Possible Frontierland expansion

Sage of Time

Well-Known Member
Well, Disney is "back" in the public eye. They've had numerous successful animated films, Pixar and Marvel Studios are both doing well, etc. When Disney is doing well, people are more likely to eye a vacation down there.

You're acting like they went away. Disney's been slipping to some degree, yes, but I don't think that really made people not consider a vacation. I think this is Disney simply waking up and realized they need to compete with a few parks down the road....



Im just going to drop this here...
View attachment 100998
The Rivers of America and Toms Sawyers Island do not have to be sacrificed for the sake of an expansion!

Including behind BTM. Long term but it is designated.
These two posts really illustrate exactly where this expansion should go. Don't use already utilized land for something new. ACTUALLY expand.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Your very rough math is very roughly correct. 1/3 developed, 1/3 left to develop, 1/3 never-to-be-developed.

That said, I think the capacity for expansion specifically as it relates to the theme parks is much more limited, not by space, but by time. I can't see them ever building beyond six days worth of attractions in the "core four" theme parks (i.e. excluding water parks and the like). That means a two-day MK, a two-day Epcot, a full-day DHS, and a full-day DAK. Anything beyond that doesn't make much sense because you're not going to attract a sufficiently significant number of new guests to justify the investment.

If they added that dreamed for 5th gate with Star Wars and other IPs, I could and would spend at least two days in that park....
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
If they added that dreamed for 5th gate with Star Wars and other IPs, I could and would spend at least two days in that park....
Most people probably would. But for many of them it would be at the expense of one of the other parks, so net zero gain. Vacation budgets and vacation time are relatively fixed.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
Most people probably would. But for many of them it would be at the expense of one of the other parks, so net zero gain. Vacation budgets and vacation time are relatively fixed.

Not mine. :D. So I'd have the park pretty much to myself. Sweet.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
You're acting like they went away. Disney's been slipping to some degree, yes, but I don't think that really made people not consider a vacation. I think this is Disney simply waking up and realized they need to compete with a few parks down the road....

I'm just going to say that the biggest dip in WDW attendance coincided with the biggest dip in both critical and commercial success for WDAS features. There were other factors, to be sure, but it's still something to think about.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
Your very rough math is very roughly correct. 1/3 developed, 1/3 left to develop, 1/3 never-to-be-developed.

That said, I think the capacity for expansion specifically as it relates to the theme parks is much more limited, not by space, but by time. I can't see them ever building beyond six days worth of attractions in the "core four" theme parks (i.e. excluding water parks and the like). That means a two-day MK, a two-day Epcot, a full-day DHS, and a full-day DAK. Anything beyond that doesn't make much sense because you're not going to attract a sufficiently significant number of new guests to justify the investment.
Well right now, it's (in terms of attractions)
MK - 1.25 days (1 9am-midnight day, 1 9am-1pm day... if you're not doing every single M&G and you know how to use FP+)
Epcot - 0.75 days (9am-5pm... should be done with every attraction if you do TT single rider, and FP+ for Soarin', MS, and SSE, and pick one up for Nemo or LwtL. I don't count alcohol guzzling over at World Showcase as enough for a full day ;))
AK - 0.75 days (if you do EVERYTHING and gets FP+ for 3-4 attractions)
DHS - 0.5 days (FP+ for TSMM, ToT, Star Tours... single rider for RnRC, pick up a FP+ for GMR... see a couple shows... out of here now that OMD, Backlot, soon-to-be LMA/Mermaid, American Idol, Sounds, Captain Jack and Animation - all of the 'fluff' is either closed or soon will be closed)

The DHS overhaul should make the park a full-day affair - just will need some enhancements here and there.

The later operating hours (until 9pm or 10pm) will keep AK at 0.75 days - they'll still need to add a couple family dark rides, overhaul Dinoland (demo Dinorama), fix up Kali/Everest and possibly add a new land long down the road.

