity has technically gotten less whilst crowds have continued to grow.
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IWant2GoNow
Well-Known Member
The shorter attractions is really what bothers me about some of the new additions/replacements over the years. I get attention spans aren't what they used to be however things like Horizons/MS, GMR/MMRR, old vs. current JII, Ellen/GotG, etc., really bother me the most out of anything park-wise that Disney has done. There used to only be a couple rides where you would have to wait an hour or more for a 2 minute experience, and those were fine. But now it feels all too commonplace and it saddens me.
Do you happen to know whether or not there are still Imagineers who want to create longer attractions or is this just the new Disney mandate now? Obviously they still have it in them given RotR has a fairly lengthy ride time from what I'm reading on here. But is there potential to get more attractions like this or are they going to be very few and far between?
WondersOfLife
Blink, blink. Breathe, breathe. Day in, day out.
Time for another moving theatre attraction. (Or that black box thing)
yensidtlaw1969
Well-Known Member
I don’t think the attention span argument even bears out in an age where we binge-watch entire seasons of television in one sitting. And as you say, no one struggles to maintain their attention over at Rise. The 15 minute long Pirates at Disneyland has kept people engaged for over 50 years.
If the content is good enough you can keep people’s attention. It costs money that Disney doesn’t often seem willing to spend anymore, but I think the idea that guests demand shorter experiences to keep up with their “waning attention spans” is a total fallacy. I think now more than ever guests crave experiences they can get lost in for extended periods of time.