New Frontierland, a Tomorrowland overhaul/expansion, an Adventureland expansion and a B&TB dark ride (3 of the 4 are pure wishes... nothing more) would make MK 2 full 9am-12am days, even with FP+. But you could still do all of the headliners in 1-1.5 days - I say 2 because of things like Tiki Room, HoP, CoP, Country Bears, Laugh Floor, Philharmagic, etc.

Epcot unfortunately will only be 1 full 9am-9pm day of attractions if you bother to wait 3-4 hrs for Frozenstrom :p

So by 2021/2022
MK - 2 days
DHS - 1 day
AK - 0.75 days (once new 9pm or 10pm closing time starts)
Epcot - 0.75 days (unless you do Frozenstrom, then 1.25 days)

Only two parks will be full-fledged full-day parks... especially if the two Pandora attractions have 2,000+/hr capacity. I don't count 'eating/drinking around the world' as enough for a full day, way too expensive and ridiculous when you've already paid $100+ to get into the park... I'm only going by attractions (what most people go to the parks to do) with Epcot,

TDO is making progress, but there'll still be a long way to go unless Epcot gets a WoL revamp, and updates for Energy/Imagination in the near future. AK will be fine... it'll just need 5-7 more attractions slowly added over 15-20 yrs once Pandora is finished. Some big, some small.
 

mahnamahna101

Well-Known Member
I have to say a Frontierland expansion would be surprising. I'd welcome it, of course, depending on what they give us and what they (maybe) take away. I would think other areas (Adventureland/Tomorrowland) could/would get attention first but maybe their time is coming too. Tomorrowland has been getting fresh paint over time (the new color scheme around PeopleMover/Astro). But to them, Stitch and Buzz and Monsters can't really be seen as a priority, like we see them as. To me, I never go on any of them so Tomorrowland could use three new attractions, but that's me and not the majority. Adventureland could use a mountain. I'd rather they go with that first but again, that's me.

I'm also shocked if we get the Country Bear season overlays back.

What's going on at WDW? Just seems too good to be true, LOL. I'm not complaining at all, just very surprised by all of this.
Frontierland expansion makes the most sense, because it would have the least GA appeal.

Fire Mountain, a JttCotE clone or a Tomorrowland revamp would be too much of a draw. But a family dark ride in the back corner of the park with 2,000+/hr? Unless TDO advertises it like crazy, they could build behind Big Thunder without any guests really noticing.

You can't hide the big mountain behind Jungle Cruise/POTC ;) same with an E-ticket between Space Mt and CoP.

Building a high-capacity E-ticket that most guests don't even know about would be the most brilliant way to increase MK capacity at this point.
 

doctornick

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
That gives me a little hope for an original IP.

Someone brought up Pocohontas earlier in the thread, which would probably be the only thing that makes any sense (sorry Lone Ranger and Home on the Range fans). Of course, even Pocohontas doesn't really fit given that she was a colonial era figure on the east coast, not some 19th century Native American encountered as part of a western expansion of the US -- but it wouldn't surprise me to see WDI take liberties with that especially since Splash Mtn is right there in the middle of Frontierland.

That said, some sort of original concept for the park? Yes, please. Does the one living Sherman Brother still write songs?
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
Well right now, it's (in terms of attractions)
MK - 1.25 days (1 9am-midnight day, 1 9am-1pm day... if you're not doing every single M&G and you know how to use FP+)
Epcot - 0.75 days (9am-5pm... should be done with every attraction if you do TT single rider, and FP+ for Soarin', MS, and SSE, and pick one up for Nemo or LwtL. I don't count alcohol guzzling over at World Showcase as enough for a full day ;))
AK - 0.75 days (if you do EVERYTHING and gets FP+ for 3-4 attractions)
DHS - 0.5 days (FP+ for TSMM, ToT, Star Tours... single rider for RnRC, pick up a FP+ for GMR... see a couple shows... out of here now that OMD, Backlot, soon-to-be LMA/Mermaid, American Idol, Sounds, Captain Jack and Animation - all of the 'fluff' is either closed or soon will be closed)
Those times might be true if you're going full blitz during a season with long hours and only doing attractions. Throw a meal each at Liberty Tree, Be Our Guest, Via Napoli, Rose & Crown, Mama Melrose, and Kona over your week long stay and you're much closer to 2, 2, 1, and 1. Nobody tours like the way you outlined except for cast-as-guest and other locals. For example, World Showcase could take up the better part of a day by itself if you take time in the shops and watching the performers. I take it you don't. I usually travel for seven nights, six full park days. And I ALWAYS leave thinking "wow, I can't believe I missed X, Y, and Z."
 

Rodan75

Well-Known Member
Really? I seem to recall a nice quiet little space designed specifically for stopping and relaxing by the Tangled restrooms. That space is universally mocked and ridiculed around here.

On my last trip I noticed that those little stop and sit areas in Tomorrowland and Tangled are highly capitalized on with drink, ice cream and merchandise carts. So I think MK is profiting nicely from having a place to sit and wait. I don't understand why folks bash WDW for not having places to sit while also bashing the places to sit. So weird.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Someone brought up Pocohontas earlier in the thread, which would probably be the only thing that makes any sense (sorry Lone Ranger and Home on the Range fans). Of course, even Pocohontas doesn't really fit given that she was a colonial era figure on the east coast, not some 19th century Native American encountered as part of a western expansion of the US -- but it wouldn't surprise me to see WDI take liberties with that especially since Splash Mtn is right there in the middle of Frontierland.

Doesn't Pocohantas figure in too the Frontierland segments of Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom?

That said, some sort of original concept for the park? Yes, please. Does the one living Sherman Brother still write songs?

We're more likely to get Robert Lopez and Kristen Anderson-Lopez, given both the phenomenal success of Frozen and the fact that they've worked with the Disney Parks branch before with the Finding Nemo musical.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
On my last trip I noticed that those little stop and sit areas in Tomorrowland and Tangled are highly capitalized on with drink, ice cream and merchandise carts. So I think MK is profiting nicely from having a place to sit and wait. I don't understand why folks bash WDW for not having places to sit while also bashing the places to sit. So weird.

They complain about trees getting cut down all over the parks, and then complain about a tree over in Epcot that needs to be cut down! It's making the view of Spaceship Earth from the Japan pavilion asymmetrical or some such.
 

HolleBolleGijs

Well-Known Member
Those times might be true if you're going full blitz during a season with long hours and only doing attractions. Throw a meal each at Liberty Tree, Be Our Guest, Via Napoli, Rose & Crown, Mama Melrose, and Kona over your week long stay and you're much closer to 2, 2, 1, and 1. Nobody tours like the way you outlined except for cast-as-guest and other locals. For example, World Showcase could take up the better part of a day by itself if you take time in the shops and watching the performers. I take it you don't. I usually travel for seven nights, six full park days. And I ALWAYS leave thinking "wow, I can't believe I missed X, Y, and Z."

I was about to post something to this effect, but you said it better than me :)
 

Sage of Time

Well-Known Member
From the New WDW Roads thread.... COUGH COUGH COUGH.
Just speculating, but if they do this Floridian Way extension they could in theory remove the old Floridian way and open up some expansion room.

h9Co0K5.jpg
 

Sage of Time

Well-Known Member
I'm just going to say that the biggest dip in WDW attendance coincided with the biggest dip in both critical and commercial success for WDAS features. There were other factors, to be sure, but it's still something to think about.
There was also a large economic downturn. But yeah, I see your point. That said, WDW was still raking guests in.
 

RR 88

Member
Frontierland expansion makes the most sense, because it would have the least GA appeal.

Building a high-capacity E-ticket that most guests don't even know about would be the most brilliant way to increase MK capacity at this point.
While I agree with this, I'm afraid TDO would probably rather see an e-ticket bring in additional guests to meet the new capacity rather than better distribute their current guest numbers... but a fat man can still dream of wider walkways and less frenzied crowds!

It certainly helps that Disney doesn't have a Western IP that people really care about. No one's been clamoring for Home on the Range: The Ride, after all....
I was thinking more along the lines of The Lone Ranger's: Cannibal Canyon Catastrophe. With "She Drives me Crazy" playing in the queue.
 

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